Most of the rural slaveowners are taking his side, though.
Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest
- Thread starter Questor
- Start date
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
We have developed neither the tactical knowledge to start doing this, nor do we have the munitions to make bombardment worthwhile. More likely until we find a gas that can hold a lot of weight, our balloons will be most useful for recon, the same as in OTL World War 1.
The most we could do out of this is use the fact that griffons can all fly whilst most ponies cannot - I am assuming they aren't going to have numerical superiority relying on pegasi - to perform some flanking and encirclement maneuvers, but that would be a lot more short-range than what you are proposing. It would also be dangerous if we fight White Star's forces since they have battlemages which, depending on how high and wide spells go and how high the griffons fly, could lead to some being shot out of the sky if they develop or have developed AA tactics.
Fairly certain if we interact with them via intrigue and martial actions, we could likely get at least one of them to push someone for the throne that would support their cause. Either that or fall back on creating a buffer abolitionist state out of the faction along our border, though that would not be good in the long-term and most certainly guarantee a war from whichever of the two factions proves triumphant.
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Hmm... my read on this is that the best move we have is to back Whitestar if we aren't just going to conquer Maretonia.
He is unknowingly on a death timer since we cut off his trade route so we have a lot of leverage and his opponent is based on rural land owners and slaveholders who will win if we aren't involved. Once he finds out about our move we have him over a barrel and can force some major concession on him. For example seceding all that northern lands to us, restricting slavery, and general putting us in a position of power over Maretonia. Things he might not want to do but when he finds out that he is on a timer to lose or die without us will be better then losing.
He is unknowingly on a death timer since we cut off his trade route so we have a lot of leverage and his opponent is based on rural land owners and slaveholders who will win if we aren't involved. Once he finds out about our move we have him over a barrel and can force some major concession on him. For example seceding all that northern lands to us, restricting slavery, and general putting us in a position of power over Maretonia. Things he might not want to do but when he finds out that he is on a timer to lose or die without us will be better then losing.
- Location
- Florida
Man, I almost feel bad about facilitating this sequence of events.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Sono pazzi questi Roamani.
which.. is only a fairly minor factor in the source of his power, and are not the major issue behind (that being the nobles pushing it) the slave owning problem. provided by suffecent motivation *cough* money from us *cough* we could likely replace them of buy their support on the issue. and the Abolutionists support would more then outweigh them. if he is a pragmatist, it would be a good deal for him.
hence the 'right now' bit. it's just a baseline read without factoring in future actions on out part.
Overall, we really need more information on the situation and our options before we decide, really.
- Location
- Venezuela
I mean, Ambrosia can be a good Queen. Shame that she is the madame of a brothel.
On the other side, that mysterious mare that appears out of nowhere and is certainly not Ambrosia in a disguise can be a good Queen too... What's that? She is the mother of a Hippogriff with black feathers that can serve as a "bridge" to strengthen relations between Maretonians and the Empire?! What a coincidence!
Omake: An Old Bird, Part 2
@Questor
An elderly griffon made his way down the streets of the capital of the Crystal Protectorate. His feathers, reduced to a dull grey by time, would occasionally fall from his body as he walked. He let out a sigh as he spotted a pair of fresh refugees wandering around without any idea what to do.
"You lot looking for something?" he asked. The group startled at suddenly being addressed.
"Um, yeah. Actually." A blue earth pony with an orange mane stepped toward him and answered. "We're looking for our friend Bucky."
"He escaped before us." a pink mare with a green mane added. "We was hoping to meet up with him, but..."
"But it's easy to get lost in this place." the elder finished. "Know just what you mean. Been living here a few years now and I still sometimes lose my way."
The two horses shared a concerned look. "And you made the trip here at your age?"
"Yeah, I can't imagine those...those rotten apples would have left you in a good traveling state."
The griffon let out a hearty laugh. Or as hearty as a laugh as he could. "Naw. I wasn't anybird's slave. I moved here from up north."
"So, if you weren't a slave... what are you doing here?" The blue pony asked. "Isn't this place kind of just one big refugee camp?"
"Cause the Emperor asked." the griffon answered. "He sent out word that he wanted anybird who could to teach these folk to come down here and show them how to make an honest living."
"But aren't you a little...old?" The pink mare asked. Her companion gave her a quick smack to the back of her head.
"Gregor Rockwing isn't goin to let old age stop him from aiding the empire!" the elderly bird declared. "It couldn't stop me a decade ago when Sombra attacked the Empire and it's not goin-" the griffon's rant was interrupted by a coughing fit.
