you know I have to wonder if our griffin troll hunters will make their way to Equestria? I mean after we purged our homeland of most, if not all dangerous beast they kinda moved to Canterbury to help hunt down the dangerous beast there and from what I've heard have been doing a good job at it and kinda help win over the common citizen and even a few of the knight houses over there with their work improving relations between both our nations if only slightly. Since Equestria has the Everfree forest I could see some of our troll hunters heading over to see what they have to deal with even if they would probably be nothing more then pest patrol given how hesitant the Equestrians are to deal with their problems with violence but it could be seen as a cheap way for local lords to deal with wild beast without having to send their own levies after them or wait for the royal guard to show up. And if our troll hunters show up I love the idea that the empires red necks are the first impression most of the common citizens of pony nations get to see of the empire. I mean imagine what it must be like to learn of a new kingdom just off your boarder only to have crocodile Dundee pop up in your neighborhood claiming he's from said kingdom.
you know I have to wonder if our griffin troll hunters will make their way to Equestria? I mean after we purged our homeland of most, if not all dangerous beast they kinda moved to Canterbury to help hunt down the dangerous beast there and from what I've heard have been doing a good job at it and kinda help win over the common citizen and even a few of the knight houses over there with their work improving relations between both our nations if only slightly. Since Equestria has the Everfree forest I could see some of our troll hunters heading over to see what they have to deal with even if they would probably be nothing more then pest patrol given how hesitant the Equestrians are to deal with their problems with violence but it could be seen as a cheap way for local lords to deal with wild beast without having to send their own levies after them or wait for the royal guard to show up. And if our troll hunters show up I love the idea that the empires red necks are the first impression most of the common citizens of pony nations get to see of the empire. I mean imagine what it must be like to learn of a new kingdom just off your boarder only to have crocodile Dundee pop up in your neighborhood claiming he's from said kingdom.
Assuming the everfree forest is around yet. Not sure when it formed, but it seems like the original capitol is at the center of what would be known in canon as the everfree forest. Specifically the castle of two sisters. Which is also apparently the location of the canon nightmare moon incident.
MLP wiki said:
In the season four premiere, Princess Twilight Sparkle - Part 1, Twilight views a flashback in which the castle is in its prime. Unlike in Friendship is Magic, part 2, the throne room has two thrones instead of one. Within the flashback, Twilight witnesses Princess Luna destroy parts of the throne room and her transformation into Nightmare Moon.
In Princess Twilight Sparkle - Part 2, Nightmare Moon attacks Princess Celestia, destroying more of the throne room and much of the castle's surrounding architecture in the process. The Elements of Harmony are also shown, when Princess Celestia raises them up from a chamber underneath the throne room floor.
I will say for the future that you probably shouldn't link to real posts as it could confuse people. Just make fake posts by putting out the complete "[QUOTE ] [/QUOTE ] except with "[ Quote=Test name ]" on the first part and no spaces to make non-linked fake name posts.
NotQuestor said:
I hereby bequeath PyrrosWarrior with free unlimited rerolls on anything he so desires for the rest of this quest because he's cool and I like him.
Equestria Nega-verse 2
AN: I decided after reading the authors negaverse to try and make one of my own. This is based off the informational post on Griffon Cultural differences and some part are just slightly edited. I hope you all enjoy.
no other faction is in the industrial revolution. like we had : feudal japan, Nomads, Evil tyrant emperor, Arthurian England except it's all controlled by the changeling illuminati, pirates, vikings, greece, rome and now feudal europe with 2 god princesses running it. like equestria is the most interesting of the bunch IMO but they can't offer us much couse they run on magic.
we are industrial revolution germany.
Eh, their magic can offer a lot, though we can get at least the lower-hanging fruits from Maretonia and Canterbury. Equestria probably has more and better magical knowledge (mostly thanks to Starswirl's, Clover the Clever's, and the Unicorn Kingdom's ancient knowledge, or at least what survived of it from Discord's rule, AND two demigoddesses as rulers, but the average "mortal" level is probably not that much higher.
