Hans, get ze Flammenwerfer! All of them!
Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest
- Thread starter Questor
- Start date
Come on man, it's obviously 95% a joke
Do I find the Yaks annoyingly stubborn? Yes. Do I think they're our least useful ally? Yes. Do I find it annoying that we didn't take steps to integrate them when we could? Yes
But I obviously don't actually hate them and am not going to go out of my way to oppose them or plans that involve dealing with them unless I genuinely think that there are better options
The main reason why trade by sea probably won't be viable is because in order to get to the countries we know of they would have to sail around basically the entire continent and through dangerous waters
There's no reason why we couldn't invest in a trading post where their borders meet, assuming that there isn't some natural barrier there, and build a railroad connecting to it
It's just that air trade will almost certainly be better for us and probably also Equestria, plus with how insular and stubborn the Yaks are I wouldn't be surprised if they're not particularly interested in building and maintaining a major trading post
Realistically the issue with getting the Yaks to help with the pacification of Storm Country is that they'll probably want it for themselves and how much help their official aid will be is debatable
Plus it would probably be a hard sell, especially if we're keeping the land, considering that their reaction to learning about this dangerous land was being mad at us for finding out about it
- Location
- Italy
well, it's not like they had that many chances to check our trains yet, and "steam tech" is a very new thing that people outside of Gryphus just don't know much about.
Give it a decade or two, and they'll come beg us for them. Or we might offer first, maybe.
Equestria DOES have access to the sea! Look at the map!
They just have to circumnavigate to the north, passing by Storm Country (potentially problematic if the Yeti control the costs too) and Yakyakistan.
I'm not sure about Neighpon and rails, actually.
It's expensive, as they'd likely need to import the steel for the rails, but from the map it seems to be a single island, so a complete railway system should be relatively easy to build once you import all the needed steel.
Right now we're probably not THAT interested in building Railways in other countries because we're kinda busy with ours (we built in Gryphus and to the Crystal City, but if we're going to take as protectorate/annex Maretonia, we'd likely prioritize building one there rather than anywhere else, unless we get a really good deal (like Equestrian magical knowledge, for example), or have diplomatic reasons for the offer (which is not something we should dismiss).
In any case, Neighpon COULD use railways, it's just not quite as important due to the small size of the island and how they're probably mostly focused on the coasts.
On the other hand, they have troubles due to limited living space, so having an easier connection to the centre of the island might actually help a bit in that sense...
Generally speaking, Neighpon will likely want ships > airships > trains, while Equestria might find more value in trains > airships > ships.
It also helps that Qilin can probably use their fire magic to help the steam ships, while Equestria could use Pegasi to create wind for wind ships (or unicorn spells, I suppose).
Yaks... they don't seem to currently have much interest for the seas (they might not even have ports yet, with how young the nation is and their previous nomadic culture), and airships are a very young technology they'd probably not trust themselves with yet.
So, to the yaks, it's likely going to be trains > ships > airships, and I don't think they're likely to even consider making their own airships yet (or ever). It's probably easier for them to simply buy from us if/when they decide they want in.
- Location
- Italy
ehi, I'll agree they're our LEAST useful ally too!
I mean, right now they basically only offer
1)some Orichalcum
2)POTENTIALLY prophecies. If we spend an action on it.
other than that, they're a decent market for our exports, but that's kinda it.
Compare to Neighpon, which gave us magic advisors and is the uncontested ruler of the seas. Also Koryu is our daughter's pen pal, and is immortal, so having a friendly relationship with him is recommended for the future of our nation.
They're also a MUCH better market for our products than Yakyakistan, and can offer some exotic goods as well.
Canterbury and Equestria can obviously offer magical goods, too.
The Yaks really don't have anything unique to offer, basically. It's still in our interest to have good relationships, and a connected railway network would help both them AND us through improved trade... but I can't disagree about them NOT being a priority.
They don't like charity anyway, so it's not like we'd be disrespecting them anyway.
are the waters actually THAT dangerous? Last time sea monsters (theory from vanished ships) were mentioned I think we found out it was actually Libertalia's pirates.
