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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Prime 2.0 said:
Speaking of, when are we gonna see about getting our pilgrimage declared complete? What with Vlag and other big-ass hauls, lol.
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Eh, I've kind of soured on the whole "have stuff you did for other reasons retroactively declared a Pilgrimage of Fingers." Stuff can kick ass -- and kick ass in a Ranald-pleasing way! -- without it having to also be part of a Pilgrimage of Fingers. I genuinely really like the elements where the Pilgrimage involves, well, letting other people guide you and decide what tasks you need to do. It builds up the facet of Ranald's tenets that involves trusting your brothers and sisters in the faith. And we didn't do that, we just kind of yoloswagged through things that were in front of us at the time and they worked out in ways congruent with Ranald's principles because that's also congruent with our principles.

Basically, I feel like the defining element of the Pilgrimage of Fingers is that it binds the Pilgrim into the Ranaldite community in a profound and lasting way, a metaphor literalized by the tattoos you get afterwards, and that's not really something we've ever done -- we take marching orders from Ranald himself, but never from other Ranaldites. Being arguably a saint of Ranald, a major asset to his plans who bears tokens of his favor, is obviously a profound and important thing. But it is not the same profound and important thing as a Pilgrimage, and I do feel it would lose something to conflate the two.
 
picklepikkl said:
Eh, I've kind of soured on the whole "have stuff you did for other reasons retroactively declared a Pilgrimage of Fingers." Stuff can kick ass -- and kick ass in a Ranald-pleasing way! -- without it having to also be part of a Pilgrimage of Fingers. I genuinely really like the elements where the Pilgrimage involves, well, letting other people guide you and decide what tasks you need to do. It builds up the facet of Ranald's tenets that involves trusting your brothers and sisters in the faith. And we didn't do that, we just kind of yoloswagged through things that were in front of us at the time and they worked out in ways congruent with Ranald's principles because that's also congruent with our principles.

Basically, I feel like the defining element of the Pilgrimage of Fingers is that it binds the Pilgrim into the Ranaldite community in a profound and lasting way, a metaphor literalized by the tattoos you get afterwards, and that's not really something we've ever done -- we take marching orders from Ranald himself, but never from other Ranaldites. Being arguably a saint of Ranald, a major asset to his plans who bears tokens of his favor, is obviously a profound and important thing. But it is not the same profound and important thing as a Pilgrimage, and I do feel it would lose something to conflate the two.
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^So much this. More to point I don't feel like we earned it since we did not go through the proper forms and would never do it anyway since it is a good way to loose our position in the empire. Just declaring it complete feels like being one of those wanna be's that get gang tattos without being in it.
 
I basically concur with the above two posts concerning the pilgrimage, with some added Dawi-style grumbling about how procedures are to be followed lest the whole thing becomes meaningless.

picklepikkl said:
we take marching orders from Ranald himself,
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Actually, do we even do that?

If I recall correctly (and I am not a loremaster so I very much might not), the only times we've gotten "orders" from Ranald was when we actively asked him what we should do. To my knowledge, he has never actually plopped down and asked us to do something save the time he didn't want us to inspect his abs too closely.

EDIT: Yes, we probably would do as Ranald said if he ever found something important enough to give us a clear message, but I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet.
 
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Omegahugger said:
Actually, do we even do that?

If I recall correctly (and I am not a loremaster so I very much might not), the only times we've gotten "orders" from Ranald was when we actively asked him what we should do. To my knowledge, he has never actually plopped down and asked us to do something save the time he didn't want us to inspect his abs too closely.
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Ranalds orders:

Do whatever. It'll work out... I think.
 
Omegahugger said:
I basically concur with the above two posts concerning the pilgrimage, with some added Dawi-style grumbling about how procedures are to be followed lest the whole thing becomes meaningless.


Actually, do we even do that?

If I recall correctly (and I am not a loremaster so I very much might not), the only times we've gotten "orders" from Ranald was when we actively asked him what we should do. To my knowledge, he has never actually plopped down and asked us to do something save the time he didn't want us to inspect his abs too closely.

EDIT: Yes, we probably would do as Ranald said if he ever found something important enough to give us a clear message, but I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet.
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We got an Order once: It said "Don't". Which is probably just about the nicest way a god has ever directly told a worshipper to stop doing what they are currently doing, but still an Order.

Edit: Sorry for my reading comprehesion failure, you did mention the coin research. Still think it counts as an order though.
 