While in our quest most of our meetings didn't have any world changing events reveal, save Discord which we knew about OOC, this quest is having a major revelations of something that has totally reshaped the world. Not to mention Equstria quest has had no major wars meaning the fact their was a massive fantasy series level conflict going on in the background is shocking. The only comparable experience to ours is finding out about the changeling and we were paranoidly guessing that since turn 1. Seriously it isn't even an exaggeration we were literally speculating about changeling infiltrators since the first turn.
eh, we KNEW they were around because canon knowledge, but I think the first time we SERIOUSLY considered them was the mystery lady from the royal party, and the second time was when Brochard's treasury just disappeared into thin air.
On that note, if we didn't fail that "find the gold" action, we might very well have learned of Changelings and Canterbury before even Sombra... and who knows, maybe we could have managed an alliance against him. After all Sombra is the perfect enemy to ally against.
"JUST HOW GOOD ARE THE GRYPHON EMPIRE SPIES!?!?!?!?" - negaquest player after the reveal of the changeling spy games between griffonia and the changeling puppet religion, with the latter being unaware of said contest for most of the start.
Oh yeah! I don't disagree in the slightest. We might be better then them in some ways but they absolutely outrank us in other and are not to be discounted. They are certainly the closest thing to if not a peer power we have so far and their is a reason I would much prefer to maintain peaceful relations then ever fight them. The only reason I can see to ever be hostile Equestria would be a Nightmare Moon or Daybreaker situation and I hope that never happens.
1)Probably the best magics in the setting.
2)Two demigoddesses as leaders, ensuring continuous and stable rule.
3)Control of the sun, moon, stars (we STILL don't know what exactly those ARE in this world though...), making attacking them inadvisable unless you have a plan to move the celestial orbs in their place AFTER.
4)Access and some level of control to the dream realms. Not only this allows you a direct method to check on what currently ails your people (if everyone is having nightmares, that means there's a problem...), but it can also potentially be a very good method to spy on your enemies, depending on range. What if Luna could just check Pegicles' dreams, for example, and maybe even subtly influence him through them?
5)They're probably the strongest economy beyond us, though they likely struggle with mass production due to everything being magic-based.
6)Everyone loves them due to them having defeated Discord. Very stable kingdom.
7)canon implies Celestia might have some prophetic abilities. Fanon sometimes makes those explicit.
While we definitely aren't objectively better I would very much argue that for the average citizen of the Empire is happier, or at least has more opportunities, than the average citizen of Equestria
Most of the advantages Equestria has are innate ones from their race or the Princesses rather than a result of their government
mhh... I don't know. It's hard to generalize, because our people value different things, at least on some level. It's certainly possible that Equestrians are, in general, happier... but happiness is NOT the only valuable metric.
For example, I'd argue that while our people might be slightly less happy, they're also much safer. We're also likely more open to new ideas and cultures, due to all the different races we've met and allied with.
Assuming the everfree forest is around yet. Not sure when it formed, but it seems like the original capitol is at the center of what would be known in canon as the everfree forest. Specifically the castle of two sisters. Which is also apparently the location of the canon nightmare moon incident.
I think it's implied that the Everfree Forest was only born after Nightmare Moon, yes. If I had to guess it was either a consequence of Nightmare Moon, or Discord's Plunder-seeds weakening the Tree of Harmony.
Their 'army' is just the royal guard which is roughly equivalent to just ONE of our knight orders. In military situations they probably rely heavily on hero units like the Alicorn Sisters.
Their 'army' is just the royal guard which is roughly equivalent to just ONE of our knight orders. In military situations they probably really heavily on hero units like the Alicorn Sisters.
Especially at this point in time as I believe that both of them are the element wielders so not only do they have their alicorn powers they also have the friendship laser at their disposal.
1)Probably the best magics in the setting.
2)Two demigoddesses as leaders, ensuring continuous and stable rule.
3)Control of the sun, moon, stars (we STILL don't know what exactly those ARE in this world though...), making attacking them inadvisable unless you have a plan to move the celestial orbs in their place AFTER.
