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On the subject of AV, the elves may well be best placed to help with a number of our other research projects. Be it the nature of the divine or how to bind Apparitions or other spirits, they may have something to bring to the table. These projects aren't Waystones, but they could also help the world.

They may well also have access to other things that would make Mathilde herself more capable of helping with the program that are easier to access if she's there. For example, learning multi-Wind enchantment techniques, or Aonoquean*, or exercise regimes to hone Magesight.

* As we're trying to reverse engineer devices that are likely enchanted using this and Arcane Khazalid, learning both seems like a good plan.
 
Be it the nature of the divine or how to bind Apparitions or other spirits, they may have something to bring to the table

I'd argue the Ice Witches could help with the former (Ice magic appears to be partly divine) whilst the Hag Witches could help with the latter (they use spirit magic).

Also, Boney's pointed out a few times that Elves tend to get confused by human spellcasting traditions. Like our shiny new spell, Rite of Way—many elves would consider that impossible to cast or create, and yet we did it anyway.

I'm not saying the elven deep lore won't be useful to us—it will—but it's not the only option on the table.
 
Back during the job vote, I argued quite strongly in favour of Waystones and spent time listing the benefits of K8P's on the assumption that it was the best place for it. I argued against Markgraf for reasons of distance, in part, from K8P's and difficulty in retaining our circle of underlings and friends. I had no illusions as to where I'd be voting as the place to carry out the research on Waystones. Even as we voted for places to look into, in my hubris, I voted for Kislev and Laurelorn in the clear belief that it would change nothing and I'd faithfully vote for K8P's as a true dwarf-souled would.

I was a fool, SV. Ranald's Avatar, @BoneyM saw mine, and others, asumptions and hubris and responded with devastating force.

Now I stand before you all, broken and wretched, laid low by the honeyed words and blandishments of a sexy forest, scandalously flashing her exclusive library card. The equivalent of flashing her ankles if we were in the Victorian era. Not content with that, she loosened her bodice and revealed the authors of some of libraries contents. Mathilde and most of SV swooned, while in Karak Eight Peaks, Panoramia paused in her planting and frowned in the direction of Laurelorn.

After many fortifying drinks (pints of brandy for Mathilde, I had tea since I'm a stereotype), Mathilde pulled herself together and went to Kislev. A calm, straightforward meeting with an Ice Witch or the leader of Praag would be just the remedy to gather strength to push back the insidious tendrils of the sexy forest and promise of a scantily clad library, I thought to myself, as I downed my tenth cup in less than four hours.

Then we met Prince Boris and once more was I cast down. The Prince was nobly training his guardsmen so they might become less squishy. Like a true gentleman he dragged two chairs in front of the fire, made from wood he personally hewed himself, while fighting the yhetis bear-chested, upon his bear steed. He looked deeply into Mathilde's eyes, his own shining with pent up emotion, as he looked at the woman who had already done so much for his country without even meaning to. "I am a simple Kislevite, I kill Chaos, ride my bear steed and lumberjack on the side. I had given up, as many do in this land, planning to sell my life as dearly as possible. But now, because of your actions, I have HOPE!" he thundered in a whisper. In the background a bear roared, a cat meowed and a sentient blizzard flash froze a cultist.

After such powerful sales pitches, I can only trust in Ranald. So, I flipped a coin four times. Got heads thrice and tails once. Ranald has spoken.

[X] Kislev
[] Laurelorn
 
I'd argue the Ice Witches could help with the former (Ice magic appears to be partly divine) whilst the Hag Witches could help with the latter (they use spirit magic).

Also, Boney's pointed out a few times that Elves tend to get confused by human spellcasting traditions. Like our shiny new spell, Rite of Way—many elves would consider that impossible to cast or create, and yet we did it anyway.

I'm not saying the elven deep lore won't be useful to us—it will—but it's not the only option on the table.

I do not recall he said elves would find it impossible. Do you have a quote on that?

From what I recall he said elves would take much longer to make a spell, because they use more science and less instinct.
 
