Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Moral epiphanies yeah?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
There's a good schematic of where the Eye of Gazul can hit in @Vebyast 's in-universe research paper on the topic, here.
As for namevoting - obviously culture is different from thread to thread, but in my experience when someone namevotes you, and especially when they namevote you in a thread that doesn't normally namevote, they're intentionally ceding their voting power to you because they trust your judgement. I would encourage you to vote as you normally would, instead of keeping approval votes that you no longer agree with as the vote develops, @picklepikkl .
[X] [KAU] In the Silver Tower, an ancient structure on the southwestern face of Karagril
- Location
- Earth
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
Okay done but you now have to pity like all my posts forever
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hey, thanks for the link! Appreciate it. It does look like I was wrong about the Silver Tower itself being covered by the Eye of Gazul. However, it looks like I was right about it being able to cover every overland approach to it. So that's a distinction that only makes a difference when it comes to clearing aerial attackers directly targeting the tower itself (for some weird reason). It's not like K8P doesn't already have other options for dealing with aerial attackers though (the ToK stone we got enchanted for Belegar is intended specifically for assisting with anti-dragon defense, remember?), and it would not be difficult to add more to the Silver Tower - another version of the Blue Tower that defends the Eye, for instance.
This post doesn't actually contain anything I didn't already know, except that you are correct that I misremembered about the Eye's ability to cover the East Gate itself.
I think people might be confused by my saying the Eye can cover "overland approaches to it"? The "it" in that phrase is the Silver Tower itself, not the West Gate (which, incidentally, has been VASTLY reinforced since Waaagh Birdmuncha days, just saying). If an enemy comes through the West Gate and tries to move overland from there to the Silver Tower, they get god-nuked. If they go underground rather than entering through the West Gate, they are out of sight of the Eye of Gazul (obviously) but can no longer approach the Silver Tower directly and would need to fight through all the defenses of Karagril first (and Karag Zilfin, but that's probably rather less built up). And if an enemy can crack those defenses, the entire Karak is probably basically fucked anyway, since those are some of the most built-up and heavily defended fortifications in the entire Karak.
I will acknowledge that I was incorrect about Kvinn-Wyr being less defensible against overland attack, but that is not the most significant avenue of threat to K8P in any case. In the event of an Underway breach from the Skaven (the primary threat to K8P per the assessment of Belegar's council), they could theoretically breach from underneath Kvinn-Wyr itself; in the original fall of K8P, the Skaven breach came from tunneling beneath the Underway and then collapsing the entire floor of a central location to pour through. In fact, it would make a fair amount of strategic sense for them to do so, since Kvinn-Wyr itself is not one of the more heavily defended Karags, but it is directly connected via the Underway to several of our most important locations, notably Karag Mhonar which now holds much of the Hold's population, and Karag Nar - which, if fully taken, would negate the ability of the Eye to guard the overland approaches, though the Skaven might not care so much about that anyway.
Ugh, I guess partly I'm just getting frustrated at the degree of attachment people seem to have to what is nearly the most boring, milquetoast option out of every possibility we have. To be fair, that's really more of a me issue than something other people should need to compensate for, and I may take a break from the thread for the rest of the night after this because of it (we'll see).
But seriously. If you want "convenient to K8P's long-term non-dwarven population" (though I feel like I've repeatedly explained why that's not a particularly relevant concern even in terms of evaluating convenience to actual users, and not received much of a reply to that) + "secure," put it in Karag Nar near the entrance - I think people are overestimating the amount of space even an expansive library in this era will need, and underestimating the volume of the Karag considerably. Seriously, it's an entire mountain - you could combine the entire dwarven, human, and halfling populations of K8P inside it and it wouldn't even be half full. The initial clamor for real estate specifically near the entrance was one of the very first things we solved as Loremaster, to boot; that's why it's available now.