4)Access and some level of control to the dream realms. Not only this allows you a direct method to check on what currently ails your people (if everyone is having nightmares, that means there's a problem...), but it can also potentially be a very good method to spy on your enemies, depending on range. What if Luna could just check Pegicles' dreams, for example, and maybe even subtly influence him through them?
5)They're probably the strongest economy beyond us, though they likely struggle with mass production due to everything being magic-based.
6)Everyone loves them due to them having defeated Discord. Very stable kingdom.
7)canon implies Celestia might have some prophetic abilities. Fanon sometimes makes those explicit.
The issues there is that other than point 5 all of Equestria's advantages basically just stem from "They have the sisters" which makes it difficult to compare the pros and cons of the actual societies themselves
Hell you could even make an argument that the fifth point is also just due to the sisters since if it weren't for them Equestria probably wouldn't be as large as it is
mhh... I don't know. It's hard to generalize, because our people value different things, at least on some level. It's certainly possible that Equestrians are, in general, happier... but happiness is NOT the only valuable metric.
For example, I'd argue that while our people might be slightly less happy, they're also much safer. We're also likely more open to new ideas and cultures, due to all the different races we've met and allied with.
While I see where you're coming from I would still argue that the average Empire citizen might be happier just because they actually have options and the divide between them and the nobility is a lot smaller
For example if an Imperial noble decides to be a dick to the commoners, already less likely because our nobles have fought and died alongside the common folk, those commoners have way more options available to them, such as plenty of other places they could move to, a strong industry that makes relocating and finding a new job easier, the existence of a burgeoning middle class that allows them to basically ignore the nobility and arguably a government that can actually reign in its nobles
Conversely an Equestrian commoner whose noble overlord chooses to abuse has far fewer options available to them, there's no nationally available and cheap method of transport to let them leave, there's no strong industrial output to guarantee them a job elsewhere, no matter where they go they're going to be under the yoke of one noble or another and from what it looks like not even the sisters have the power to fully reign in the nobles quite yet
The issues there is that other than point 5 all of Equestria's advantages basically just stem from "They have the sisters" which makes it difficult to compare the pros and cons of the actual societies themselves
Hell you could even make an argument that the fifth point is also just due to the sisters since if it weren't for them Equestria probably wouldn't be as large as it is
Oh, sure, Most of Equestria's advantages over, say, Maretonia, are due to the sisters. I'll never deny that.
It's a pretty big advantage though. An eternal benevolent ruler means max stability, which is PRICELESS to a nation. If Nightmare Moon doesn't happen then Luna could help cover Celestia's flaws, probably mostly in the martial and international diplomacy fields, and maybe also in intrigue.
While I see where you're coming from I would still argue that the average Empire citizen might be happier just because they actually have options and the divide between them and the nobility is a lot smaller
For example if an Imperial noble decides to be a dick to the commoners, already less likely because our nobles have fought and died alongside the common folk, those commoners have way more options available to them, such as plenty of other places they could move to, a strong industry that makes relocating and finding a new job easier, the existence of a burgeoning middle class that allows them to basically ignore the nobility and arguably a government that can actually reign in its nobles
Conversely an Equestrian commoner whose noble overlord chooses to abuse has far fewer options available to them, there's no nationally available and cheap method of transport to let them leave, there's no strong industrial output to guarantee them a job elsewhere, no matter where they go they're going to be under the yoke of one noble or another and from what it looks like not even the sisters have the power to fully reign in the nobles quite yet
mh... Ponies have the massive advantage of their cutie marks (and, by the way, I kinda dislike the name). They KNOW what they're good at, and more often than not they find a job related to that. They also tend to have some special ability related to that talent, like Fluttershy and her ability to speak to animals, and most unicorns spontaneously developing appropriate spells, or Applejack's "applebucking".
So, I don't think "finding jobs" is really a problem for ponies, and they tend to be happy with their lot in life more often than not.
If things are like in the modern days Celestia holds "open court" to her subjects, so the worst of the abuses would likely reach her notice through that. Admittedly this is not as easy as in the modern day, due to the absence of trains. We can help with that though.