"You sure about that?" the mare asked as she and her friend rushed to his side and guided him to a bench.
"As much as I want to be, no." Gregor replied with a shake of his head. "Not much left for an old feather duster like me to do anymore, anyways."
"Are...Are you going to be okay getting home?" the blue pony asked.
"Yeah." Gregor waved them off with his wing. "My place ain't too far from here. Besides, don't you too have a friend to be looking for?"
"I-If you say so..." The mare said as she exchanged a worried glance at her companion.
It took a bit more shooing to finally get the pair to leave and take care of their own business. Gregor let out a tired sigh as he turned his gaze skyward, to the wild blue yonder that his aged body couldn't travel any more.
What a life he had. The madness of Discord and then his fall, the Griffon's uniting once more, Sombra and his abominations, the rebuilding of the Crystal City, the fracturing of Maretopia. So much had he lived through.
That settled it. Tomorrow he was getting on the first train back to the Empire. He only had a few years left in him, and he was going to spend those with his family.
An Old Bird (Part 2)
An elderly griffon made his way down the streets of the capital of the Crystal Protectorate. His feathers, reduced to a dull grey by time, would occasionally fall from his body as he walked. He let out a sigh as he spotted a pair of fresh refugees wandering around without any idea what to do.
"You lot looking for something?" he asked. The group startled at suddenly being addressed.
"Um, yeah. Actually." A blue earth pony with an orange mane stepped toward him and answered. "We're looking for our friend Bucky."
"He escaped before us." a pink mare with a green mane added. "We was hoping to meet up with him, but..."
"But it's easy to get lost in this place." the elder finished. "Know just what you mean. Been living here a few years now and I still sometimes lose my way."
The two horses shared a concerned look. "And you made the trip here at your age?"
"Yeah, I can't imagine those...those rotten apples would have left you in a good traveling state."
The griffon let out a hearty laugh. Or as hearty as a laugh as he could. "Naw. I wasn't anybird's slave. I moved here from up north."
"So, if you weren't a slave... what are you doing here?" The blue pony asked. "Isn't this place kind of just one big refugee camp?"
"Cause the Emperor asked." the griffon answered. "He sent out word that he wanted anybird who could to teach these folk to come down here and show them how to make an honest living."
"But aren't you a little...old?" The pink mare asked. Her companion gave her a quick smack to the back of her head.
"Gregor Rockwing isn't goin to let old age stop him from aiding the empire!" the elderly bird declared. "It couldn't stop me a decade ago when Sombra attacked the Empire and it's not goin-" the griffon's rant was interrupted by a coughing fit.
"You sure about that?" the mare asked as she and her friend rushed to his side and guided him to a bench.
"As much as I want to be, no." Gregor replied with a shake of his head. "Not much left for an old feather duster like me to do anymore, anyways."
"Are...Are you going to be okay getting home?" the blue pony asked.
"Yeah." Gregor waved them off with his wing. "My place ain't too far from here. Besides, don't you too have a friend to be looking for?"
"I-If you say so..." The mare said as she exchanged a worried glance at her companion.
It took a bit more shooing to finally get the pair to leave and take care of their own business. Gregor let out a tired sigh as he turned his gaze skyward, to the wild blue yonder that his aged body couldn't travel any more.
What a life he had. The madness of Discord and then his fall, the Griffon's uniting once more, Sombra and his abominations, the rebuilding of the Crystal City, the fracturing of Maretopia. So much had he lived through.
That settled it. Tomorrow he was getting on the first train back to the Empire. He only had a few years left in him, and he was going to spend those with his family.
- Location
- Ohio
If house storm is ruling a bunch of upset tribes, we can forment dissent there and get the stronger tribes some support.
If we are attacked, we could give Neighpon a better port to actually settle this time, and we can leverage those abolitionist ports against white star.
Not trying to advocate war, but I can brainstorm strategy with others at least.
I was worried the epidemic was magical.
If we are attacked, we could give Neighpon a better port to actually settle this time, and we can leverage those abolitionist ports against white star.
Not trying to advocate war, but I can brainstorm strategy with others at least.
I was worried the epidemic was magical.
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
The fact that we don't yet have sufficient tactical knowledge is exactly why we need to do this. This civil war is a low stakes conflict for us, which means we can experiment and even abandon it entirely without the same kind of consequences as we would have had if we had done so against Sombra.
By not having the munitions, do you mean we don't have enough? In that case, we can just make more.
I wasn't thinking about balloons at all, but yeah those could be useful for scouting, I guess. They're kind of mitigated by the fact that we already can fly though.
