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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight

More magic understanding is always great, but I feel more languages fall flat of the ability to stop the constant fighting for few moments.
There are so many actors and polities that we'll have to talk to and try to find out what should happen for them to put down the axe/bow, in course of the Waystone project. Like (Northern) Empire and Elves, or Dwarves and Elves, or maybe even Russians and Elves. So many compromises to make.
 
Anything but Trucemaker, I really don't want black-and-white "order vs destruction" mindset to creep further into Mathilde, even if that option doesn't logically mean it strictly speaking, but, eh, it's unlikely that it wouldn't.
Also it's a pleasant surprise that Dhar insight wasn't rejected, heh.

[x] DIPLO: Collegiate
[x] DIPLO: Mentor
[x] DIPLO: Polyglot
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[x] LESSON: Leader
 
Rafin said:
BoneyM already said that he is taking a lot of inspiration from 4e because other sources are sparse. So while it is definitely not a given, there's a bigger than baseline chance of those rookeries being a thing.

So you are right in warning people that none of that should be considered quest canon and that we shouldn't get our hopes up. But there has also been no injunction against bringing up the possibility and trying to ban arguments based on supposed thread rules goes too far.
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Here we go, dug up his exact words on the matter.
BoneyM said:
Unless I explicitly say otherwise, assume 'no' for anything from 4e.
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It's not "Ignore anything from 4e except what I say", it's "Assume everything from 4e doesn't exist except what I say". So on the matter of the dragon tower, we shouldn't be thinking it might exist, we should be thinking it does not and will not exist unless Boney says otherwise on the matter. The most he's said on the matter so far is that he'll look at the 4e stuff eventually and grab what fits.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
So we know that Mathilde can't use divine magic ever, but Theurgy is firmly in the camp of "try it and find out."

I strongly suspect that if we wish to pursue that path, Theologian would be a useful, possibly even necessary, trait for us.

Definitely better than Mystic, which I suspect would lock us out of that path (but the Mystic trait would mean that gods are less likely to smite us for trying to dissect their miracles like frogs).
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I'm pretty sure Mystic totally locks us out of theurgy, it's path of the gods are inscrutable. Theologian is the path of integrating them more totally into her arcane world view.

Also not going to lie I'm blown away that dhar insight is the top voted lesson, given it's something we're astonishingly unlikely to make use of.. feels so weird. Then again maybe team necromancy is on the ascendency after the forum died was raised again.
 
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matvprok said:
Anything but Trucemaker, I really don't want black-and-white "order vs destruction" mindset to creep further into Mathilde, even if that option doesn't logically mean it strictly speaking, but, eh, it's unlikely that it wouldn't.
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She'd be learning the lesson from an expedition on which she broke bread with three different chaos-aligned groups, and found a chaos-aligned creature guarding a seemingly-still-loyal dwarfhold.

I really don't see the lesson being "we shouldn't ally with 'destro' factions"
 
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
[X] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker

[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[X] LESSON: Light Fingers
[X] LESSON: Syncretic
[X] LESSON: Theologian
 
Rafin said:
I haven't seen anyone sweettalk this option or give their perspective and you are the only person with several hundred posts under your belt that chose this as the only Lesson option to vote for. Are you willing to share your perspective?

Especially in this vote where everything is beneficial and we are voting for which mechanical buff and/or character trait acknowledgment badge we subjectively like the most, I am quite interested in seeing other people's perspectives that I am not quite able to wrap my head around.

If you don't want to be put on the spot, just ignore my request.
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Honestly, I just really enjoy the scenes where Mathilde steals from her enemies.
I don't think that it is the best choice there is.
I just want to steal more.
 
Andres110 said:
From 4e, which you should ignore. Pretend does not exist. Voting with influence from it and attempting to influence others using information we should ignore and that doesn't apply to this quest are not things we should do.
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Andres110 said:
It may be something that Boney uses, yes. That doesn't change that he told us to ignore 4e, of which Archives of the Empire forms a part of, except the very specific bits he's used. It's permitted to bring up the Archives stuff that's showed up in this quest, such as the existence of the lornalim trees, but not the Archives stuff that hasn't showed up in this quest, like the dragon tower, even if it's something Boney might use at some point in the future.

Is this something you're declaring on your own authority or has Boney actually said something to this effect?
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Andres110 said:
It's not "Ignore anything from 4e except what I say", it's "Assume everything from 4e doesn't exist except what I say". So on the matter of the dragon tower, we shouldn't be thinking it might exist, we should be thinking it does not and will not exist unless Boney says otherwise on the matter. The most he's said on the matter so far is that he'll look at the 4e stuff eventually and grab what fits.
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I'll police this sort of thing myself if it gets out of hand, and so far it hasn't. People are keeping their attention within the narrow sliver of 4e stuff that has been introduced and maintaining awareness that it may or may not end up existing in the quest version of Laurelorn. Please leave people be when they're engaging in harmless speculation, you've jumped on people a number of times already on this matter.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
I'm pretty sure Mystic totally locks us out of theurgy, it's path of the gods are inscrutable. Theologian is the path of integrating them more totally into her arcane world view.