Eh, I don't think they'd want it. After all they had nothing against us claiming Kestrella in the past, and Storm Country is much worse land than that.
Also they really don't NEED more land. they have quite a bit, and they're still a young country with a lot of things to build.
Hell, WE don't need Storm Country! At most we'd want a few Orichalcum mining outposts, and that's kinda it! It's HORRIBLE land, with horrible weather, and hostile inhabitants!
The best thing would be to basically install a leader willing to engage in diplomatic talks, and offer mutually profitable deals.
If we can't do that... eh, I'd rather take the land ourself than give it to the Equestrians, but I don't think even THEY would want it, really.
Oh I agree, my point was just that while it's possible that the other nations could develop their own airships it's been years since we developed trains and afaik nobody else has done the same, they just come to us when they want them built
They do have access to the sea but they're not particularly well located for trade
Their two options are:
1) Go north, which means going around Storm Country which is probably extremely dangerous even if the Yetis don't have their own ships, what with all the blizzards, icebergs and dangerous creatures, just to get to Yakyakistan which almost certainly doesn't have many major port cities so they're probably better off keeping going until they hit the Empire
2) Go south past the Buffalo Lands, assuming there's nothing blocking the way, and deal with the dangers of the unknown and even then the first place they'll reach is Maretonia (Or as I prefer to call it New Griffonia)
Don't forget that they straight up lied about not having any orichalcum!
Though to be fair I'll add that the Yaks also make very good soldiers though we don't necessarily have to go through their government to get that
Honestly I can see an Empire/Neighpon union happening at some point in the future
Like I said earlier considering that the entire country is constantly bombarded by blizzards that can't be controlled and every creature that lives there is a predator I'd be shocked if it wasn't dangerous
The major differences there is that Kestrella is actually connected to the rest of our territory and at the time there wasn't a unified Yak government to contest it
They don't need it but they might see it as a matter of principle, after all if we take Storm Country then they're basically completely surrounded by us
Firstly it's a shit ton of orichalcum and that alone arguable makes it worth it
Secondly I guarantee you there were people that said the same thing about the Crystal Lands and look how well that's doing now!
And finally worst comes to worst we can have the Dogs build into the mountains
- Location
- Italy
eh, let's be fair: ONE CLAN lied about not having Orichalcum. I think the other ones just didn't know about it.
Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, We're talking about a time BEFORE they actually formed a united kingdom, AND before we became such close allies. I don't think we can really hold it against the current Yakyakistan country, and in the end they DID give it to us for a reasonable price.
Eh, in time we'll probably get some kind of free trade/free movement policy, but they're likely to keep their independence.
Which is fine, really. We don't need to annex everyone. As long as our laws and values are compatible, and free movement/trade is present, there's really not much more to gain by formally uniting.
ESPECIALLY if we also make common front in international diplomacy.
we don't need to control the country if we can get the orichalcum though. I won't say no if we get a chance to outright annex it, but I'm open to just installing a friendly Yeti king, if friendly Yeti are a possibility.
Crystal Protectorate was a very special case.
I mean, come on, we saved them from a fate LITERALLY worse than death, AND we've been basically SAINTS to them. I doubt there will EVER be a similar situation again in this world's history!
Considering that the yaks were willing to help us fight Sombra because he might be a threat to them in the future, I see no reason why the yaks would not be willing to help us against a neighbor who is already an immediate threat. As for the conquered land, Storm Country is huge. That's way more territory than we can occupy or use. The only way I'm going to support dealing with that mess is if we've got other nations helping to pacify the region. I'd be more than happy to evenly split Storm Country with any allies that helped conquer it so long as we get some ore rich mountains to mine and part of the coast so we can build a port for transporting it back to the homeland. There's no point in trying to keep it all to ourselves if we lack the manpower to hold it.
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- Location
- Italy
Sombra was an invader. He probably wanted to conquer the world. He was a threat to EVERYONE.
The Yeti, for all we know, might just want to be left alone.