The majority of our forces can fly. A decent number of theirs can too, and whichever of us gains air superiority can cause mayhem for their opponents.
- I already outlined what we can do if we have air superiority. Inserting or extracting units wherever we want is extremely helpful, let alone easy resupply and aerial bombardment.
- If the pegasi gain air superiority, they can control the weather. On the battlefield, that's huge. That means mud preventing us from marching quickly, and fog covering for their attacks against us so we can't see them until they're right on top of us and can't aim our cannons effectively.
This means that air superiority is extremely useful. It's not quite the end-all-be-all of warfare that it is on the open sea, but it's extremely useful even on land.
I'm not sure what you're basing the idea that we can't fly very far on? We had formations flying during the entire battle against Brochard, which probably lasted several hours. If our troops can fly for 30 minutes, that's still pretty far when they're covering ground instead of hovering. Even if they can only fly for a few minutes, that's still useful on a tactical level. A couple minutes of flight is enough to fly over an enemy formation and land where the mages/officers are. One minute of flight is plenty of time to fly straight upwards, take a look at the battlefield, and fly back down to report on enemy positions and approximate numbers.
You're right, using flight against White Star's mages would be dangerous. Using flight against archers would probably be dangerous too. The thing is, so is using ground troops against mages or archers. Sure, sometimes air support will enjoy complete invulnerability if no one has enough range to hit them, but that's not the only reason to use them. I want to use air forces for the maneuverability, not because I think they won't get hit. You're right that there's a danger of them developing anti-air tactics they didn't have before, but it will also let us develop and perfect air tactics that we didn't have before. Since there are likely to be plenty of other enemies in the future, I believe that this is a good trade off.
- Location
- canada
ya I also think it would be smart to state we won't currently intervene with the war there unless the abolitionists are attacked. (note the 'currently' meaning we will intervene as soon as the sides weaken each other a bit.)
we should also send cannon and guns to arm them and perhaps some people to train them. Maybe a number of our diamond dog soldiers too disguised as 'elite abolitionist warriors' lol.
Our diamond dog knight order would certainly help 
- Location
- United States
So I guess for now we can send the abolitionists weapons, training officers, and money. Tell them to focus on freeing slaves, growing their numbers, and training their army for now while the other sides bleed each other out. Then send 'volunteer' units in to help them win a good chunk of the war on their own so it looks like they got most if done without our direct help. Directly intervene at that point to land the finishing blow on the other sides. Unfortunately it's fairly likely that the other sides would see the abolitionists as the weakest link and focus on crushing them first, in which case we'll need to openly intervene early.
Trollbird
Vaguely lazy clunker
- Location
- USA
You know, I've been Lurking on this thread for a bit out of curiosity and amusement despite not being an MLP fan but coming back to find the MLP medival version of the IRL Middle East devolving into an utter mess is not what I expected to come back to.
Question is how does one prevent this from becoming an Iraq or Afghanistan?
Question is how does one prevent this from becoming an Iraq or Afghanistan?
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Sending 'volunteer' units would be an excellent way to test out some new tactics.
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- Location
- sweden
Here is a fun idea on how to fuck with the White Stars based on some historical precedence.
Given that the White Star factions power rests on their wealth, we could mint a fuck-ton of gilded scrap metal coins and seed them all over their territory while we spread rumors about them being in financial trouble and using fake coins to make up the difference to pay their mercenaries.
Sounds like it could be fun, no?
Given that the White Star factions power rests on their wealth, we could mint a fuck-ton of gilded scrap metal coins and seed them all over their territory while we spread rumors about them being in financial trouble and using fake coins to make up the difference to pay their mercenaries.
Sounds like it could be fun, no?
The Maritonians are not stupid, its all but outright stated that the reason no-one has taken over the abolitionist territory because it might provoke war with us, resulting in a multi-front war with that faction. the ONE thing that could result in these factions uniting again rather than burning each other out is foreign interference. the second it becomes apparent that we are looming over the horizon, sharpening blades, is the second the civil war gets put on hold.
The last thing we want to do is provide weapons and militarize the abolitionists, it gives the other factions a reason to target them. rather we should set up humanitarian aid on the border/push humanitarian support for that sector to try and stabilize it. that way the other factions are the aggressors if they decide to attack and they have little ground to stand on if they accuse us of being kingmaker with the abolition faction.
- Location
- SF Bay Area
Problem with that is that right now, the Abolitionists, Royal Guard and storm are likely all using Maretonian coins, so... we'd be screwing over all 4 factions (so one ally, 1 neutral and waiting, and 2 enemies), to say nothing of Minotaur republics that might be ticked that Griffons are counterfeiting coins.