If you want "cool" + "secure" + "can very readily be made convenient and comfortable to the people actually using it," put it in the Golden Age tower the size of the Burj Khalifa, which otherwise we will probably never get to interact with or use (think you could guess this is the one I want even without context?
).But the selling points of Kvinn-Wyr, AFAICT, amount to little more than "it's a totally empty mountain, as opposed to a mostly empty mountain or a totally empty giant tower" + "it's convenient to people who will overwhelmingly never use it" + "it's more secure against overland attacks than one of the far-western Karags, of which only Karag Zilfin is even an option offered here." Just, ugh, WHY.
Anyway, yeah, I'm gonna take a break for a while I think.
- Location
- MS, USA
[X] Plan Redshirt with Mushrooms
[X] [KAU] In the Silver Tower, an ancient structure on the southwestern face of Karagril
[X] [KAU] In the Silver Tower, an ancient structure on the southwestern face of Karagril
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Changing vote- I like swords more than caves.
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
-[X] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[X] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[x] DUCK: Continue to work with Panoramia with implementing the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
-[X] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Cult of Karnos, Talabecland)
-[X] Suggest Eike spend a few weeks in Karak Eight Peaks, so she can grow familiar with Dwarves and their ways.
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] Investigate the possibility of using one Wind to directly manipulate another.
-[X] Attempt to recruit Egrimm van Horstmann into WEB-MAT
--[X] COIN: Gambler
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Build a basic tower of single-Wind environments for each of the 'missing' Winds: Light, Amber, Amethyst, and Gold
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
-[X] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[X] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[x] DUCK: Continue to work with Panoramia with implementing the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
-[X] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Cult of Karnos, Talabecland)
-[X] Suggest Eike spend a few weeks in Karak Eight Peaks, so she can grow familiar with Dwarves and their ways.
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] Investigate the possibility of using one Wind to directly manipulate another.
-[X] Attempt to recruit Egrimm van Horstmann into WEB-MAT
--[X] COIN: Gambler
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Build a basic tower of single-Wind environments for each of the 'missing' Winds: Light, Amber, Amethyst, and Gold
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
If you want an actual argument for Wyr:
With Wyr, we essentially have complete freedom when it comes to the floorplan, whereas with the tower we'll be more limited to following the existing layout (since moving around all the load bearing walls will be a much bigger ask).
With Wyr, we essentially have complete freedom when it comes to the floorplan, whereas with the tower we'll be more limited to following the existing layout (since moving around all the load bearing walls will be a much bigger ask).
Cython only cares about one peak though.
[x] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[x] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
[x] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
2e Realms of Sorcery.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Divine Vitae
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
I don't think the Silver Tower is the better location simply because it's the same colour as some mercenaries' pikes. The added accessibility is much better.
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
I don't think the Silver Tower is the better location simply because it's the same colour as some mercenaries' pikes. The added accessibility is much better.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Hey now, i 100% agree with that sentiment. People overestimate literacy of local makeup and overestimate the unwillingness of people to make the trek if they actually do need to know something.
The accessibility is frankly just flat out not even a concern.
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- Location
- Earth
If accessibility was not important enough to consider, then we would not have two Karag Nar options that emphasize the contrast of accessibility to Mathilde vs the public. By all means, you can choose not to care about it, but it's not a nonfactor.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
That seems more like a political decision of "i own this" and "i want to make this available to all" statement. Either way, even if i am wrong about that, scholars will just be happy there is a big-ass library, and will walk any distance regardless. Just like the wizards did when they needed a book for their reading. Picking a mountain to put it in based on how close it is to everyone is the "accessibility is a nonfactor" scenario i am talking here about.
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
- Location
- Florida
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[x] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[x] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
[x] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
- Pronouns
- They
[] Picklepikkl
[x] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[x] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
My eyes glaze over the plans, but pickle keeps up to date.
[x] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords
[x] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
My eyes glaze over the plans, but pickle keeps up to date.
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