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NSMS said:
We're almost certain Mathilde doesn't actually have a dwarven soul, and that it's a fiction made up because some important dwarves can't stomach the idea of an umgi doing a better job of reclaiming holds than they've ever managed.
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And because Ranald couldn't resist fucking with the dwarves when he had the chance. They probably asked somehow, and he implied "Yes, that is totally what happened! I did it for the lulz!", because it's funny to make them think that.

Give them credit, they came to this conclusion based on information from a source of 'undoubted repute', even if their reason for investigating her humanity/dwarfity in the first place was because they didn't like the idea of her being human.
 
Omegahugger said:
Actually, do we even do that?

If I recall correctly (and I am not a loremaster so I very much might not), the only times we've gotten "orders" from Ranald was when we actively asked him what we should do. To my knowledge, he has never actually plopped down and asked us to do something save the time he didn't want us to inspect his abs too closely.

EDIT: Yes, we probably would do as Ranald said if he ever found something important enough to give us a clear message, but I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet.
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No because if Ranald was giving orders that'd be too close to tyranny for him?
We've sort of been co conspirators in the Only Gork/Mork heist, but if anything we brought him into that.
 
Omegahugger said:
Actually, do we even do that?

If I recall correctly (and I am not a loremaster so I very much might not), the only times we've gotten "orders" from Ranald was when we actively asked him what we should do. To my knowledge, he has never actually plopped down and asked us to do something save the time he didn't want us to inspect his abs too closely.
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During the Stirland saga, Ranald's blessing often manifested as "cats guiding us towards or away from various courses of action, or sometimes random chance doing stupid bullshit like the die roll for getting in touch with the criminal underworld." After we acquired the Avatar trait, we have been able to sense Ranald more directly: now we are able to perceive slivers of divine attention and to even get an idea of what his attitude is sometimes, so he doesn't do the "omens and portents" thing so much anymore to communicate with Mathilde except when he's being a ridiculous drama queen.

It's true, though, that he does not give out straightforward orders the way our bosses do. He's not that kind of fellow, and we don't have that kind of relationship with him. I was taking some poetic license for rhetorical effect.
 
picklepikkl said:
During the Stirland saga, Ranald's blessing often manifested as "cats guiding us towards or away from various courses of action, or sometimes random chance doing stupid bullshit like the die roll for getting in touch with the criminal underworld." After we acquired the Avatar trait, we have been able to sense Ranald more directly: now we are able to perceive slivers of divine attention and to even get an idea of what his attitude is sometimes, so he doesn't do the "omens and portents" thing so much anymore to communicate with Mathilde except when he's being a ridiculous drama queen.

It's true, though, that he does not give out straightforward orders the way our bosses do. He's not that kind of fellow, and we don't have that kind of relationship with him. I was taking some poetic license for rhetorical effect.
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I suspect we would have gotten a more order-based relationship if we had taken that high priest job.
 
picklepikkl said:
It's true, though, that he does not give out straightforward orders the way our bosses do. He's not that kind of fellow, and we don't have that kind of relationship with him. I was taking some poetic license for rhetorical effect.
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Well, we could have had that sort of relationship if we'd gone for the high priest job.

Which might have been cool, but, eh, I'm a little wary of putting our loyalty to Ranald higher than our loyalty to... well, everyone else. Same reason I'm hesitant to advocate for the legitimisation of our pilgrimage, as cool as that also sounds.
 
picklepikkl said:
During the Stirland saga, Ranald's blessing often manifested as "cats guiding us towards or away from various courses of action, or sometimes random chance doing stupid bullshit like the die roll for getting in touch with the criminal underworld." After we acquired the Avatar trait, we have been able to sense Ranald more directly: now we are able to perceive slivers of divine attention and to even get an idea of what his attitude is sometimes, so he doesn't do the "omens and portents" thing so much anymore to communicate with Mathilde except when he's being a ridiculous drama queen.

It's true, though, that he does not give out straightforward orders the way our bosses do. He's not that kind of fellow, and we don't have that kind of relationship with him. I was taking some poetic license for rhetorical effect.
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Funny thing:

BoneyM said:
Ranald's chosen forms of communication with Mathilde isn't a limitation of their relationship, it's a deliberate choice because it entertains Him to mildly annoy Mathilde with omens and coincidences.
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The omens and portents were only ever because he thought it was funny, even before Avatar.