Sure, they're horrible people/slavers, but that doesn't necessarily make them a problem for people outside of their country.
That's fair
Hmm, I think it was before they had a unified government but definitely after we were allies
Oh I don't want to annex them or anything but I can see a EU type thing happening or even a full union way down the line
We don't need to control the country but it certainly helps and if there are friendly Yetis then integrating them would be a big win!
Oh there will never be a situation exactly like that again but this one isn't exactly dissimilar
After all we're dealing with a seemingly inhospitable frozen hellhole inhabited by slaves and ruled over by a magical dictator
At the very least there's similarities in the making the territory hospitable
That would make sense but we're already the largest military on the continent so we can probably claim most of the land for ourselves
I don't think it would be a stretch to argue they're up to no good
It's a bunch of scary monsters living in a land filled with magic storms who enslaved people to mine rare anti-magic ore
That's pretty suspicious
- Location
- Italy
technically speaking we don't know if their leader is a dictator. They might have a king, or a tribal council, or who knows
they enslaved foreigners. For all we know they thought they might be scouts for an invading army.
Oh, they probably ARE a threat and/or up to no good, and they certainly MIGHT have plans to invade other lands by taking advantage of the orichalcum...
but they COULD just have internal uses for it, and didn't even think about other lands until they were found by outsiders.
in any case, while invading storm country is hardly a priority, and if I led Equestria of Yakyakistan I'd wait for THEM to attack first, both to fight them at my strongest AND to get a casus belli.
And as far as WE are concerned.. well, we already have enough to do. I'd probably wait for Equestria or the Yaks to ask for help before considering offensive movements against the Yeti, and I'd just limit ourselves to improving border defenses. We already have the option with the Yaks, we can do something similar with the Equestrians, especially if they're going to try to improve their military now that they KNOW of their hostile neighbours
I agree that we should wait for the yetis to attack either the yaks or the Equestrians so that we'll have more support for an invasion of Storm Country, but I also think we should encourage some diplomatic entanglements so more nations are involved when the yetis finally do attack someone. Introducing the yaks and Equestrians would be a good start. If we're lucky they could be convinced to make a defense pact against the yetis.
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- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I am absolutely against sharing with Equestria. The airships are a unique tech that is of an absolute advantage to us. I'd definitely agree that if we do share them, Neighpon should get first pick, but I'd rather we hoard the monopoly. We are the only one with the economic, scientific, and militaristic resources to fund and build those behemoths. Other countries will catch up eventually, but I doubt that will be for decades unless we go out of our way to speed up industrialization for others. There is nothing they or others could give us that is worth turning our absolute advantage into a comparative one.
I'd rather leave Equestria to their feudalism for as long as possible, rather than industrialize them. They've got enough advantages to survive, and that's good enough for me. I know you guys are enthusiastic about trying to ally with them because they are the "canon faction" of the source material* but I don't think that we should interfere too much with them. Leave them to their isolationism. It's fine for them, and it's GREAT for us. If we ever have another Sombra-level threat, we can contact them to join in a coalition. Otherwise I'd rather not poke the potential Great Power out of its slumber to passively challenge us through pure natural advantages.
As a side note, I'd also rather not risk airships falling out of state hands. The concept of "air pirates" or "air smugglers" is terrible, and we should keep the industry of both military and our future commercial airships under nationalization for the good of the country. That way we can more better oversee their usage.
*not saying there aren't other reasons you guys have for wanting to ally with them. Just saying that being intimately familiar with the faction and having a personal connection is the biggest motivating factor as it is in all franchise quests. Everyone wants to interact with the heroes or main characters of franchises they like after all, and Equestria and the Princesses is the closest equivalent here given this is in the past
That's true, but we wouldn't really NEED to cover the entire ground. There's a lotta land on Earth that even now is still nominally claimed by a country but few live there. All we'd need to do is settle the coastline, maintain a series of outposts going through the mountains (possibly connected by judicious use of dynamite for railways) establishing a logistics to our claimed borders for border control, and possibly have a few offshoot outposts if we need to mine somewhere out of the way. There's no reason to have to have someone on every square inch of otherwise useless terrain. As long as we hold zones of control to enforce a claim, that's all we need for the moment.
