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We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross)

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Yun said:
@manofjay Using information from invisible text like this is alright correct? I expect it to be as that is the sorta intuition Newtypes are canonically know for, but felt it prudent to double check as I'm working on a plan using it.
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As long as you don't put our people in danger to try and save an enemy combatant during a fight that is fine. This one is not even worth trying to save she is just an empty clone and even if we captured her she is likely to be killed anyway. They are after all terrorists and she has no infromation that would make her worth keeping alive so they would place her on trial then sentence her to death.
 
[X] Sometimes the small things in life can make a world of difference.

-[X] Bait her out (Roll 1d100 (Maneuver), Best of 4 or Roll 1d100 (CHA), Best of 3) (Mark which one you would prefer in the vote)
--[X] Charisma
-[X] Talking is a free action
--[X] "Who are you?"
---[X] "If you don't know that is fine as many people live their entire lives without being able to truly answer such a question, but you might be able find find your answer by following your rage by to the pain in your heart that gave birth to it, and your friend whose in need of your care. Furthermore if you power down your mobile suit we can formally accept your surrender, and making our duty as soldiers to provide what aid we can to those under our aegis."

AN: The italics are an attempt by Alex to make Wolf 06 realize she is alive, and has emotions. The part where she refers to "our" is more her interpretation of the duties of a soldiers through the opinion of someone whose goal for fighting is protect those she cares about per her interlude talking with Shin, and is probably character development as she is extending that belief to individuals based upon what she was taught a soldier is supposed to do.

Anyways I've already covered this, but in brief a cornered soldier is like a rat, and a Newtype with their first real emotion in this case hatred to channel their focus allowing them to pick up all the instincts/emotions that make them so dangerous on the battlefield is a sufficient risk that using a combat round to attempt a social resolution is prudent. Because with three dice even if it fails we should roll high enough to introduce doubt into Wolf 06 making her less likely to follow her instincts, and now that I think about it her instincts would be telling her that Alex is being honest meaning she'd have to ignore them then follow them.

Feel free to suggest changes to the dialogue to make it better as I'm not very good with it tbh, but unless someone makes a very persuasive argument I'm sticking the the CHA approach for this round.
 
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Yun said:
Feel free to suggest changes to the dialogue to make it better as I'm not very good with it tbh, but unless someone makes a very persuasive argument I'm sticking the the CHA approach for this round.
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Just be aware that we will not be keeping her if she is captured she will be taken by the intelligence agencies and any and all information will be extracted and depending on what they can get she will either be imprisoned or sentenced to death. This is not a situation where the poor soul just needs a hug and everything will be better she will be made to pay for her actions as part of a terrorist organization. Don't go into this thinking you are saving her you are not you are delaying her punishment is all.
 
Yun said:
[X] Sometimes the small things in life can make a world of difference.
-[X] Bait her out (Roll 1d100 (Maneuver), Best of 4 or Roll 1d100 (CHA), Best of 3) (Mark which one you would prefer in the vote)
--[X] Charisma
-[X] Talking is a free action
--[X] "Who are you?"
---[X] "If you don't know that is fine as many people live their entire lives without being able to truly answer such a question, but you might be able find find your answer by following your rage by to the pain in your heart that gave birth to it, and your friend whose in need of your care. Furthermore if you power down your mobile suit we can formally accept your surrender, and making our duty as soldiers to provide what aid we can to those under our aegis."
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Hey If you are doing a plan since you need all of it together for it to work set it up how I edited it in the quote above that way people like the guy above me count toward it completly cause the way it is currently set up only the action to bait her out with a CHA roll is part of your plan the talking is a completely separate thing.

Like this one here it all counts as one plan instead of two.

[X] Trash Talk and rage monster

-[X] Bait her out (Roll 1d100 (Maneuver), Best of 4)
-[X] Talking is a free action
--[X] "Who are you?" (newtype speak)
---[X] "I hope you do better than that waste of a cockroach I took out." (regular transmission)
 
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Adventwolf said:
Just be aware that we will not be keeping her if she is captured she will be taken by the intelligence agencies and any and all information will be extracted and depending on what they can get she will either be imprisoned or sentenced to death. This is not a situation where the poor soul just needs a hug and everything will be better she will be made to pay for her actions as part of a terrorist organization. Don't go into this thinking you are saving her you are not you are delaying her punishment is all.
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Hm. Even from a pragmatic pov the modern military from my limited recollection basically never execute* their own soldiers much less those who surrender unless they've done some well documented war crimes, and a very brief glance shows that this is applied to none governmental organizations. So they'll probably be imprisoned until such a time as they're deemed to be no longer a threat society, and/or shipped back to Zeon as part of a political deal... hopefully the ethics committee allows bureaucracy to work in our favor to keep any who might be exploited by Zeon out of their hands.

Anyways if my plan succeeds we'll hopefully be given a choice for character development in the form of a query by Shin over the topic as they move to join the main battle, and I've got a rough idea on how to do so in a manner that makes things interesting.