As Heidi evidences, he's absolutely capable of communicating more directly- but its a lot more entertaining to make a coin land on its edge or lead Mathilde around with a stray cat.
 
picklepikkl said:
Basically, I feel like the defining element of the Pilgrimage of Fingers is that it binds the Pilgrim into the Ranaldite community in a profound and lasting way, a metaphor literalized by the tattoos you get afterwards, and that's not really something we've ever done -- we take marching orders from Ranald himself, but never from other Ranaldites. Being arguably a saint of Ranald, a major asset to his plans who bears tokens of his favor, is obviously a profound and important thing. But it is not the same profound and important thing as a Pilgrimage, and I do feel it would lose something to conflate the two.
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The spirit of the pilgrimmage as you define it is exactly the problem I have with it: Boney has said flat-out that Ranald would use that as an opportunity to bind us closer to him by severing our binds with everyone else. Taking missions designed to burn our bridges is completely unacceptable to me, and I surmise it is for the rest of the quest base as well.

With a consideration like that, getting our pilgrimmage retroactively completed is frankly the only way we'll have it done at all.
 
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Prime 2.0 said:
The spirit of the pilgrimmage as you define it is exactly the problem I have with it: Boney has said flat-out that Ranald would use that as an opportunity to bind us closer to him by severing our binds with everyone else. Being given missions designed to burn our bridges is completely unacceptable to me, and I surmise it is for the rest of the quest base as well.
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100% agreed. We cannot reasonably do a standard Pilgrimage of Fingers at any point in the foreseeable future.
With a consideration like that, getting our pilgrimmage retroactively completed is frankly the only way we'll have it done at all.
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Yes. I would prefer not ever having done it and not diluting its meaning to saying that we did it retroactively. People are free to disagree, obviously, but that's where I'm at.
 
Hey @BoneyM, was the Khornate anti-magic collar something pre-existing, or did you make it up yourself? I ask because it shows up in the new TW:W3 Khornate roster reveal, on some of the doggos.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
Hey @BoneyM, was the Khornate anti-magic collar something pre-existing, or did you make it up yourself? I ask because it shows up in the new Khornate roster reveal, on some of the doggos.
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Brass Collars are pretty old stuff, I think.

warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Collar of Khorne

Collars of Khorne are among the many gifts granted by the Blood God to his greatest Champions. Hence, many of his minions, including Daemons and Chaos Beasts, wear them as well, all to better spread the destruction of their vicious master.[1a] Certainly the Flesh Hounds of Khorne wear such...
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We could of course rebel against our God's rebelling against his own strictures by retroactively declaring a completed Pilgrimage by refusing to accept the oppressive authority being exercised. Ranald might even back us on it. Of course he might also encourage and simultaneously reverse psychology discourage his other followers to both support and disregard our stand, depending on how funny he finds that kind of recursive silliness.
 
consequences said:
We could of course rebel against our God's rebelling against his own strictures by retroactively declaring a completed Pilgrimage by refusing to accept the oppressive authority being exercised. Ranald might even back us on it. Of course he might also encourage and simultaneously reverse psychology discourage his other followers to both support and disregard our stand, depending on how funny he finds that kind of recursive silliness.
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I'm going to assume that Ranald abides by the Rules 1 and 2 of being silly:

Rule 1: Don't take anything seriously
Rule 2: Don't take Rule 1 seriously
 
NavySeel said:
You forgot Rule 3, don't take Rule 2 seriously.

Unfortunately that's when the recursion starts.
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Godwinson said:
Simplify it:

Don't take any rules seriously, even this one.
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Dark as Silver said:
Don't take any rules seriously, especially this one!
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While this is in good fun, I need to point out that Ranald does have rules, and can get very very annoyed with followers that break them easily.

One coin in ten belongs to Ranald.

Ranald frowns upon unnecessary violence.

Live by wits, not by your sword.

A true devotee of Ranald uses the dagger and stiletto; only amateurs and the slow-witted need armour and long sword.

It's better to live free and die, rather than suffer under oppression.

There is no honour among thieves, yet trust in your brothers and sisters, for there is honour among Ranaldans.

Betraying a fellow to authorities is the cardinal sin.

now, overall its the unnecessary violence and Betraying a fellow to authorities that he doesn't really give riggle room for, but like boney said; you only get so many 'clever interpretations' before your just making excuses and will get smited.
 
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