Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The caravans are just a part. Probably the smaller part, frankly- it's the ship-based trade that's the real issue. Norscans and Drucchi and what-not.
Sure, but unfortunately I don't think we can do much about that. Way farther from friendly lines, harder to intercept, and harder targets too. I'm open to suggestions but I'm struggling to think of anything that would put a dent in the problem that the Chorfs couldn't adapt to.

I mean, my idea is putting a fortress next to the water and blowing up anyone that tries to get close to Uzkulak.

It's probably not viable, for a number of reasons, but as long as the effort stayed there, it wouldn't be because more traders show up.
While it would be nice, I just don't think it's tenable to maintain a presence so far north. If you're serious about it, vote to do an extensive investigation into the state of the Norse Dwarfs, because surviving outposts would be key to making it happen.

Personally, if Belegar gave us the task of putting a stop to it tomorrow? I'd vote to weaponize Vitae and then try to smuggle in enough barrels to turn the place into a crater.

How do they even get sea trade? I was under the impression that all the water on that map was ice, hence how the previous expedition could go directly across it.
Ice can be broken, and if it's too thick to be broken, that means you can push your boat across it. These are mostly longboats which are probably small enough to be rolled across land atop logs if needed. Larger vessels are probably Druchii and have shenanigans involved. The ice might also just melt for part of the year.

We could probably settle for an ironclad though. Maybe a slightly stretched version, with room for extra wizards? And a (conning)tower. Because wizard. ;)
Unironically, yes, this sounds fun. A dreadnought is overkill and probably also designed around having some level of attendant fleet. An oversized ironclad designed for long legs and expedition support would enable us to do so much though.

Periodic convoys headed by a Chaos Dwarf Icebreaker.
Oh, hey, that's a vulnerability. I mean, you're still engaging a convoy, and the convoy would get reinforced once you began to harass them, but it's a problem that's quite a bit more narrow in scope.
 
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If you're serious about it, vote to do an extensive investigation into the state of the Norse Dwarfs, because surviving outposts would be key to making it happen.
The Norse Dwarfs are in entirely the wrong spot. The Chorfs and traders would just go 30 miles more out to sea and be out of range.

Looking at the map Boney's using:
We already brought back the best existing fall-back position in Vlag.

Best place I could see for my idea would be the mountains north of High Pass.


I recognize this probably wouldn't occur, but I don't see a better way to do it.
 
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The Norse Dwarfs are in entirely the wrong spot. The Chorfs and traders would just go 30 miles more out to sea and be out of range.
Well, yes and no. Depends where you plan to intercept them. If you're talking about building your hypothetical fort so that its' guns cover the whole inlet... you're never going to get it finished.
You would have to build something way farther out, and rely on sallying naval forces out of it to intercept traffic. There's absolutely not a hope in hell that you could manage to build a fortress next to Uzkulak, next to a busy Chaos sealane, when you'd have at least three different Chaos aligned polities set on stopping you. In which case the Norse Dwarfs may become very relevant to maintaining a supply line.

Rolled? What weak southerner nonsense is this?
Truly, too powerful for my feeble wizard mind to comprehend.
 
@Jyn Ryvia

Could you add something along the lines of "If yours actions in protecting one group redirects a threat towards a second group this counts as you having caused the threat to the second group"

Or "Even if you didn't intend to cause a danger, dangers that exist as a result of your actions will not proc the blessing"

As this does seem to be an important thing to record for future knowledge.
sure, I was going to wait until we got back. but why not.
 
Yeah, if we want to actually stop Uzkulak, we don't aim at Uzkulak, we aim at the traders. No traders, no trade city.
I think the closest we could come to that would be to conquer/reclaim/destroy Sartosa?

I'm not sure how feasible that is, pirates in this setting are real competent... but so are we and this is a project we could theoretically get every order faction to chip in on.

I bet you a good number or Chaos Vegas's numbers are pirates from Sartosa, plus not having to deal with those pirates would cut down on naval casualties for all order factions and allow them for the order factions to better concentrate on the other naval threats.

Especially important considering it seems like most international slave trading with Uzkulak involved naval stuff.

It's not a perfect solution, but it'd probably help a lot.
 
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I mean, talabecland has a pretty good river network.
To raid up the river Talabec would require sailing straight through Marienburg and passing by Altdorf. Honestly fair play to the Norscan raiders if they manage that because that's honestly pretty impressive especially because they would have have to sail back after they are done.
 
I'm not sure how feasible that is, pirates in this setting are real competent... but so are we and this is a project we could theoretically get every order faction to chip in on.

Very theoretically. "Of course we have no dealings with the mercenaries and pirates of Sartosa, even though their numbers are very large and their services are very available for purchase! Of course we never hire them to harry our rivals or guard our convoys! Of course we never purchase incredibly valuable goods from them at very low prices, nor do we export luxuries to them despite their willingness to pay a premium! What's that, contribute to an assault against them? Well, of course we would very much like to do that, but unfortunately..."
 
Nobody asks you, as your Journeymanlings were too few in number to assault an entire mountain, but in the privacy of your own mind you have to admit that you wouldn't trust either Johann or Maximilian with that level of temptation, and you weren't too sure about Panoramia either.
When he saw you watching him practice he claimed it acted as a focus for the spell, but he was stammering far too hard for you to believe him. You try not to judge him too harshly - being a Wizard all too often involves a childhood cut short, and you suppose there's no harm in him reclaiming his.
. He's shifted his approach, and now he joins in with whatever task is underway, and the insights plucked from Chamon are now being delivered as a suggestion from a fellow labourer rather than the lofty wisdom of an overseer. It's won him wary friendship from the Dwarves and suspicion from you. Maybe you're being paranoid, but the Grey College teaches that when you find yourself thinking 'maybe I'm being paranoid', you should be more so.

