When did GM say that, anyway? I couldn't find it after cursory search.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- France
Of course! They've had several centuries to get started on that theological change! Where is it? Where are their efforts? Where is that gradual spread of updated dogma?
They've had Conclaves, arguments of the faith, time to debate it and try various things... And they did nothing.
Furthermore, I'll ask a lore question for people who know more about WHFB than I do : do you know of any references to such an updated dogma existing, to fit in with the new laws? AFAIK there is none, and the better attitude of Altdorf's citizens towards wizards is entirely due to daily proximity to wizards who don't make every horror story come true every day when they walk around in the street, as well as knowledge of the fact that local law enforcement will defend their basic right to exist.
Here's an example: why is Mathilde required to serve? Let's acknowledge the fact that keeping tabs on all these potential mages is necessary : while it's unlikely they would have become actual problems (most potential mages never learn to control their powers and basically never use them), rogue Dhar users are problems.
Why is it necessary to weaponise them? Couldn't you train up the ones who want to be heroes, and let the others live their lives as civilians? I'd understand requiring them to live in a certain area so they can be regularly checked on, for example.
But kidnapping them and raising them as weapons for the Empire isn't exactly the most morally correct stance.
Still, I will agree that the Colleges aren't Evil or anything. They're pretty great, considering the alternatives! And they do try to make things better!
It's the other imperial institutions that are really a problem here. The College is the good cop, they're the bad cop : of course the bad cop is worse! And what else could the good cop do? At least his promises of a reduce sentence if you play along are real!
- Location
- United States of America
[X] You are a Magister of the Grey Order, and follow the traditions laid down by Teclis and Magnus the Pious. Try to ground the energies.
- Location
- Austria
It's basically because every mage has a potential to be a living WMD, either via controlled magic or via uncontrolled (read: becoming a portal to Warp/possessed/etc).
So question of liberty of human mages in the setting cannot help but run into question of "is the liberty of everyone owning Recreational McNukes worth the security consequences?". I think the Colleges, in general, are as good a compromise as possible in the fairly crapsack setting in the renaissance tech level.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Another fun possibility is that Mathilde succesfully hands off the energy to Ranald, who figures that he can't actually control it* and instead chooses to do Mathilde a favour by just throwing the whole thing in Sigmar's face.
*Because let's be honest, Waaaagh is the sort of thing that you can't control, only direct
It isn't a likely scenario nor is it probably a good one, but I would find it immensely satisfying.
- Location
- his hidden lair
That's why o said consciously- given that Mathilde doesn't really get very close to people easily. Hell, given the wording of Belegar's offer, I'm pretty sure it includes sheltering her from the Empire if need be. Whether either of them considered it from that perspective I whole heartedly hope that Mathilde's relationship with and identifying with Dwarfs becomes a big part of her character growth.
[X] You are a Magister of the Grey Order, and follow the traditions laid down by Teclis and Magnus the Pious. Try to ground the energies.
There's a reason why the most powerful mages in the world never walk anywhere. And it's not becasue they're obese toads.
There's a reason why the most powerful mages in the world never walk anywhere. And it's not becasue they're obese toads.
Because the Empire is in the constant state of war for survival, and needs every weapon it can get. So Wizards get drafted the same way anyone from peasants to Elector-Counts do.
Yeah exempt is the peasants want to leave and fight for another cause they can, the magisters get hunted down like dogs.
1) According to Realms of Sorcery she wasn't bound that early. As I mention, when apprentices are ready to graduate they can choose not to become Journeymen and instead swear off their magic and take up civilian life. She apparently chose to become a Journeyman. Yes, that's a lifelong commitment, but the spells Journeymen are taught are too dangerous to let people have free access to.
2) Kragg's rune is an incredibly valuable resource that if shared amongst the College's magic researchers and battle wizards would do much more good for the Empire and humanity. Remember that she's sworn a vow of poverty. She isn't meant to own material possessions at all, to prevent exactly this kind of inappropriate possessiveness over what she should have known was always a communal asset.
The Cult of Sigmar has proclaimed that sanctioned wizards of the Colleges aren't using malefic magic, and that Sigmar's condemnation of magic users is inapplicable to them. The problem is that the rural peasantry's experience of magic still tend to be at least half-mad hedge wizards that are suffering from Dhar corruption, so they're understandably sceptical.