- Location
- SF Bay Area
While I would say that action against Storm Country is needed it is definitely not something where we march in the army first, we need intel... and then we send the army. This gives our spies a chance to just steal their magical macguffin without a war. 
But there is honestly another thing to consider. What is going on in Storm Country, we built a string of fortifications along the Yakyaki Western Frontier, and cooperated with the. Yaks. Any yeti observer would see that is not a battle to take without consideration... So who ELSE is on their borders if their mind is towards expansion. Does anyone think Equestria would last that long, we'd have to rush to bail them out because we didn't tell them about Orichalcum. Equestria has an ace up their sleeve with magic, but the Yeti have the counter, and they are mining it for something.
I could easily foresee an invasion into Equestria occurring, Luna or Celestia or both rallying the levies and marching north, the Yeti seeing they are fighting magic bolts, respond with Orichalcum whatevers. Equestria is routed, Luna and/or Celestia decide to take care of matters themselves, and get their flanks handed to them, or slain by orichalcum...
We the Griffons and the Yaks could probably take on the Yetis and Storm Country... could the Equestrians ESPECIALLY since they don't know the yeti have Orichalcum? They are sitting ducks with a pair of glass cannons. The question we have to ask ourselves is this... Would the Gryphus Empire sit on their hands and have another nation go through a long bloody war on par with the Winter War?
But there is honestly another thing to consider. What is going on in Storm Country, we built a string of fortifications along the Yakyaki Western Frontier, and cooperated with the. Yaks. Any yeti observer would see that is not a battle to take without consideration... So who ELSE is on their borders if their mind is towards expansion. Does anyone think Equestria would last that long, we'd have to rush to bail them out because we didn't tell them about Orichalcum. Equestria has an ace up their sleeve with magic, but the Yeti have the counter, and they are mining it for something.
I could easily foresee an invasion into Equestria occurring, Luna or Celestia or both rallying the levies and marching north, the Yeti seeing they are fighting magic bolts, respond with Orichalcum whatevers. Equestria is routed, Luna and/or Celestia decide to take care of matters themselves, and get their flanks handed to them, or slain by orichalcum...
We the Griffons and the Yaks could probably take on the Yetis and Storm Country... could the Equestrians ESPECIALLY since they don't know the yeti have Orichalcum? They are sitting ducks with a pair of glass cannons. The question we have to ask ourselves is this... Would the Gryphus Empire sit on their hands and have another nation go through a long bloody war on par with the Winter War?
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Good to hear! I was honestly a little iffy on the second part sounding like you.
For my two cents I would like to build off in said Nega-Pittauro second part and argue that while the strength of Equestria are from the Sister it also produce their main weaknesses. The stability the Sister provide is great is but their is such a thing as too stable and they do risk it. From what I can tell if their is little chance of major change for In Equestria happening unless the Sister are the ones pushing it. The main scenario I see were Equestria loses with the two Sister is one were they simply fall behind the rest of the world because of excessive stability, though given the shock they took from our first contact I don't think that will be a problem for a long time because the Sister will probably be willing to drive change in response. Plus since so many of their advantages come from the Sister if anything happen to them that would be disastrous. Granted that is true for every leader but with us we have a whole royal family that can be gone through to succeed while their are only two Sister which is very unlikely to change for a long time given they don't know how to create new alicorns yet.
Honestly this is a good point. Once we conqu... incorporate the former lands of Maretonia should we look into setting up trade routes through buffalo lands? It would certainly be good for the economy of a devastated region to have. Plus as insular as the Buffalo are I doubt going up to the leader of each tribe and saying "Hi we would like to move traders through you lands, feel free to tax them as long as it isn't unreasonable" would be rejected. Especially if we accompany it with introduction gifts handed out by a reasonably armed escort.