Weaponizining Economics to this extent never goes well because it causes a lack of faith in potentially your own treasury. "So how many of your coins are actually gold?" "All... except when we counterfeit" <narrows eyes at Griffon Treasury>
- Location
- Latvia, Riga
Mother of..... Her death was a big possibility, like 85%, but I thought it would be in a desperate battle with us/Libertia to maintain what little power she had, but this? Oh, man.
Least something (an opportunity) for Gawian!!! No, he/we can use this to "show him off" and "prove" he is a worthy heir AND his own person (maybe as some semi-independent/new limited actions...). Will need some prep time, but Crystal Protectorate and Abolitionists...
As for rumor mill:
• New people, new minds, new ideas, and new possibilities! This is the new generation and it will be interesting to see what comes of it
• As I've said before, Magic and Technology are different sides of the same coin. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages and it highly depends on the context. Sombra VS Gryphon is kinda a good example of differences between those, and the Crystal Invasion demonstrates how Tech and Magic can interact with each other.
All in all, Magic and Technology, what magic presents, technology can imitate (steam engine) and Vice versa (Sombra's siege spells)
• Disease: So happy our healthcare is on top of its game. Sadly such things are inevitable and might become more poignant in the future, so who wants to establish additional (maybe some private/independent) systems for improving our medical?
•Maretonia is a total clusterfuck... which as @Sentient Tree said is an opportunity.
Currently, there are 2 factions that are of positive impact for us and our allies: Abolitionists and the Royal Guard.
Ambrosia's faction is in shambles, but the closes to us in both location and ideology. While she lacks "royal blood" she is the new representative/symbol of freedom, positive change, and eventually either a ruler OR like Crystal Protectorate Ivory Rook elected representative.
Royal Guards, in this case, play the role of legitimacy: whoever gets their support, no matter the blood, is officially the true ruler of Maretonia. Problem: we're foreigners and partially the reason this happened (aka we opposed their tradition and demanded to free our citizens, aka in their eyes we started this).
– If we want to get ANYTHING positive in the long run, we need to get these 2 factions on our side and up to snuff
- Location
- sweden
I see the parallels. The biggest problems here (and IRL) is that the area contains several different tribes that hate each other's guts. Thanks to the slavery being mainly race divided with the earth ponies being shafted they will probably not want to become a part of a unified Maretonia given that the unicorns and pegasi are dicks.
We could help enforce a split? Create North Maretonia for the earth ponies and other former slaves. This would change the situation from our Middle East to our North & South Korea which is the more stable option.
We Ally with North Maretonia, uplift them and help them rebuild while the south tears itself apart.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
Word of warning, I split your post into its two halves to make it easier to reply to, as otherwise I would have to keep moving up to check if I am replying correctly and that I didn't miss anything and that gets annoying and time-consuming quickly.
No, I am not talking about supply when saying we don't have the munitions. I am saying we have not technologically developed the right types of explosives to make WW2 bombing tactics of the type you are directly speaking of - you used German intervention in the Spanish Civil War in the lead-up to WW2 as an example - an actually worthwhile practice. Any explosives we may have that are both powerful enough (excluding magic since we don't really have a magic branch yet) and mobile would likely be too arduous for any but an elite force to actually carry over long enough distances to prepare for carpet bombing runs. That is why I was assuming you were speaking of the balloons and zeppelin designs, because it would otherwise put an unrealistic strain on our forces to carry such munitions for longer distances than maybe close air support for nearby skirmishes, battles, and possibly naval support if the naval scene actually becomes something we have to pay attention to within this potential war.
I didn't say we can't fly very far. I said that only short-range would be useful at this point in time. A 30-minute flight to aid in a battle is not what I was considering "far" when speaking. I am more saying that we wouldn't be able to do pseudo-Paratrooper drops with the griffons flying far behind enemy lines. This was based more on an assumption that our army just doesn't have the kind of speed, maneuverability, or force to make those kinds of tactics not incredibly risky to entire companies being captured or forced to stand down.
Indeed. Not really gonna contest that, since the White Star thing was something I edited in anyhow. It was more something that occurred to me as I was looking over what I said and what you said to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I just wanted to point it out. I don't really think that danger should actually stop us from attempting to establish air superiority, so much as I wanted to point out a bit of a warning that I had just thought of in there being more potential danger than just confrontation with the pegasi.