Mathilde wasn't required to serve. She had a choice. If she didn't want to become a Journeyman, she could become a civilian when she completed her apprenticeship. Your arguing against a strawman. And kidnapping is unnecessarily emotive language.
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Magisters are more dangerous and individually powerful, so yeah. If the Empire could prevent peasants leaving without much trouble, it sure would.
Religions are very hard to change on the basis that they are anchored in blind faith. And as we see here the warp entities may actively resist change.
Even a new prophet more often causes schisms instead.
A communal asset... or just another tool like Mathilde herself is? Funny thing about that vow of poverty, it makes mages even more dependent on the Colleges just so the living weapons do not get any funny ideas like walking off and making their own way in the world instead of being used up however the Empire pleases. It it starts to stink even more when one considers that the person with the vow of poverty had accrued a giant dept fo the colleges for her training.
"You are not allowed to have money but just in case you do you owe us a pile of gold."
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Only Grey Wizards have to swear a vow of poverty, due to the serious temptations that Shadow wizards are presented with, as well as the mental effects of Ulgu. Gold Wizards, for example, are expected to become exceptionally wealthy and usually live lives of significant luxury. The Grey Order keeps its people on a much, much shorter leash than any of the others.
Wizards from a wealthy background may not even graduate with debt, if their family pays their fees.
And there are probably plenty of serfs in the deep backwoods of the Empire whose local nobility does bind them to the land and forbid them leaving.
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Also, vow of poverty has holes in it large enough that we literally put a castle through, so I wouldn't take it seriously at all.
By the way, still not seeing any source that the College would take our belt from us.
- Still does not change the fact that you have someone forbidden from acquiring wealth whom you piled a ton of debt on, debt that tempted us towards corruption (the mundane kind) at the start of the quest so we could pay it off. Great system 10/10. Would move in with the dwarfs...
- And those serfs misery is just as wrong, two wrongs definitely do not make a right
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Can I possibly get a quote on 2? I don't remember it.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Yes, that may be on the cards (I hope it's not).
Possibly including but not limited to her head!
Quite hard to separate the debate-about-the-headsplode-options from the pro-or-anti-Empire-and-Colleges-dogma.
A couple of people have said we've got a Ranald Blessing to go... is that for sure the case? It'd make me feel better about any of the options...
- So you build a system that is mean to be broken, encouraging corruption, that does not make it more moral, just more stupid
- It was in response to one of @Alratan posts, but I can't remember enough of the wording to find it.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
[ ] You are a faithful of Ranald, being in the right place at the right time to unbalance the scales. Try to steal the energies.
This is what feels right to me. A sufficient mix of being in character, cool, sensibleness, ambition and excitement. But I can't. I'm too much like a cat and the curiosity is killing me.
[X] You are the justice of Mork, delivering swift death upon the heresy of Only Gork. Try to accept the energies.
I know that this has the potential to completely turn the quest on its head and distort/discard all previous characterization even more than if we were to fall in with chaos, but I have to know, damn it all.
This is what feels right to me. A sufficient mix of being in character, cool, sensibleness, ambition and excitement. But I can't. I'm too much like a cat and the curiosity is killing me.
[X] You are the justice of Mork, delivering swift death upon the heresy of Only Gork. Try to accept the energies.
I know that this has the potential to completely turn the quest on its head and distort/discard all previous characterization even more than if we were to fall in with chaos, but I have to know, damn it all.
Max Uristwell
Custodian of the Toobs
- Location
- United Kingdom
Correction: it's not just because they're obese toads.
The Grey Order's Vow is described as:
The Lords of the Grey Order assure all Magisters of their Order are bound very tightly by the Articles of Magic and by the Order's own very strict rules. Shadowmancers may only practice their spellcraft for the benefit of Imperial society and are expressly forbidden from using their magic for their own profit or solely for the political or financial profit of their patrons. All Shadowmancers must take vows of poverty and are not permitted to accumulate property or wealth not of direct and practical use to their cause. Any breaches of the many strict rules laid down by the Order are prosecuted very harshly and vigorously.
Using money that they earn paying back their debt to the College wouldn't require accumulating property or wealth. It would be a way of avoiding accumulating wealth.
Someone else raised it. I just provided a potential justification. I could easily see how Mathilde could justify her possession of it as being of direct and practical use to the cause of the Grey College.
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