As much as I do agree that the Yeti are a potential threat to watch and the idea of coastal outpost would be the best option, especially considering "Black Mountain" appear to be near the coast and it also would provide trade posts for Equestrian port. Is that not a little imperialist? We are already getting some warnings that we are leaning that direction and colonial outpost on the coast to extract a valuable natural resource while suppressing the natives won't lessen the problem. With Maretonia we can at least say that we were stopping a warlord who had committed atrocities with their being no other continuous government left to rebuild. This is sound like a lot like outright conquest.While I would say that action against Storm Country is needed it is definitely not something where we march in the army first, we need intel... and then we send the army. This gives our spies a chance to just steal their magical macguffin without a war.
But there is honestly another thing to consider. What is going on in Storm Country, we built a string of fortifications along the Yakyaki Western Frontier, and cooperated with the. Yaks. Any yeti observer would see that is not a battle to take without consideration... So who ELSE is on their borders if their mind is towards expansion. Does anyone think Equestria would last that long, we'd have to rush to bail them out because we didn't tell them about Orichalcum. Equestria has an ace up their sleeve with magic, but the Yeti have the counter, and they are mining it for something.
I could easily foresee an invasion into Equestria occurring, Luna or Celestia or both rallying the levies and marching north, the Yeti seeing they are fighting magic bolts, respond with Orichalcum whatevers. Equestria is routed, Luna and/or Celestia decide to take care of matters themselves, and get their flanks handed to them, or slain by orichalcum...
We the Griffons and the Yaks could probably take on the Yetis and Storm Country... could the Equestrians ESPECIALLY since they don't know the yeti have Orichalcum? They are sitting ducks with a pair of glass cannons. The question we have to ask ourselves is this... Would the Gryphus Empire sit on their hands and have another nation go through a long bloody war on par with the Winter War?
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- Location
- Germany
Sorry, but at least to me it doesn´t look like a joke at all. (And even if it is, repeating it every time that topic comes up doesn´t help - *mighty hypocritical of me to say*, I know)
Tbh, you seem to genuinely hate the very existence of both the Yaks and people like them like the Buffalos and be intent to wipe them off the face of the globe while citing "manifest destiny" (which is just cultural egotism and racism with a fancy paintjob - at least in RL it was that way)
I will not pretend that I am utterly blameless in that regard - my seething hatred for those Imperial Cult nutjobs (sorry, but they won´t ever be anything else to me with their lowkey-misanthropic and nihilistic agenda) comes to mind - but at least I don´t *joke* about it.
FictionPack
Monochromatic Ursine
- Location
- Tennessee
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They not only supply a very valuable and rare resource, but they also act as a barrier to a hostile force. So I have to disagree.
Also, personally, I don't think it would have been a good idea, or even really feasible to try to integrate them. Especially when they were still nomadic. The dogs were already within our borders and suffering from a plague, and the crystal ponies were magically enslaved. The Yaks were and are just fine by themselves without us.
Besides, we do have a few yak citizens and can easily get more with the immigration policy if we want.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I mean, yes, that's the point.
I explicitly said that's what I wanted multiple times in this thread, including in the above post
- Location
- Italy
eh, maybe a bit, but you're NOT me. I can't expect you to know exactly what I'd write
It's close enough
Oh, absolutely. Equestria's greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Neutralize the sisters, and you've basically neutralized the kingdom.
And if Orichalcum can protect the yeti from the Elements of Harmony, or even if the elements are just, say, mono-target and can't be used against an army...
If we ever had to fight Equestria, our best bet would likely be to send assassins or the Blackwatch against the Sisters. The rest of the country would likely fall pretty quickly after that.
Also, technically speaking it's not really clear that they ever learn how to create more alicorns.
Cadance ascended on her own. Celestia gave Twilight a nudge, but it's not exactly clear how much of that is Celestia's merit, and how much is Twilight's.
I'm STILL wondering what that spell is supposed to do. It CAN'T be a "turn into an alicorn" spell, otherwise they could now literally mass produce those...
Which is why I'd really wait for the Yeti to make their move first before deciding what to do (other than building up defenses).