I'd argue the Ice Witches could help with the former (Ice magic appears to be partly divine) whilst the Hag Witches could help with the latter (they use spirit magic).

Also, Boney's pointed out a few times that Elves tend to get confused by human spellcasting traditions. Like our shiny new spell, Rite of Way—many elves would consider that impossible to cast or create, and yet we did it anyway.

I'm not saying the elven deep lore won't be useful to us—it will—but it's not the only option on the table.
The hags are experts at haggling with spirits, this is true, but it is elves of Athel Loren and Laurelorn that have been striking pacts and living alongside them since time immemorial. They will have less controlling view on them, but insider perspective could be invaluable, should they be willing to share it.

Note that the more esoteric wood elf magic is strange indeed, and not at all similar to things Asur do. (Although the weird examples come from Athel Loren because Laurelorn is minimally fleshed out)
 
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I don't think we're meant to talk about that one. Although I am surprised it occurs in setting, its a phenomena that seems pretty specific to the modern prison system.

Championed by Shallyans and put into law by Magnus, the Lex Imperialis Salvationis et Misericordiae set forth a legal code that moved the Empire away from mutilation and execution and towards imprisonment. Proper Shallyan-run prisons try to teach a trade to encourage inmates to better their lives, while more typical ones simply seek to defray the costs of maintaining prisons and line the pockets of the wardens. And on a historical note penal labour has a longer history than you might think, the British were practicing it from the early 1600s, both at home to provide necessary goods to the navy and abroad to provide labour to their colonies.
 
Although I am surprised it occurs in setting, its a phenomena that seems pretty specific to the modern prison system.
Championed by Shallyans and put into law by Magnus, the Lex Imperialis Salvationis et Misericordiae set forth a legal code that moved the Empire away from mutilation and execution and towards imprisonment. Proper Shallyan-run prisons try to teach a trade to encourage inmates to better their lives, while more typical ones simply seek to defray the costs of maintaining prisons and line the pockets of the wardens. And on a historical note penal labour has a longer history than you might think, the British were practicing it from the early 1600s, both at home to provide necessary goods to the navy and abroad to provide labour to their colonies.
There's prototypes of penal labour in the Roman Empire too, though the conditions were bad enough at times that it was considered the second-harshest sentence after death due to the lethality rate of working in the mines.
 
The original Gehenna was an elf though, so the elven paradigm has spirit binding.
It also has elementals... Somewhere, given the existence of Bok
The existence of Asrai and Eonir is a testament to enactment of one of the greatest deals with spirits ever made (should you not consider warp gods spirits). The Ancient Treemen did the heavy lifting, but i doubt dealing with spirits overall is something Eonir are not very good at.
 
I do not recall he said elves would find it impossible. Do you have a quote on that?

From what I recall he said elves would take much longer to make a spell, because they use more science and less instinct.

I was thinking of this comment in particular:

Mathilde: "So I did the math and the theory didn't work out so the spell seemed impossible."
Elf: "Yeah that happens sometimes, don't get discouraged-"
Mathilde: "So I just jumped into it and followed my instincts and it worked out fine."
Elf: "What the fuck."
Mathilde: "No idea how or why it works but it does, here, watch me cast it."
Elf: "What the fuck."


So maybe impossible was the wrong word for me to use, but it appears that elven and human insights into magic are not always compatible with each other.
 
Of the ones that predate DL: Warhammer Dynasty, Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism, Glory and Grudges, Paradox of Choice, honourable mention to 40k's The Long Night.
Gaius Marius of Warhammer Dynasty over there in SB is a true hero for combining CK2 rules and warhammer and starting this whole trend all those years ago.

[X] Kislev
 
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Back during the job vote, I argued quite strongly in favour of Waystones and spent time listing the benefits of K8P's on the assumption that it was the best place for it. I argued against Markgraf for reasons of distance, in part, from K8P's and difficulty in retaining our circle of underlings and friends. I had no illusions as to where I'd be voting as the place to carry out the research on Waystones. Even as we voted for places to look into, in my hubris, I voted for Kislev and Laurelorn in the clear belief that it would change nothing and I'd faithfully vote for K8P's as a true dwarf-souled would.

