Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Feeding solely on Dhar gets you a Necrarch, I think Varghiests take something more.
I think I've heard Warpstone is involved?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think I've heard Warpstone is involved?
- Location
- Washington
Being turned into a vamprie by a Necrarch is what gets you a Necrarch, Necrarchs are just also notoriously uninterested in bothering to not feed on any Dhar.
That said I'm not convinced Vargheists are actually permanently killable rather than simply not something even those who revive Vampires are generally interested in attempting to revive.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Not sure.
There's a suggestion on the Wiki that Necrarch's have some special trick that lets them subsist purely on Dhar while only becoming somewhat monstrous - so it might simply be that Vargheists are what happens when you're stuck with Dhar and don't know the trick.
EDIT: According to the WHFRP 2e "Night's Dark Masters" only one Necrarch, Zacharias the Everliving, is actually able to go without blood entirely rather than merely reduce their blood intake.
EDIT2: And Zacharias drank a dragon. So he doesn't really count.
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TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Odd, if they're completely cut off from the Aethyr, how do they use magic still?
Are there any other ways of destroying souls?
For that matter, if magic can be used to bind the soul to the body, might there be some way to unbind it?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
They've been described as a Dhar vortex. Their soul is now bound to their body, but I don't know if they're cut-off per-se.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
There are two parts to this: 1) They can call on the Winds that are already in the world. That's a pretty common method of casting to begin with - drawing directly from the Aethyr is dangerous IIRC.
2) The blood they drink serves to steal some aspect of the link from their victims. They may be able to channel, in part, through that link.
For both of those I have no idea - clearly the Empire isn't aware of a way, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
- Location
- Lowton
Has anyone suggested looking into the second secret of dahr and our vampire skulls to try and research more permanent kill means? There are so many pages of discussion I have no idea
- Location
- Canada
The only known source of Vargheists, or at least the only one I know of, is the Von Carnsteins
They lock their family who have fallen from favor in stone sarcophigi or coffins hung upside down deep inside cave networks under their castles
There the unfortunate vampire is slowly driven mad by their inability to feed, being unable to die of the thirst that wracks their body is apparently the greatest of torments a vampire can ever experience
Over the course of decades water, tainted by both warpstone in the stalagtites they are hung from and the general soil of Sylvania, drips into their prisons, and in their desperation for blood the soon to be Vargheist drinks
Over many years this process causes them to devolve, destroying their mind and mutating their form into a more bestial, batlike creature
Eventually they grow large and strong enough to crack open their prisons, stripped of name and personality, and fly off to tear into the first living creature they can find to finally taste blood again, permanently reduced to a ravening beast
I'll note however that I can't find any indications that a Vargheist isn't still immortal
The process certainly warps their body and destroys their sanity, but I'm unsure about the status of their soul
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- Location
- Aotearoa
Quite likely suggested somewhere upstream, however it fails to appeal due to the whole 'this involves investigating and/or using Dhar, breaches the Articles and makes us a Black Magister and pariah' part.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Vampire skulls are something we can examine, for sure. The trouble with testing permanent-kill solutions though is that you can't tell if they're really gone, or if they just started reconstituting from some tiny blood spatter on the other side of the country.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
If they aren't permanently killable convenient means, is there any convenient means of tossing them into Chaos and letting the demons play with them?
- Location
- Spain
You know there is quite a problem with that, and that is why It would be good to know how good is Mathilde as a shooter, or at least her effective range with both kinds of guns.
I mean, a modern .38 revolver can theoretically can reach a maximum distance of 700 meter, but it mostly depends on the ability of the shooter, an average joe with some training can effective range is around 50 meter, an experienced shooter around 150 meters, but then is a bunch of EXTREMELY talented shooters can shot a target from 2 kilometters away with said revolver.
I mean it is important to know a rough estiemate of the effective range of Mathilde with both the Marksdwarf and the revolvers, because if it is at a similar distance with both there is no reason to change the revolvers for the marksdwarf, and if we need to use AP to actually becoming good at snipping with the pistol, there are far superior options for that niche that we can buy, that will also require AP investment, but it may be worth it.