Social mobility... well, yeah, we're definitely better than them on that front, but then again it's only been a few decades since Discord, and we had a massive war of survival helping with that. They just need time, and contact with the outside world (especially us) to see how other societies are organized, and imitate what they like from them.
Oh, sure, Most of Equestria's advantages over, say, Maretonia, are due to the sisters. I'll never deny that.
It's a pretty big advantage though. An eternal benevolent ruler means max stability, which is PRICELESS to a nation. If Nightmare Moon doesn't happen then Luna could help cover Celestia's flaws, probably mostly in the martial and international diplomacy fields, and maybe also in intrigue.
Well I wouldn't say max stability, like you yourself pointed out earlier even under Celestia's reign there were numerous disasters that could have destroyed Equestria
mh... Ponies have the massive advantage of their cutie marks (and, by the way, I kinda dislike the name). They KNOW what they're good at, and more often than not they find a job related to that. They also tend to have some special ability related to that talent, like Fluttershy and her ability to speak to animals, and most unicorns spontaneously developing appropriate spells, or Applejack's "applebucking".
So, I don't think "finding jobs" is really a problem for ponies, and they tend to be happy with their lot in life more often than not.
Firstly, that's again kinda getting into the issue of Ponies vs Griffons rather than Equestria vs the Empire but I see you're point
Secondly, just because a pony is talented at something doesn't mean they'll be content doing it no matter what, for example a pony who's talented at farming is probably still going to be pissed off if the local noble suddenly demands three quarters of his harvest for little compensation
And thirdly, I meant finding jobs less as in finding something they're good at and more that there's no guarantee that there will be a job available for them wherever they ended up moving to
If things are like in the modern days Celestia holds "open court" to her subjects, so the worst of the abuses would likely reach her notice through that. Admittedly this is not as easy as in the modern day, due to the absence of trains. We can help with that though.
Honestly I'd be shocked if she did hold an open court, between how far most of her subjects would have to go just to see her and the sisters probably having to spend most of their time and energy on dealing with the nobility, and even if she did it's of questionable use since it would only be useful to people near their capital, who have solid evidence of their claims and who belong to a noble that the sisters can actually do something about
Social mobility... well, yeah, we're definitely better than them on that front, but then again it's only been a few decades since Discord, and we had a massive war of survival helping with that. They just need time, and contact with the outside world (especially us) to see how other societies are organized, and imitate what they like from them.
Oh absolutely but we can only compare the version we have before us right now, plus it doesn't help that their society is already somewhat inherently stratified between the different types of pony
Well I wouldn't say max stability, like you yourself pointed out earlier even under Celestia's reign there were numerous disasters that could have destroyed Equestria
well, I can say "as high of a stability as you can reach in a deathworld with multiple potential avenues for apocalypses and societal collapse, as shown by every single show villain and/or comic villain ever", but it's not quite as catchy
Firstly, that's again kinda getting into the issue of Ponies vs Griffons rather than Equestria vs the Empire but I see you're point
Secondly, just because a pony is talented at something doesn't mean they'll be content doing it no matter what, for example a pony who's talented at farming is probably still going to be pissed off if the local noble suddenly demands three quarters of his harvest for little compensation
And thirdly, I meant finding jobs less as in finding something they're good at and more that there's no guarantee that there will be a job available for them wherever they ended up moving to
eh, Equestria IS ponies, while Gryphus, while not only gryphons, is a majority of "non-cutie mark wielders".
In a society in which EVERYONE gets a "special talent", I'd say it's nearly unavoidable that will have an heavy influence on how things work. Even in OUR society I imagine that ponies with a specific "mark" will have an easier time of finding a job related to that field.
For the rest, yeah, I imagine Luna's probably the one checking on those kind of injustices, possibly through dreams. And again, Equestria is a less centralized kingdom compared to our, A bit like a Maretonia with stronger and more popular rulers. Things will probably start changing a bit now that they're learning just how big the world is.