Also not going to lie I'm blown away that dhar insight is the top voted lesson, given it's something we're astonishingly unlikely to make use of.. feels so weird. Then again maybe team necromancy is on the ascendency after the forum died was raised again.
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As a counterargument, remember how as per Boney, the thing which lets human do Wild Shit elven wizards wouldn't (aside from inherent mutability) is, well, mysticism of their magical tradition?
At least in this version of WHFB, mysticism is very much a viable path to power, and "mystic locks us out" is, I feel, not something supported by the text.

Dhar Insight is top voted because we keep running into issues where knowing more about it could make things easier, most notably "waystones gone bad dhar out" and "maybe it will finally let us make use of Windherder", latter being a sunk cost thing, admittedly.
 
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
This is brilliant.

[X] DIPLO: Dawri
But I like this.



[X] LESSON: Leader
Useful, & good for what we plan to be doing next.
[X] LESSON: Logistician
Also useful and with a mind for the future.

[X]LESSON: Dhar Insight
But this? . . . Look, I'm not saying I want to use the Nuclear Omegahugger Option, I'm just saying if we did, it should be the biggest possible. Also yea, maybe help us purify waystones I guess.
 
kingreaper said:
She'd be learning the lesson from an expedition on which she broke bread with three different chaos-aligned groups, and found a chaos-aligned creature guarding a seemingly-still-loyal dwarfhold.

I really don't see the lesson being "we shouldn't ally with 'destro' factions"
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Yeah, I think the people boosting Trucemaker on the grounds of "maybe we can get elves and dwarves to cooperate!" are looking at it the wrong way. This is a lesson learned from making truces with Chaos nomads and peacefully doing business with the Dawi Zharr. Not from getting people who "should" be on the same team to play nice, getting people who are very definitely on opposite teams to set aside hostility for a short period.
SuperSonicSound said:
Also not going to lie I'm blown away that dhar insight is the top voted lesson, given it's something we're astonishingly unlikely to make use of.. feels so weird. Then again maybe team necromancy is on the ascendency after the forum died was raised again.
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It looks like people want it, not for necromantic purposes, but for "dunking on Chaos" purposes, similar to our Waaagh insight.
Rafin said:
Once their nutrition and civilization becomes so high that food is not a bottleneck anymore and using stuff originally meant for one thing to instead do a different specialized job becomes more normalized, I'm pretty sure that the We will have no problem repurposing some of their wombs into siege engines. Currently they are only too valuable because having many is too costly and reproduction is too important to risk the few that they do have.
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Mmmmmaaaaaaaybe? The issue is that, well, the We are only a distributed intelligence when they maintain physical proximity with one another. Absent the Echo, they're just animals -- clever animals, but animals. Since Egg-Layers' natural state is to stay well away from combat (they don't even have fangs!), I am dubious whether an isolated Egg-Layer would be trainable as a siege engine. And if you want to instead keep it in contact with the rest of the We so training isn't an issue, you face the other issue of bringing the entire hive with you -- or creating an entirely new We who exists only for war, which is a whole different can of worms. Or spiders, as the case may be.
ctulhuslp said:
"maybe it will finally let us make use of Windherder", latter being a sunk cost thing, admittedly.
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We don't need Dhar insight to make use of Windherder. Windherder already lets us combine spells in close proximity without fear of Dhar.
BoneyM said:
Windherder: You've developed an intuitive grasp of how Winds interact, when they'll interfere with each other, and when they'll mix and curdle into Dhar. Makes basic multi-Wind Enchantment and Spellcasting possible, as long as other Wizards provide the other Winds.
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We just don't make use of Windherder because 1) AP hell 2) the "basic" possibilities presented by Windherder aren't very exciting and convincing the thread to spend 1 AP on something to find out what non basic possibilities lie behind it is much worse than pulling teeth.
 
[x] DIPLO: Collegiate
[x] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
[x] DIPLO: Mentor
[x] DIPLO: Polyglot
[x] DIPLO: Trucemaker
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[x] LESSON: Leader
[x] LESSON: Logistician
[x] LESSON: Theologian

I just can't choose...
 
[x] DIPLO: Collegiate
[x] DIPLO: Draconic Fascination
[x] DIPLO: Mentor
[x] DIPLO: Trucemaker
[x] LESSON: Logistician
[x] LESSON: Mystic
[x] LESSON: Poker Face
 
picklepikkl said:
We just don't make use of Windherder because 1) AP hell 2) the "basic" possibilities presented by Windherder aren't very exciting and convincing the thread to spend 1 AP on something to find out what non basic possibilities lie behind it is much worse than pulling teeth.
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not to mention the few times we have looked into the long term projects, more than a few people went 'welp, no instant satisfaction, I declare this research path pointless!'
 
Yeah i honestly don't think Trucemaker is that much of a coup, especially in the current setting. Its for getting wildly divergent factions that are about stone throw from slaughtering each other, like, say, an Ice Dragon and Dwarfs, to shut up and not kill us dead while we deal with mutual annoyance. Not for settling academic disputes on campus where two sides are very racist but otherwise have no real truck with each other. Polyglot should, at least, let us leverage the new fancy esoteric library lot better however.
 
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