So holy fuck, yes, any plans to invade storm country are premature, based of insufficient data, and incredibly optimistic.
Of course, thing is, before we do ANYTHING in Storm Country, we'll send our Spies and Scouts in to get a hang of it, as we have an Option to do. And, of course, the Opinions of many Questers may change depending on what they find.

I don't think anyone was saying we shouldn't do that.

I want to point out that our military is probably the least impacted by the enemy having black steel or orichalcum armor.
The real Reason we might want it is that we may encounter a hostile Faction with tons of Magic-Users sooner or later. And then we'll need all the Orichalcum we can get. Sombra was bad enough, and he was just ONE Magic-User, albeit a very powerful one.
 
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What happens if we run into Yetis wearing Black Steel?

of course we don't actually KNOW if they have black steel, or what they use the Orichalcum for. working it would likely require very advanced metallurgy, otherwise they'd be limited to use the raw material... maybe orichalcum fragments as anti-magic amulets, or, say, fill an "empty" wall with orichalcum fragments to make it resistant to magic? Maybe even just keep enough of it in a building so that magic stops working in it?

mh... it's interesting to think of ways to use orichalcum without the ability to actually work it, though they basically come down to "pile enough of it together to project an anti-magic aura.

The real Reason we might want it is that we may encounter a hostile Faction with tons of Magic-Users sooner or later. And then we'll need all the Orichalcum we can get. Sombra was bad enough, and he was just ONE Magic-User, albeit a very powerful one.
and on a side note, Orichalcum is one of very few possible solutions to the Discord problem if he ever gets free in quest-time. or any being even remotely comparable to him, really, like Tirek.
 
Afghanistan consistently forced the British to pour lives and treasure trying to hold it doesn't undermine my point at all.
Because frankly, the British never actually cared enough to spend enough at once. They kept trying to do it on a budget because, frankly, it wasn't that important.
And considering that Ethiopia lasted as long as it did
Again, plenty of places similarly mountainous that got ate up in the Scramble for Africa, you are AGAIN downplaying how much work the Ethiopians put in to making sure it was never actually a military fight between them and Europeans. And, in the few times when it was, there were Europeans who wanted to help Ethiopia for their own reasons. The first time the Ethiopians couldn't pull off getting Europeans on their side, Mussolini happened.
or the Kurds who even now are a problem in Iraq and Turkey
Mostly because other nations go "uhhh, No." when Iraq or Turkey try to pull cultural or actual genocide policies.
I said they're some of the hardest regions to conquer.
Frankly, I can point to specific examples of any given terrain being "some of the hardest to conquer", cherry picking does that.

More than terrain, what matters is the people.
So holy fuck, yes, any plans to invade storm country are premature, based of insufficient data, and incredibly optimistic.
...Who, exactly, has been saying "let's go invade the Yeti's next turn"?

I've seen plenty of "we should do that sometime" or "if there's that much orichalcum it'll be very useful to invade at some point", I don't think I've seen a single person going "Let's take all our dudes, turn right around, and go into Storm Country right now".
 
I want to point out that our military is probably the least impacted by the enemy having black steel or orichalcum armor.
I mean yes, but at that point- we're just dealing with abominable snowmen in stronger than steel chainmail hauberks or something- when we probably will have few cannons heavier than a swivel gun. Just because we'd be the least effected doesn't mean I'm fond of the idea of facing Yak-tier warriors in blacksteel when we don't have many heavy weapons available locally.
of course we don't actually KNOW if they have black steel, or what they use the Orichalcum for. working it would likely require very advanced metallurgy, otherwise they'd be limited to use the raw material... maybe orichalcum fragments as anti-magic amulets, or, say, fill an "empty" wall with orichalcum fragments to make it resistant to magic? Maybe even just keep enough of it in a building so that magic stops working in it?

mh... it's interesting to think of ways to use orichalcum without the ability to actually work it, though they basically come down to "pile enough of it together to project an anti-magic aura.
Lets not read into our own biases too much, they might not have black steel, but being 'primitive' doesn't mean your metal working is all the bad. Both the Celts and the Scandinavians had high quality metal working while everyone around them was calling them barbarians. Its not a given by any means, but we can't assume they can't use Orichalcum after all, they were mining it and sending it elsewhere- that implies they consider a valuable good for trade or tribute or what have you.