In summary, I was never contesting the whole of your post like you seem to think I was. I was contesting very specific parts. You are under the impression that we have the capabilities and the minds to do WW2-style aerial warfare, when we barely have the doctrinal evolution and technology to pull off WW1-style i.e. strafing and dogfighting like the Red Baron as well as transport of people and supplies (though limited unless you want a lot of manpower on this), but no large-scale commando operations or carpet bombing campaigns.
You misunderstand what I mean by "tactical knowledge." I am not saying that we don't have a developed enough doctrine to ensure that we won't get too bloodied or end up losing. I am saying we don't have enough experience in using this field for the new manners you are proposing be used to actually be a realistic proposal in-universe. Military doctrine is slow to change, and I can't imagine any of our brass heavily focused around the ideas of chivalry and knighthood would actually propose such unheard of manners in using aerial warfare.
No, I am not talking about supply when saying we don't have the munitions. I am saying we have not technologically developed the right types of explosives to make WW2 bombing tactics of the type you are directly speaking of - you used German intervention in the Spanish Civil War in the lead-up to WW2 as an example - an actually worthwhile practice. Any explosives we may have that are both powerful enough (excluding magic since we don't really have a magic branch yet) and mobile would likely be too arduous for any but an elite force to actually carry over long enough distances to prepare for carpet bombing runs. That is why I was assuming you were speaking of the balloons and zeppelin designs, because it would otherwise put an unrealistic strain on our forces to carry such munitions for longer distances than maybe close air support for nearby skirmishes, battles, and possibly naval support if the naval scene actually becomes something we have to pay attention to within this potential war.
I know a majority of our forces can fly and that the pegasi of theirs can fly. I literally said that in the statement you quoted. Also, I never contested the usefulness of air superiority so I don't know why you are acting like I did. All I contested was the full extent of what we could do once air superiority is established. I didn't touch on aerial superiority itself, and in fact made an assumption within the post you quoted that we could establish aerial superiority based on numerical superiority from how griffons can all fly whereas ponies need a specific subspecies to fly.
I didn't say we can't fly very far. I said that only short-range would be useful at this point in time. A 30-minute flight to aid in a battle is not what I was considering "far" when speaking. I am more saying that we wouldn't be able to do pseudo-Paratrooper drops with the griffons flying far behind enemy lines. This was based more on an assumption that our army just doesn't have the kind of speed, maneuverability, or force to make those kinds of tactics not incredibly risky to entire companies being captured or forced to stand down.
Indeed. Not really gonna contest that, since the White Star thing was something I edited in anyhow. It was more something that occurred to me as I was looking over what I said and what you said to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I just wanted to point it out. I don't really think that danger should actually stop us from attempting to establish air superiority, so much as I wanted to point out a bit of a warning that I had just thought of in there being more potential danger than just confrontation with the pegasi.
In summary, I was never contesting the whole of your post like you seem to think I was. I was contesting very specific parts. You are under the impression that we have the capabilities and the minds to do WW2-style aerial warfare, when we barely have the doctrinal evolution and technology to pull off WW1-style i.e. strafing and dogfighting like the Red Baron as well as transport of people and supplies (though limited unless you want a lot of manpower on this), but no large-scale commando operations or carpet bombing campaigns.
- Location
- USA
Well good to see I come back to the rumor mill and everything has gone sideways up the creek. Safe to say that we cannot be the aggressor here in the civil war without question. We can aid our abolitionist neighbors with humanitarian and maybe a little training and arming but no more then that. Should one of the others attack however that is a different story to sing later should it happen. For now we should make sure that the abolitionist have what they need to maintain stability.
QuietlyObserving
The Railgun That Walks Like a Bear
- Location
- Here.
So, based on this, what we really should do is turn to our son and say: "You wanna be Emperor, kid? Go and be a Primarch first."
So long as he doesn't pick Lorgar Aurelian as a role model and actually become the head of the Imperial Cult, he should do just fine.
So long as he doesn't pick Lorgar Aurelian as a role model and actually become the head of the Imperial Cult, he should do just fine.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
So, based on this, what we really should do is turn to our son and say: "You wanna be Emperor, kid? Go and be a Primarch first."
So long as he doesn't pick Lorgar Aurelian as a role model and actually become the head of the Imperial Cult, he should do just fine.
Honestly not a bad idea. Give him command of a mercenary band to go hunt monsters in Canterbury. Give him some gold and let him try and build a business. Put him in charge of a diplomatic team establishing relations with one of the other Minotaur republics. He's got plenty of talent, but he's chafing because he hasn't had a chance to use it in a meaningful context. Give him a job where he'll be forced to rely on those talents to do well and he should rise to the occasion.
