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We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross)

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Captainwolf said:
I was going to add more detail about how to break the TFs down even further, into Task groups and Task units, but realized that's more detail than is really needed. The method for designating Taskforces is from how the US navy did it during WW2.
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I wouldn't break it down since they need to be flexible enough to be changed as the operation requires.
 
[X] Talk to your support about something
-[X] What kind of celebration Zeon forces got dragged away for?
 
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Quiet Patrol- Turn 2
  • Threadmarks
    • As you pull into your assigned position you take note of the other ships in the fleet, a pair of Salamis-class light cruisers and four Atlas-class destroyers moved in formation with the Phoenix.

    "What kind of celebration did Zeon forces got dragged away for?"

    Federation Pilot
    <     They're apparently celebrating "a year as equals". >

    GK
    <     No joke? >

    Magic Hand
    <     No joke. They've got every unit they could find in some big fleet review. >

    Federation Pilot
    <     It's a big, vain, propaganda procession ending at their capital cylinder. Apparently one of the Zabis have got something big to reveal. >

    "That's a lot of eggs in one basket."

    Federation Pilot
    <     Please, old TZ is on their last legs. They couldn't get near a fleet that size. >

    GK
    <     He's got a point, they'd have to get past us as well. >

    Civilian Radio
    <     ...and there we see the cruiser Merrygate passing by, her battle damage completely healed. And thanks to our skilled engineers all in under a week...... >

    You almost couldn't believe your ears, "Thunder do you have a radio in your cockpit?"

    Thunder
    <     Yes, apologies for the selection, at this range the only other station is the 'Federal Standard' and all they have been playing has been the EFF Show Band. They are..... not great. >

    Federation Pilot
    <     Bloody awful is more like it. >

    Federation Pilot
    <     Every one knows, why do you think we outsource for big events? >

    Thunder
    <     I can shut it off if it's bothering anyone. >

    [] Response- (write in)

    Phoenix
    < All units be advised, we have passed way-point one and nothing unusual so far. >

    What now?

    [] Talk to your squad about something
    -[] (Pick a topic)

    [] Talk to your support about something
    -[] (Pick a topic)

    [] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[] (Pick a topic)

    [] Just focus on the mission

    (Your Beam Rifle has 20 shots, you have (1) reload(s) )

    "Skadi"-Vehicle: Pixie Warlord
    ECA- Green
    Status- Green
    Shield- Green

    "Thunder"-Vehicle: Pixie Warlord
    ECA- Green
    Status- Green
    Shield- Green

    "GK"-Vehicle: Pixie Warlord
    ECA- Green
    Status- Green
    Shield- Green
     
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    • [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't and issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."

    The radio isn't hurting anything and if anything starts we can hear it from a second news source. Need to know if the Pheonix has their sensor sweep at full strength and constant monitoring so we don't get jumped.
     
    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't an issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
    Federation Pilot
    < It's a big, vain, propaganda procession ending at their capital cylinder. Apparently one of the Zabis have got something big to reveal. >

    "That's a lot of eggs in one basket."

    Federation Pilot
    < Please, old TZ is on their last legs. They couldn't get near a fleet that size. >
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    ... so how badly did Zeon roll in the background to come up with the idea of a military parade? Also looks like Zeon fanatics are going to be attempting to replicate their canonical perfect score for successfully nuking military parades... hopefully "True" Zeon hasn't been rolling extremely well for improving upon the destructive capability of their delivery system for their nukes.

    Because worst case scenario is the fleet review, and operation war crimes are a success resulting in the formation of a group that is their equivalent to the Titans. This would make sense if they've got members inside ready to take advantage of a deadlocked congress, the usual Zabi infighting, and/or members associated with groups the Zabis crushed under their heels while taking over, but didn't outright wipe out for various reasons.

    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't and issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't and issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't and issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
    Yun said:
    Because worst case scenario is the fleet review, and operation war crimes are a success resulting in the formation of a group that is their equivalent to the Titans. This would make sense if they've got members inside ready to take advantage of a deadlocked congress, the usual Zabi infighting, and/or members associated with groups the Zabis crushed under their heels while taking over, but didn't outright wipe out for various reasons.
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    Zeon's equivalent of the Titans is just their normal military, based on precedent.
     
    EternalStruggle said:
    Zeon's equivalent of the Titans is just their normal military, based on precedent.
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    Zeon's normal military is no different than anyone else's. The Titans also are just the elite units of the Federation that eventually went war crime happy because of the leadership which were fanatics for their own power. Zeon got their own zealots literally kicked out and in and into a group that is removed and being hit hard. The task forces already in use are this TL's versions of the Titans for both sides.
     
    Adventwolf said:
    Zeon's normal military is no different than anyone else's. The Titans also are just the elite units of the Federation that eventually went war crime happy because of the leadership which were fanatics for their own power. Zeon got their own zealots literally kicked out and in and into a group that is removed and being hit hard. The task forces already in use are this TL's versions of the Titans for both sides.
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    Their zealots not including Gihren "I Gas Billions Of Innocents" Zabi and Dozle "I Follow Gihren's Kill Billions Of Innocents Plan" Zabi, though.
     
    EternalStruggle said:
    Their zealots not including Gihren "I Gas Billions Of Innocents" Zabi and Dozle "I Follow Gihren's Kill Billions Of Innocents Plan" Zabi, though.
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    It isn't like either side is good here and they haven't done any of that so judging them for things they haven't ever done is stupid. Dozle is loyal but he is also willing to turn against them if he believes it is for the greater good. The gassing was a crime but it also almost ended the war completely and most were not aware of what the plan actually was. It also wasn't done because Gihren is a fanatic is what done because he thought it would cow the Federation and end the war which it very nearly did if not for the Federation getting lucky and having their best commander escape.
     