Because frankly, the British never actually cared enough to spend enough at once. They kept trying to do it on a budget because, frankly, it wasn't that important.
And why do we consider it important? Orichalcum is looking to become less important for us not more so, as we develop native magic, runes, and other technological means we're not going to be relying on elite knights with it quite so much. It's nice to have, but it's fundamentally going to have a cost in gold, lives, and maybe diplomatic goodwill to secure even a portion of the storm country, and it's a price we will have to pay so long as there are yetis and wild beasts in those hills.
Again, plenty of places similarly mountainous that got ate up in the Scramble for Africa, you are AGAIN downplaying how much work the Ethiopians put in to making sure it was never actually a military fight between them and Europeans. And, in the few times when it was, there were Europeans who wanted to help Ethiopia for their own reasons. The first time the Ethiopians couldn't pull off getting Europeans on their side, Mussolini happened.
And this assumes we'll have a free hand to wage a war on the Yetis while the Alicorns look on and how the Yaks have already demonstrated frustration that we may have agitated the yetis? None of this will happen in a vacuum, and while no one is going to ally with the yetis against us, that doesn't mean they will want to see us invading the yetis.
Mostly because other nations go "uhhh, No." when Iraq or Turkey try to pull cultural or actual genocide policies.
And this isn't applicable to us in fucking MLP? How are we going to keep restless locals in line here? Because our hand is going to be far more tied than Iraq or Turkey's ever were. This is just obtuse and a big part of why spaghetti posting is considered in bad faith- this argument refutes the ease of conquering the yetis the moment you consider the context we're operating in.
...Who, exactly, has been saying "let's go invade the Yeti's next turn"?

I've seen plenty of "we should do that sometime" or "if there's that much orichalcum it'll be very useful to invade at some point", I don't think I've seen a single person going "Let's take all our dudes, turn right around, and go into Storm Country right now".
We've literally got people trying to hatch plans when we know so little it's worse than useless. I've already talked at length I think we'll be committed elsewhere for quite some time, but there's consequences to all of this. Force recon alone could rile up the Yaks or the Yetis, and we don't even know what the local balance of power is.

I've never insisted anyone is arguing we go right this moment, but any calculus on the worthwhileness of trying to invade is on incredibly shaky ground and any attempt to dampen enthusiasm in the face of such adventurism runs into things like 'the awful weather, rough terrain, and the quite possible literally magical malignance of the environment is immaterial to whether we can conquer it- it's all about the people we'd be conquering' which runs into the fact that these are literal metal working warlike and xenophobic yetis with magic all their own.
 
Lets not read into our own biases too much, they might not have black steel, but being 'primitive' doesn't mean your metal working is all the bad. Both the Celts and the Scandinavians had high quality metal working while everyone around them was calling them barbarians. Its not a given by any means, but we can't assume they can't use Orichalcum after all, they were mining it and sending it elsewhere- that implies they consider a valuable good for trade or tribute or what have you.
oh,sure. and for all we know they might have special magics that actually work on it, or a volcanic forge, or any fantasy-like method to work it.

I'm just pointing out that, while they can mine it, it's not a given that they can use it as well as we do. And, on the other hand, it's possible (though not likely) that they might use it BETTER than us, or simply in different ways we didn't think of yet.
 
I don't see orichalcum becoming less important. Yes we are developing magical options of our own, but this stuff basically auto-nixed both sombra's mind control, and does a number on changeling disguises.

There is never enough of this stuff.
 