*Toss into a deep hole/prison sure, but not execute.
Adventwolf said:
Hey If you are doing a plan since you need all of it together for it to work set it up how I edited it in the quote above that way people like the guy above me count toward it completly cause the way it is currently set up only the action to bait her out with a CHA roll is part of your plan the talking is a completely separate thing.

Like this one here it all counts as one plan instead of two.
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Thanks for the notice of the error on my part, and it should be fixed.
 
Yun said:
Hm. Even from a pragmatic pov the modern military from my limited recollection basically never execute* their own soldiers much less those who surrender unless they've done some well documented war crimes, and a very brief glance shows that this is applied to none governmental organizations. So they'll probably be imprisoned until such a time as they're deemed to be no longer a threat society, and/or shipped back to Zeon as part of a political deal... hopefully the ethics committee allows bureaucracy to work in our favor to keep any who might be exploited by Zeon out of their hands.
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Yeah no that is not what happens. Not only are none of TZ anyone's own soldiers surrended or not we are not keeping them they are going to be taken by the intelligence agencies. Also, I said delay her punishment not execute her there and then. No matter what at best she will be imprisoned for the rest of her life. And they are documented actions that all of TZ has committed she is a part of an organization that has been attacking every target they can find military and a lot of civilians. There is no time where they are "no longer a threat to society" because they will be sentenced to death. The Ethics committee has no reason or even any power to stop this because they are guilty of their actions and they will be sentenced accordingly which in almost all the cases will be death except for maybe the lowest ranking noncombatant personal,
 
Adventwolf said:
Yeah no that is not what happens. Not only are none of TZ anyone's own soldiers surrended or not we are not keeping them they are going to be taken by the intelligence agencies. Also, I said delay her punishment not execute her there and then. No matter what at best she will be imprisoned for the rest of her life. And they are documented actions that all of TZ has committed she is a part of an organization that has been attacking every target they can find military and a lot of civilians. There is no time where they are "no longer a threat to society" because they will be sentenced to death. The Ethics committee has no reason or even any power to stop this because they are guilty of their actions and they will be sentenced accordingly which in almost all the cases will be death except for maybe the lowest ranking noncombatant personal,
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Sigh. I'm not particularly inclined to enter a lengthy debate when we don't know who within TZ did what beyond a single cell of them using civilians as hostages, and military convoys being confirmed as being raided in the news. Furthermore we have little in the way of ability to influence the outcome from what we know.

Still in regards to individuals working under TZ being considered soldiers... there are probably loopholes in the legal code that would allow them to treated as illegal combatants despite them having a command structure alongside everything else a splinter group of Zeon would have, but that seems ill advised seeing as the Federation's reputation is still recovering from the whole admitting to assassinating a martyr to spacenoids. It seems much simpler to give them a lawyer, and a day in court to allow the legal system to work things out based upon what evidence the Federation has of any war crimes, and/or crimes in general.

Admittedly I expect most of them were fanatical enough to be spending the remainder of their lives in a prison cell, but the Federation being perceived by the general public as a nation of laws, and for the people is a long-term good thing imo.
 
@Yun
Which is why they would be sentenced to death. You seem to be thinking that we are going to just kill them outright they will be tried in a military court they will be sentenced and none of them would be considered illegal combatants. The only ones that would get that designation are medical personnel who didn't commit illegal experiments. There is no way any loophole will be used for these people no matter who they are they will be sentenced for their crimes which is very long. We have reports of all of the cells attacking all kinds of targets that is why people don't want to join us because they see we can't protect them. Also if you want to convince the Blank to stop don't speak over the damn radio for everyone to hear her other squad mates will just order her to keep fighting and she is completely loyal to them. Use newtype abilities so no one knows you are trying to subvert her so they can't counter it.
 
Adventwolf said:
@Yun
Which is why they would be sentenced to death. You seem to be thinking that we are going to just kill them outright they will be tried in a military court they will be sentenced and none of them would be considered illegal combatants. The only ones that would get that designation are medical personnel who didn't commit illegal experiments. There is no way any loophole will be used for these people no matter who they are they will be sentenced for their crimes which is very long. We have reports of all of the cells attacking all kinds of targets that is why people don't want to join us because they see we can't protect them. Also if you want to convince the Blank to stop don't speak over the damn radio for everyone to hear her other squad mates will just order her to keep fighting and she is completely loyal to them. Use newtype abilities so no one knows you are trying to subvert her so they can't counter it.
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Sigh. I'm just going to shelve this argument as it is probably making players unwilling to vote.

I left that intentionally up the QM to decide seeing as from what I can recall even after "Newtype flash" moments they tended to communicate through mundane communications instead of mentally..
 
Right if you want to be a bleeding heart go ahead I have said my part and given you the actual results that would happen with this cell and all of its members. Risk ourselves and the others trying to save someone trying to kill us all.

Also Our CHA actually sucks. We are not a natural at getting people to listen or follow us.
 
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Adventwolf said:
Right if you want to be a bleeding heart go ahead I have said my part and given you the actual results that would happen with this cell and all of its members. Risk ourselves and the others trying to save someone trying to kill us all.