I was a fool, SV. Ranald's Avatar, @BoneyM saw mine, and others, asumptions and hubris and responded with devastating force.

Now I stand before you all, broken and wretched, laid low by the honeyed words and blandishments of a sexy forest, scandalously flashing her exclusive library card. The equivalent of flashing her ankles if we were in the Victorian era. Not content with that, she loosened her bodice and revealed the authors of some of libraries contents. Mathilde and most of SV swooned, while in Karak Eight Peaks, Panoramia paused in her planting and frowned in the direction of Laurelorn.

After many fortifying drinks (pints of brandy for Mathilde, I had tea since I'm a stereotype), Mathilde pulled herself together and went to Kislev. A calm, straightforward meeting with an Ice Witch or the leader of Praag would be just the remedy to gather strength to push back the insidious tendrils of the sexy forest and promise of a scantily clad library, I thought to myself, as I downed my tenth cup in less than four hours.

Then we met Prince Boris and once more was I cast down. The Prince was nobly training his guardsmen so they might become less squishy. Like a true gentleman he dragged two chairs in front of the fire, made from wood he personally hewed himself, while fighting the yhetis bear-chested, upon his bear steed. He looked deeply into Mathilde's eyes, his own shining with pent up emotion, as he looked at the woman who had already done so much for his country without even meaning to. "I am a simple Kislevite, I kill Chaos, ride my bear steed and lumberjack on the side. I had given up, as many do in this land, planning to sell my life as dearly as possible. But now, because of your actions, I have HOPE!" he thundered in a whisper. In the background a bear roared, a cat meowed and a sentient blizzard flash froze a cultist.

After such powerful sales pitches, I can only trust in Ranald. So, I flipped a coin four times. Got heads thrice and tails once. Ranald has spoken.

[X] Kislev
[] Laurelorn
You are an inspiration, sir
 
The existence of Asrai and Eonir is a testament to enactment of one of the greatest deals with spirits ever made (should you not consider warp gods spirits). The Ancient Treemen did the heavy lifting, but i doubt dealing with spirits overall is something Eonir are not very good at.
I think you might be overly conflating Asrai with Eonir.

We know the former obviously have a whole giant thing with tree spirits going on, we have less confirmation with the latter.

Every time the thread has been locked, the impression I've got from some quarters in the aftermath is that the future of Warhammer quests on SV is far from certain.
Like.... really? It's not like the WH quests are the only ones that have had an overly large amount of vitriol, the most talked about event in that regard on this site was over boat design in a quest involving no trademarked properties.

If the staff feels like they get a lot of reports from the WH quests, I do have to wonder if that's mostly because... well, they're really popular.

Not to say we can't work to be better, we obviously can, but I don't think it's the fault of the property that we go overboard.


RE: Spider silk, I don't think there's any crossover in the skills involved in magically teaching thousands of tiny spiders to weave something for you and taking giant threads of silk to weave something yourself.
 
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I suspect that even if Elven craftsmen did know some neat things about working spider silk, Dwarven craftsmen of the present day wouldn't be very happy to learn it from them.
Belebro tries to do the 'right' way. He got boicotted for his trouble.

If the darn elves managed to get the chailmail silk (like a sort of medieval kevlar) working and producing, with dwarven QC and elven spells binding, it will greatly-greatly-greatly increase his income and defence.

Dwarf are quite anal about tradition. They are also practical enough not to reject money.
 
We know the former obviously have a whole giant thing with tree spirits going on, we have less confirmation with the latter.
This is entirely fair, but the reason why Laurelorn has not been razed to the ground by dwarfs is that the Grey Lords yeeted an army of spirits at the dwarf throng.

I don't expect Eonir to have the same level of dealings with spirits as Asrai do, but i suspect great level of competence in similar vein regardless. The Eonir have to deal with forest spirits, its just that the spirits apparently tend to be weaker, less aggressive and less numerous. Laurelorn is still very much a sentient forest.
 
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