    Adventwolf said:
    It isn't like either side is good here and they haven't done any of that so judging them for things they haven't ever done is stupid. Dozle is loyal but he is also willing to turn against them if he believes it is for the greater good. The gassing was a crime but it also almost ended the war completely and most were not aware of what the plan actually was. It also wasn't done because Gihren is a fanatic is what done because he thought it would cow the Federation and end the war which it very nearly did if not for the Federation getting lucky and having their best commander escape.
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    I'm sorry, but "oh it could end the war" is not an excuse for literally the largest genocide in human history.
     
    Adventwolf said:
    Didn't say it was. I said he had a reason and not because he was a fanatic which he wasn't. He is a dick and evil but he isn't stupid and doing things for evils sake.
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    He absolutely was a fanatic. He was willing to kill his own father to stop peace from happening in a war he was losing. Quite badly by that point. Those are the actions of a fanatical man.

    It's just that fanatical isn't a synonym for stupid.
     
    EternalStruggle said:
    He absolutely was a fanatic. He was willing to kill his own father to stop peace from happening in a war he was losing. Quite badly by that point. Those are the actions of a fanatical man.

    It's just that fanatical isn't a synonym for stupid.
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    Because he knew he would not survive if peace was made. It was a selfish move not a fanatical one. And again you cannot judge someone for things they haven't done. This version isn't the version that started a war and then lost it. This version is fully aware of the stakes and that it is very likely we will all die if we don't work together.
     
    Adventwolf said:
    Because he knew he would not survive if peace was made. It was a selfish move not a fanatical one. And again you cannot judge someone for things they haven't done. This version isn't the version that started a war and then lost it. This version is fully aware of the stakes and that it is very likely we will all die if we don't work together.
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    But nothing's different about him. The PoD is too recent, he was literally two days away from ordering Sides 1, 2, and 4 completely annihilated for the crime of existing. He may be pragmatic enough to put his ambitions on hold, sure. We can work with the fascist would-be dictator, absolutely. But it bears keeping in mind just who holds the reigns of power in Zeon. They are not our friends, merely allies of convenience.
     
    EternalStruggle said:
    But nothing's different about him. The PoD is too recent, he was literally two days away from ordering Sides 1, 2, and 4 completely annihilated for the crime of existing. He may be pragmatic enough to put his ambitions on hold, sure. We can work with the fascist would-be dictator, absolutely. But it bears keeping in mind just who holds the reigns of power in Zeon. They are not our friends, merely allies of convenience.
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    And I never said he was a friend. If we could get away with killing him we would. There is a reason we have options to change the power structure of Zeon you know. He had reasons for taking out those colonies they were Garrisoned by forces that would have become a major threat to Zeon if left alive. When you are outnumbered the way Zeon is excessive cruelty and mass death are going to happen. It wasn't right but it wasn't done just because they existed like you claim. The entire point of Gundam is that no side was good and that war is a horrible thing for everyone. Gihren is a psychotic monster but not a crazy fanatic.
     
    Adventwolf said:
    And I never said he was a friend. If we could get away with killing him we would. There is a reason we have options to change the power structure of Zeon you know. He had reasons for taking out those colonies they were Garrisoned by forces that would have become a major threat to Zeon if left alive. When you are outnumbered the way Zeon is excessive cruelty and mass death are going to happen. It wasn't right but it wasn't done just because they existed like you claim. The entire point of Gundam is that no side was good and that war is a horrible thing for everyone. Gihren is a psychotic monster but not a crazy fanatic.
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    It's incorrect to assume that just because Gundam states that both sides have problems that makes them morally equivalent. I mean it is the case in some series, but 0079? No.

    And Zeon could just have... not started the war. The war happens when Zeon wants it, because Zeon started the war.

    Also I'm hesitant to accept the logic that the garrisons were a major threat when most recountings of the opening month of the war go "and then the EFSF got their shut pushed by Zakus, like every ship they had died, it was a massacre you guys."

    The slaughter of the spacenoids was not done because of ideology, no, but it was done merely because it happened to be slightly convenient to Zeon at the time to massacre countless innocents for geopolitical gains in a war they started.
     
    Adventwolf said:
    And I never said he was a friend. If we could get away with killing him we would. There is a reason we have options to change the power structure of Zeon you know. He had reasons for taking out those colonies they were Garrisoned by forces that would have become a major threat to Zeon if left alive. When you are outnumbered the way Zeon is excessive cruelty and mass death are going to happen. It wasn't right but it wasn't done just because they existed like you claim. The entire point of Gundam is that no side was good and that war is a horrible thing for everyone. Gihren is a psychotic monster but not a crazy fanatic.
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    EternalStruggle said:
    It's incorrect to assume that just because Gundam states that both sides have problems that makes them morally equivalent. I mean it is the case in some series, but 0079? No.

    And Zeon could just have... not started the war. The war happens when Zeon wants it, because Zeon started the war.

    Also I'm hesitant to accept the logic that the garrisons were a major threat when most recountings of the opening month of the war go "and then the EFSF got their shut pushed by Zakus, like every ship they had died, it was a massacre you guys."

    The slaughter of the spacenoids was not done because of ideology, no, but it was done merely because it happened to be slightly convenient to Zeon at the time to massacre countless innocents for geopolitical gains in a war they started.
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    This line of argument is becoming way to hostile. If you really want to debate the particulars of OYW Zeon morality I'm sure that there is a thread for it.
     
    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't and issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't and issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't and issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
    [X] Response- Keep it but have it set to shut off if we have to engage in combat until then it isn't an issue.
    [X] Talk to the Phoenix about something
    -[X] "Phoenix how far are our sensors going? If anything shows up I would like the maximum amount of warning and info to plan a reaction."
     
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