Also Our CHA actually sucks. We are not a natural at getting people to listen or follow us.
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I'd like to point out that CHA is tied for Alex's 3rd/4th best stat, but her wisdom truly shows that she is a Newtype lacking in common sense. :V

Although seriously we need to boost her melee a bit otherwise we'll have issues in the case when someone closes into melee, or a variety of other reasons hitting something with a beamsaber proves prudent. Still action economy sucks as we're stuck between socials, and training ugh.
 
Yun said:
I'd like to point out that CHA is tied for Alex's 3rd/4th best stat, but her wisdom truly shows that she is a Newtype lacking in common sense. :V

Although seriously we need to boost her melee a bit otherwise we'll have issues in the case when someone closes into melee, or a variety of other reasons hitting something with a beamsaber proves prudent. Still action economy sucks as we're stuck between socials, and training ugh.
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We never had high stats to begin with. We got lucky in our first training battle and got a trait that saved us and we put in the months of training required to get our shooting up to a proper level.

We also have other things to train on at the time. Melee was unless for us since it was so low to begin with. Now that shooting and maneuvering are at decent levels we can afford to put in the effort to Improve it.
 
Adventwolf said:
We never had high stats to begin with. We got lucky in our first training battle and got a trait that saved us and we put in the months of training required to get our shooting up to a proper level.

We also have other things to train on at the time. Melee was unless for us since it was so low to begin with. Now that shooting and maneuvering are at decent levels we can afford to put in the effort to Improve it.
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Er I wasn't disagreeing with the choices we made, but rather commenting on how we should train in the future, and the fact that action economy makes doing so difficult unless Alex gains a trait from combat experience that gives an extra action, or something else along those lines.
 
Yun said:
Er I wasn't disagreeing with the choices we made, but rather commenting on how we should train in the future, and the fact that action economy makes doing so difficult unless Alex gains a trait from combat experience that gives an extra action, or something else along those lines.
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Unlikely Alex's choice is completely different from the rest of our actions since those are for the Federation as a whole being made by the rulers of the Federation. What Alex does has no bearing aside from how her actions impact combat that she is sent into. The main character is the Federation after all not Alex who can die and we would keep going by replacing her.
 
Yun said:
[X] Sometimes the small things in life can make a world of difference.

-[X] Bait her out (Roll 1d100 (Maneuver), Best of 4 or Roll 1d100 (CHA), Best of 3) (Mark which one you would prefer in the vote)
--[X] Charisma
-[X] Talking is a free action
--[X] "Who are you?"
---[X] "If you don't know that is fine as many people live their entire lives without being able to truly answer such a question, but you might be able find find your answer by following your rage by to the pain in your heart that gave birth to it, and your friend whose in need of your care. Furthermore if you power down your mobile suit we can formally accept your surrender, and making our duty as soldiers to provide what aid we can to those under our aegis."

AN: The italics are an attempt by Alex to make Wolf 06 realize she is alive, and has emotions. The part where she refers to "our" is more her interpretation of the duties of a soldiers through the opinion of someone whose goal for fighting is protect those she cares about per her interlude talking with Shin, and is probably character development as she is extending that belief to individuals based upon what she was taught a soldier is supposed to do.

Anyways I've already covered this, but in brief a cornered soldier is like a rat, and a Newtype with their first real emotion in this case hatred to channel their focus allowing them to pick up all the instincts/emotions that make them so dangerous on the battlefield is a sufficient risk that using a combat round to attempt a social resolution is prudent. Because with three dice even if it fails we should roll high enough to introduce doubt into Wolf 06 making her less likely to follow her instincts, and now that I think about it her instincts would be telling her that Alex is being honest meaning she'd have to ignore them then follow them.

Feel free to suggest changes to the dialogue to make it better as I'm not very good with it tbh, but unless someone makes a very persuasive argument I'm sticking the the CHA approach for this round.
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If your plan wins is it alright if I use the sprit of the argument rather that the literal?
 
@manofjay
So what would be the fallout if Shockwave got killed and we were trying to get the one killing him to surrender while she is killing him? Cause we only have one shot at pulling her away before she will kill him.
 
I guess people really do want to risk on own people and the leader of another squadron for an enemy trying to kill us that only follows the orders given and is enraged. I really hope she has some value because if not we risk our reputation and trustworthiness with the rest of the EFF with this. If Shockwave gets killed because we tried to get the person killing them to join us at best the 2nd Experimental will never work with us again. At worst we are removed from Task Force Radiant and the who Sqaudaron is placed under investigation for treason. That is not even getting into the fact that even if we somehow get her not to kill Shockwave and stop she is likely to still be sentenced to death for her actions as part of TZ.
 
Come on, people! Vote with your heads, not your hearts! Vote for Plan Trash talk and rage monster, as the other plan is suboptimal due to the fact that it goes for Charisma instead of Maneuver as the stat used for the Bait option, as we have better bonuses to Maneuver than to Charisma.

We still have time, we can still make the right choice here!
 
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