At the very least I expect they'll expand the royal guards, and start to invest in infrastructure and some select technologies, like our railways, steel furnaces ,and maybe airships if they can convince us to sell them.
well, I can say "as high of a stability as you can reach in a deathworld with multiple potential avenues for apocalypses and societal collapse, as shown by every single show villain and/or comic villain ever", but it's not quite as catchy
In a society in which EVERYONE gets a "special talent", I'd say it's nearly unavoidable that will have an heavy influence on how things work. Even in OUR society I imagine that ponies with a specific "mark" will have an easier time of finding a job related to that field.
They're more likely to find a job in their preferred field but that doesn't mean that said job is guaranteed to exist
For example, a pony with a talent for blacksmithing might decide to move elsewhere in Equestria but there's absolutely no guarantee that there will be a demand for a blacksmith wherever he ends up whereas in our more industrial society there will always be a demand for more people to do more jobs
For the rest, yeah, I imagine Luna's probably the one checking on those kind of injustices, possibly through dreams. And again, Equestria is a less centralized kingdom compared to our, A bit like a Maretonia with stronger and more popular rulers. Things will probably start changing a bit now that they're learning just how big the world is.
You're assuming that Celestia has the time and inclination to focus on checking people's dreams rather than any of the other work required to run a kingdom
And I feel like if it were that easy for them to deal with the nobility they would have done so already
At the very least I expect they'll expand the royal guards, and start to invest in infrastructure and some select technologies, like our railways, steel furnaces ,and maybe airships if they can convince us to sell them.
Proprietary technology.
If we sell, we only sell the older models and none rated explicitly for warfare, those can be loaned if needed on a war by war basis.
Write a contract up saying they cannot replicate our designs, they'll still try based purely on magic, and no tech, or possibly runes, but they're going to do that anyway.
If they are found breaking the agreement they will anger the world on a global scale, because everyone will know they cannot be trusted, so that should keep the nobles in line.
Proprietary technology.
If we sell, we only sell the older models and none rated explicitly for warfare, those can be loaned if needed on a war by war basis.
Write a contract up saying they cannot replicate our designs, they'll still try based purely on magic, and no tech, or possibly runes, but they're going to do that anyway.
If they are found breaking the agreement they will anger the world on a global scale, because everyone will know they cannot be trusted, so that should keep the nobles in line.
My main concern is actually less about military strength and more about ease of trade
As things are now it appears that outside of a tiny sliver of land they may share with the Yaks, *grumble grumble*, their only way of trading with the rest of the world is either a long voyage by sea or a shorter one by air, assuming that there's some sizeable natural barrier that's stopped them from ever meeting Canterbury, and us owning the easiest and most profitable way to trade with them basically gives us a monopoly in the short term
My main concern is actually less about military strength and more about ease of trade
As things are now it appears that outside of a tiny sliver of land they may share with the Yaks, *grumble grumble*, their only way of trading with the rest of the world is either a long voyage by sea or a shorter one by air, assuming that there's some sizeable natural barrier that's stopped them from ever meeting Canterbury, and us owning the easiest and most profitable way to trade with them basically gives us a monopoly in the short term
In either case we would profit from the transaction.
If we sell, that inhibits their ability to make their own ships, relying on us to get more and possibly repair the ones they buy.
If we only sign a lease to allow them to use our ships to aid in their trade, it would only last until they manage to make their own, possibly aided by nobles using underhanded tactics to perform corporate espionage.
In either case we would profit from the transaction.
If we sell, that inhibits their ability to make their own ships, relying on us to get more and possibly repair the ones they buy.
If we only sign a lease to allow them to use our ships to aid in their trade, it would only last until they manage to make their own, possibly aided by nobles using underhanded tactics to perform corporate espionage.