Right now we've been pretty well justified in literally any foreign action we took. I'd rather keep it that way.
eh, I still think that hate for the yaks is (slightly) more justified than hate for the imperial cult.
The Yaks HAVE shown themselves to be somewhat unreasonable in canon, and their reaction to finding the yeti (some of them blaming us for it) is annoying.
On the other hand, the Imperial Cult LITERALLY did nothing to deserve it.
- Location
- Germany
...yeah no, I am not waiting for these nutjobs to actually *act* on their nihilistic, misanthropic and fringe-racist rhetorics, thank you very much.
As for the Yaks, they are just being isolationist and traditionalist - not ideal partners for a progressive industrialist powerhouse, but little more than a nusiance.
- Location
- Italy
that's the thing. You have zero proof they're nihilistic, misanthropic, and ESPECIALLY racist.
Questor himself repeatedly stated they're NOT like that.
It's a baseless prejudice.
...then again, we already had this discussion, and it's not like I have any new arguments to offer, so I'll drop it now.
- Location
- Germany
Just how I am reading their whole spiel about "The Royal Family *must be Gods*, since no mere mortal could be that great"
Greatness being a divine attribute just pisses me off for how much it indirectly paints normal people as inherently more shitty in comparison...and because of that I just don´t like the Cult.
Probably more than a little discriminatory admittedly, but at least I am not framing it as a "joke".
- Location
- MN
speaking of the whole cult thing, if you think about it though the idea of people of greatness being divine in some way probably makes a lot more sense in this world than in our world. I mean in our world kings and queens of old often claimed to have some form a divinity to justify why they have a right to rule. European rulers often claimed to be blessed or chosen by god and on the extreme end of the spectrum you have ancient china and Japan who claimed their emperors were actual gods. And that was our world, now in this world where actual god like beings exist (discord, Alicorns, pretty much any of the mlp big bad guys) and could be your next door neighbor the idea of someone being a descendent of such a being is an actual possibility. And to add to it even more we know for a fact, thanks to twilight becoming an alicorn herself, that people can also gain such power themselves so it might enforce the divine idea even more, as in sure he might have been an average Joe once upon a time but now he's become something more. And the fact that we started off as a scrawny merchant and now are swell as hell might actually be playing into it a bit.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I do want to remind you guys of my idea to simply set up a treaty with Equestria ceding a small square of land as an air port for our airships. It could be used for both dignitaries in setting up regular visits between diplomats, as well as regulated imperial trade. That way trade between Equestria and the Empire remains both fast AND safe. A land route would take at least two months to-and-fro and be prone to bandit attacks as well as issues in surviving long treks through undeveloped and dangerous land. An air route takes about six days to-and-fro and should expect little-to-no attacks from anything or anyone, and would be no extra charge for us since I doubt the Yaks are going to enforce rights to their airspace at this stage.
Furthermore, while we still hold a monopoly on the designs and builds, we could even charge foreigners for the right to ferry themselves or their goods on our ships. An extension of that could a bargaining chip for any future trade or political treaty organized with the Equestrians in the future.
It would be an investment, but building up at least a small fleet of commercial airships could be well worth it for the Empire.
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Honestly, I think that orichalum alone would certainly not be enough to stop them. On the other hand it would limit their options, and being only two ponies, with 1/3 of their forces being rendered nearly useless they would probably be hard pressed if the yetis start raiding...
- Location
- Italy
oh, commercial airships are DEFINITELY on our "want as soon as possible" list. Probably right after Maretonia.
They're perfect for trade with Equestria in particular, seeing just how long/potentially dangerous the sea route is, and how much it would take to go by land.
They're not quite that useful for the other countries, though. With Neighpon trains to reach the coast + ships are likely more efficient, trains to reach the yak border and then land caravans are similarly better, and so on.
Of course Airships might still keep an edge for luxury items and passenger travel, especially when the extra speed is worth a premium... but generally speaking their so much more useful on Equestria's route that I doubt we'll use many of them outside of it for some time.