I don't see orichalcum becoming less important. Yes we are developing magical options of our own, but this stuff basically auto-nixed both sombra's mind control, and does a number on changeling disguises.

There is never enough of this stuff.
To add into this, getting more orichalcum means more and bigger experimentation. Who knows what its full potential is? I'm already picturing having several runes in a small area and using orichalcum to prevent their magic from disturbing each other. Orichalcum prisons to hold creatures like Tirek that eat magic. Could it have semi-conductive properties with magic so it can be used to make magical circuit boards? We don't know, but if we had more of it we could find out.

I can see it becoming less important in direct warfare if things happen like the real world and we stop using melee, but there are still black steel bullets to make. The other uses for it in industrial applications could be endless.
 
not to mention the security and scientific utility. Locks, safe rooms for doing dangerous magic in, just the fact that its stronger than steel, or research into why it blocks magic
any time you have magic users, you have magic conflicts, and a way to no sell magic is REALLY useful.
 
We've literally got people trying to hatch plans when we know so little it's worse than useless.
Because hatching plans is like, a third of what this thread does and at least two thirds of the time those plans are basically pie in the sky wishlists anyway.
And this isn't applicable to us in fucking MLP? How are we going to keep restless locals in line here? Because our hand is going to be far more tied than Iraq or Turkey's ever were. This is just obtuse and a big part of why spaghetti posting is considered in bad faith- this argument refutes the ease of conquering the yetis the moment you consider the context we're operating in.
Far more tied... really?

Here's what we know about the Yeti's, they are slavers who aren't against eating slaves. Beyond that we know nothing of their culture or whatever. Who exactly is going to say "Don't kill all the slaving cannibals and raise the kids to not be slaving cannibals"?

Also of course, there's the question of "Who is going to say that and then have the force projection to make it stick"?

Going more in depth in real world examples is basically garaunteed to result in Mod intervention so I'll just leave it at, look up "Uighur".
 
Before we go nuts we may want to talk some things out with Rutherford and Koryu about our foreign policy going forward. Clear the air after the maretonia and olenia things. Maybe set up a joint diplomatic office so we can avoid people loosing track of things like defense parts, and maybe let each other know ahead of time that we're doing that?
 
We've literally got people trying to hatch plans when we know so little it's worse than useless.

Because hatching plans is like, a third of what this thread does and at least two thirds of the time those plans are basically pie in the sky wishlists anyway.
Let's be real, is either this or we basically stop posting until the next update comes out.

Here's what we know about the Yeti's, they are slavers who aren't against eating slaves.
...WAIT, they are CANNIBALS?

...how did I forget that?!

Still, there's the "we only met ONE tribe" factor still there. we know ONE specific tribe was made up of cannibal slavers. Take the Yaks, they had MULTIPLE tribes before we met them, it could very well be that there's other less... hostile tribes to meet.

...which is, again, something we'll learn later on. Still, getting the support of a local tribe, maybe offer our support to have them conquer and unify the other ones, and then maybe promise wealth and power as a noble/duke in our empire... that's another possible approach to conquering Stormlands. We lack the data to actually say if it's feasible, but it's at least an interesting idea.

Before we go nuts we may want to talk some things out with Rutherford and Koryu about our foreign policy going forward. Clear the air after the maretonia and olenia things. Maybe set up a joint diplomatic office so we can avoid people loosing track of things like defense parts, and maybe let each other know ahead of time that we're doing that?
I think we mentioned some kind of international forum multiple times in the past few months. Especially since we met Equestria. I'm sure it will come up soon. With the possible exception of Equestria (and they could likely manage anyway, even without getting a passage on our airship) everyone should be able to reach a suitable meeting place (probably in our Empire, unless it's decided to hold it in a more "neutral" place for diplomatic reasons, like Neighpon or Libertalia)
 