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This sounds like an extraordinarily bad idea. Like, incredibly bad.
What happens when one of them decides to just cut a deal?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Mathilde has never shot a rifle in her life, so she'd struggle to hit the broad side of a barn. Changing this isn't worth the AP investment when the marksdwarf pistol is theoretically capable of hitting all relevant ranges.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Hmm. An unkillable Everchosen would be inconvenient. But if they're cut off from the aethyr, can undead even get chaos corrupted? In a lot of ways they're kind of like polar opposites.
- Location
- Aotearoa
We're already carrying both, though. No need to swap one for the other. There might be debate about which 'set' to Rune, I suppose, if it's an either/or situation.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Throwing their physical body into the Aethyr would seem likely to overcome the "they're not connected to the Aethyr" issue.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Isn't the whole reason why Chaos hates Undead that they can't corrupt them? Settra literally agreed to fight on their behalf in exchange for them arranging a rematch with Nagash, and was able to just say "fuck that" when it came time to uphold his end of the bargain.
But yes, trying to get rid of Undead by tossing them to Chaos is a phenomenally bad idea, simply for the reason that tearing open rifts into the Realm of Chaos to toss them through is bound to end in disaster.
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TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
That's the only thing keeping them alive though, right?
The metaphysics here are awfully confusing.
- Location
- Canada
I believe there have been discussions about permanent solutions to vampire immortality before
Boney's word on the matter at least were that people have been trying for a very long time, and the best solution they've reached is just keeping a vigil over the vampire's remains, rather than trying to destroy them and risking them reconstituting somewhere else unchecked
Trying to throw them into the Warp or offer them up to Daemons quickly runs into the problem where you are consorting with the forces of Chaos, or at least trying to use them as a tool, which has a bad track record of going well and is generally frowned upon
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Especially as she only has one back - and she's carrying her staff on it. Carrying a rifle in her hands while sneaking would be awkward, and I don't think dwarven rifles are designed for field-assembly.
If we'd taken Alkharad's "how to be a vampire" books we might know more, but at the moment it's confusing to Mathilde too - and everyone else for that matter. Hell, most vampires don't know what's going on with them.
- Location
- Spain
I wasn´t talking about the rifle though... But a runic crossbow with enough DF can very well become a ranged Branhulde, and since the Research institute will give us a few extra actions in the research departemnt, it may be interesting to use some of the freed action on learning that.
I mean I can understand getting runes on our revolvers, they are a straight up upgrade from our current weapons... But getting a runic Marksdwarf pistol seem like the worst option to have a "single shoot, long range, and extremely precise" kind of weapon because there are mcu better alternatives to cover that niche, especially if we needed AP to learn how to snipe with the pistol.
IIRC since we changes to the slots for inventory we are only carrying the revolvers with us on our "ranged" slot.
This is probably OOC information, but since both items will be on their slots, there wont be any kind of awkwardness on Mathilde moving or fighting or carrying things, and that is confirmed by boney.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think it's a bit... eh.
Far as I'm aware, Vargheists didn't exist until 8th edition, and the 8th edition VC book is practically just concerned with the Von Carsteins. So I'm not sure they'd talk about other sources of Vargheists even if they do exist.
(Side-note, while looking through the VC army books to confirm I'm not talking out of my ass here, I realized that, as described in 7th edition, where they first appeared, Vargulfs are literally just Strigoi- though this gets retconned in 8th)
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
Longarms are incredibly easy to use compared to pistols.
I see that we're at the "how to get rid of vampires" stage of things. Very well then, I'd like to suggest that recent events have opened up a new pathway to vampire riddance.
Step 1: Make contact with the divine being represented by the shrine to Mannsleib
Step 2: Make bargain to accept vampire prisoners
Step 3: Use a giant steam-powered rocket to launch them to the Moooooooooon!
Step 1: Make contact with the divine being represented by the shrine to Mannsleib
Step 2: Make bargain to accept vampire prisoners
Step 3: Use a giant steam-powered rocket to launch them to the Moooooooooon!