The issue is that if we sell them airships they are absolutely going to try and figure out how they work regardless of if it's proprietary technology or not, assuming they even have the tech base necessary to reverse engineer it
The way I see it is this, if we sell them airships then we get one off payments and maybe occasional repair job until they either develop their own, potentially less reliable, models or they find a way to trade directly with Canterbury or the Yaks
Whereas if we lease them the ships or do the transporting ourselves then we basically become the hub of all trade with Equestria until such a time when there are other options and even then we'll still be the best option for a lot of people and can loosen restrictions to incentivise people to keep trading with us
The issue is that if we sell them airships they are absolutely going to try and figure out how they work regardless of if it's proprietary technology or not, assuming they even have the tech base necessary to reverse engineer it
The way I see it is this, if we sell them airships then we get one off payments and maybe occasional repair job until they either develop their own, potentially less reliable, models or they find a way to trade directly with Canterbury or the Yaks
Whereas if we lease them the ships or do the transporting ourselves then we basically become the hub of all trade with Equestria until such a time when there are other options and even then we'll still be the best option for a lot of people and can loosen restrictions to incentivise people to keep trading with us
short term I expect we'll keep the airships to ourselves, but long term I think other countries making their own is unavoidable.
Then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. To start with, even today where most countries COULD, in theory, make their own airplanes, they're only really made by few companies. At least when we're talking about the BIG airplanes.
There's, what, Boeing, Airbus, and just recently a Chinese one that makes mostly crappy planes (though they're improving)?
If Equestria truly ends up believing in our friendship and trust us, it's not out of the question that they'd limit themselves to import airships from us.
Alternatively, it's not our of the question that we might at some point cooperate, and might end up with something like a "Gryphus builds the Airships, and Equestrians enchant them".
...I suppose that, in short, I'm not completely against sharing airships with Equestria, though I'd want it to be a big deal, so they'd have to offer something worth it. Also, and this should really be obvious, Neighpon comes first, as our closest allies.
Maybe even the yaks, though I expect they won't be quite as interested, seeing as they tend to keep to themselves anyway, while Neighpon could use an alternative to its navy.
Maybe even the yaks, though I expect they won't be quite as interested, seeing as they tend to keep to themselves anyway, while Neighpon could use an alternative to its navy.
Neighpon gets the Naval deals
Yakyakistan gets the land deals.
Equestria gets the air deals.
Obviously this would be a gross over simplification, but it would be workable.
Equestria is landlocked by geography, Neighpon is trapped by the sea, and the Yaks are pretty ground bound and have lots of space. Also the most military minded of all 3 I believe.
Neighpon gets the Naval deals
Yakistan gets the land deals.
Equestria gets the air deals.
Obviously this would be a gross over simplification, but it would be workable.
Equestria is landlocked by geography, Neighpon is trapped by the sea, and the Yaks are pretty ground bound and have lots of space. Also the most military minded of all 3 I believe.
My main concern is actually less about military strength and more about ease of trade
As things are now it appears that outside of a tiny sliver of land they may share with the Yaks, *grumble grumble*, their only way of trading with the rest of the world is either a long voyage by sea or a shorter one by air, assuming that there's some sizeable natural barrier that's stopped them from ever meeting Canterbury, and us owning the easiest and most profitable way to trade with them basically gives us a monopoly in the short term
I see no reason why we couldn't work out a deal with the Yaks if sea trade is inconvenient for whatever reason. It's not like the Yaks wouldn't benefit from a trade route passing through their territory. Think of the Silk Road going through the Mongol Empire for a real life example of how that might work.
If we ever try to invade/colonize the Storm Country then we'll need all the help we can get. That territory is the size of Equestria or our entire empire. That's a lot of ground to cover and we would probably be dealing with decentralised bands of insurgents using guerrilla tactics. In a situation like that quantity beats quality so if we can get the Yaks to help we do it. They'd have more reason to get involved than Neighpon anyway since the Yetis share a border with them.
If we ever try to invade/colonize the Storm Country then we'll need all the help we can get. That territory is the size of Equestria or our entire empire. That's a lot of ground to cover and we would probably be dealing with decentralised bands of insurgents using guerrilla tactics. In a situation like that quantity beats quality so if we can get the Yaks to help we do it. They'd have more reason to get involved than Neighpon anyway since the Yetis share a border with them.