I think we mentioned some kind of international forum multiple times in the past few months. Especially since we met Equestria. I'm sure it will come up soon. With the possible exception of Equestria (and they could likely manage anyway, even without getting a passage on our airship) everyone should be able to reach a suitable meeting place (probably in our Empire, unless it's decided to hold it in a more "neutral" place for diplomatic reasons, like Neighpon or Libertalia)
Meh, I find the whole "international forum" deal along with the fact that you guys seemingly want to turn every diplomatic confrontation or war into a giant summit of every country we know highly unnecessary. Like, you guys are anachronisticaly applying diplomatic conventions that don't exist. They had to be constructed for the modern world order OTL, and we don't really have much to gain in inventing them ourselves. Should we keep important fellow allies like Neighpon up to date if we both go to war with the same person? Sure, but that's not really anywhere near the scale of how every single conflict and potential conflict we talk about in this quest begins and ends with you guys going "War Summit of countries"
 
Well I don't think we should involve anyone else in the maretonia thing, it's overly complex already.

I mostly just want the big three to talk to each other more, and have a forum for making sure they don't freak out about the maretonia thing, and maybe make sure that everyone knows about the mutual defense pacts with everyone else so that we don't have issues.

Basically I consider the yaks and the Neighponese our most important allies, and the ones most likely to suck us into a WW1 type situation where all our treaties turn a minor conflict into a giant war.
 
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Omake: We Were Kings
Omake: We Were Kings.

A short speech to the Assembly of Aerial combat1​ regarding the rediscovery of the Griffon Empire, and their airships, given sometime after first contact.

"
We were kings.

For all of history we have ruled the skies, our only competitor; the Dragons2​. We were the best of the best, from our scouts to our mobile fortresses, none had the same power as us.

For millennia we have been the militant arm of the tribes. When Discord twisted the world to his whims, we were the first to respond, and we were the last to fall. With the founding of Equestria, and the banishment of Discord, we formed the first elite flight squadrons; the Wonderbolts and Shadowbolts3​.

We expected to have this be the way things were to be until the very end of time, for who else had the military tradition of the Pegasi? Who else could control the very skies?

No one, until now.

The Griffon Empire4​, a power rivalling Equestria. The Griffons have military traditions of generations, natural weapons in the form of beaks and talons, as well technology beyond what we thought was possible.

Many of you have seen their airships patrolling their borders, and most of you understand what this means in regards to the power of this Empire.I will not go on for long on the strength that these ships allow the Griffons to project, but it is important that you all know this; we no longer rule the skies.

The griffons can employ any number of previously ground bound emplacements on these warships, and our magic can be neutralized by their so-called Black Knights5​. Already we are hearing reports that they have killed Dragons, and destroyed a flying fortress.

It is crucial that we make peace with them, for we are outnumbered, and out armed. The only way we could retake our place at the top would be to acquire and copy their airships, and even then I believe they will have an edge.

We have lost an arms race we never knew we were a part of, and we will be playing catch up for a long time to come.

However, we still have a way to meet them on equal terms; our magic. While I did state that they have anti-magic capabilities, these are based on an unknown metal, as well as possessing little to no magic of their own.

As such I believe if we increase the amount of research done on potential applications of Pegasi magic, we may be able to meet them there.

We will never be able to meet the Empire's industrial output, but we will always have an edge in regards to magic, and we must lean into that if we are to ever become the kings of the sky once more.
"





1​ One of the councils of military leaders formed soon after Equestria's founding.

2 ​For most of history Pegasi have competed with the dragons for aerial supremacy, until the discovery of the Griffon Empire.

3 ​The elite flight squadron of the night guard, later absorbed into the Wonderbolts with the banishment of Nightmare Moon

4​ See; A history of the Griffon Empire.

5​ An elite order of knights, equipped with anti magic weaponry and armour.


Hm oh Equestria Pegasi reaction to the blimps and the empire
:)
Omake for you @Questor
 
Speaking of magical rune bullshit, it's expensive. How do we go about getting actions to farm some magic plants and crystals to make it less expensive?
 
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