In any case, he hasn't shown worrying interest in Dwarvern devices, nor has he disappeared underground to go poking around for the local rats and their technosorcerous toys. That you know of.
Re-reading, and I really just adore Mathilde being suspicious at people.

1st is enchantment, windherder theoretically allows for multi-wind enchantment so I hope Tongs make things easier and/or allow us to advance in its use.
We could also work together with another wizard who was already an expert in controlling their wind.
Personally, if Belegar gave us the task of putting a stop to it tomorrow? I'd vote to weaponize Vitae and then try to smuggle in enough barrels to turn the place into a crater.
If we really had to do the job, this would probably be our best shot, aside from maybe necromancy. I think, sadly, that hurting them, by reducing their trade through the High Pass Is the most damage were going to be able to do. Vlag (will eventually) really like us, so I'm sure we could convince them to post some extra rangers to keep an eye on which caravans secretly divert to Uzkulak instead of Cathay, and crush them when they try to return.
 
Very theoretically. "Of course we have no dealings with the mercenaries and pirates of Sartosa, even though their numbers are very large and their services are very available for purchase! Of course we never hire them to harry our rivals or guard our convoys! Of course we never purchase incredibly valuable goods from them at very low prices, nor do we export luxuries to them despite their willingness to pay a premium! What's that, contribute to an assault against them? Well, of course we would very much like to do that, but unfortunately..."
Or in other words- Uzkulak is in the Darklands and guarded by Chaos Dwarfs, who are still Dwarfs and therefore know quite a bit about fortresses and unity.

Sartosa is right next to major order polities and has about as much unity as the average Skaven city.

There's a reason Sartosa has lasted this long without getting wiped out.
 
Sartosa is right next to major order polities and has about as much unity as the average Skaven city.

It's a good comparison. No matter how much they fight each other, when attacked they band together very reliably. And Sartosa has a lot of wealth, and not just from piracy. Its soil is very fertile and well suited to grapes and olives, and from the bountiful oceans it's surrounded by comes a lot of seafood and a lot of pearls. It's also considered sacred to Ranald by some, as according to legend it was created when an adrift sailor called out to all the Gods in turn to save him, and when he finally called out to Ranald, Ranald set off a volcano under him.
 
It's a good comparison. No matter how much they fight each other, when attacked they band together very reliably. And Sartosa has a lot of wealth, and not just from piracy. Its soil is very fertile and well suited to grapes and olives, and from the bountiful oceans it's surrounded by comes a lot of seafood and a lot of pearls. It's also considered sacred to Ranald by some, as according to legend it was created when an adrift sailor called out to all the Gods in turn to save him, and when he finally called out to Ranald, Ranald set off a volcano under him.
That is so like him. Definitely best god. :V
 
It's a good comparison. No matter how much they fight each other, when attacked they band together very reliably. And Sartosa has a lot of wealth, and not just from piracy. Its soil is very fertile and well suited to grapes and olives, and from the bountiful oceans it's surrounded by comes a lot of seafood and a lot of pearls. It's also considered sacred to Ranald by some, as according to legend it was created when an adrift sailor called out to all the Gods in turn to save him, and when he finally called out to Ranald, Ranald set off a volcano under him.
If we are ever in the area we should go on a pilgrimage since Ranald has so few sacred areas.
 
It's a good comparison. No matter how much they fight each other, when attacked they band together very reliably. And Sartosa has a lot of wealth, and not just from piracy. Its soil is very fertile and well suited to grapes and olives, and from the bountiful oceans it's surrounded by comes a lot of seafood and a lot of pearls. It's also considered sacred to Ranald by some, as according to legend it was created when an adrift sailor called out to all the Gods in turn to save him, and when he finally called out to Ranald, Ranald set off a volcano under him.
what did he expect calling out to the god of luck *last*
 
The Karag Dum Expedition, Part 18
Tally
[*] Leave

You sigh. "The Expedition has fulfilled its mission," you concede. "It's time to return home."

Some of the tension goes out of the room at your words. "I'm glad we're in accordance," Sir Joerg says. "Our attention must turn to our return trip, then." He unrolls a map and weighs down the corners with your steins.


"Our path here worked, but we left a lot of trouble in our wake," Snorri says. "The Chaos Dwarves would have had time to collate reports about the steam-wagons and consider what it would take to set up an ambush, the Plotter-daemons are undoubtedly up to something, and the Iron Wolves would have had plenty of time to consider the wreckage we left behind and whether they consider themselves capable of taking us on, should we return. And not least of which..." He jabs a finger at the ascent between Zorn Uzkul and the Steppes. "Gotrek would have been able to give hard numbers, but my gut is telling me that we'll lose at least one steam-wagon to that corner."

"And even if we don't, the Iron Wolves would have to be imbeciles not to realize how perfect an ambush position it would be," Sir Ruprecht says, "since we have to either disembark and unload and then reembark and reload each one, or risk the crew and contents of each. I'd pit us against any Kurgan impromptu ambush with confidence, but I don't want to know what they might have come up with, with near a month to plot and plan and prepare."

"I was under the impression that the only other route was shelved for good reason," you say cautiously.

"Damn good reason, and one we can largely work around now that we know the terrain," Snorri says. "We go south to Dolgan land, load ourselves down to the gunwales with cows, then skirt the edge of the Wastes until we reach the mountains. That way we minimize time spent in the Chaos Wastes and in Kul territory, which the original route didn't."

"Okay, walk us through the entire route, then," you say.

"These mountains," he says, pointing to the northernmost spur of the World's Edge Mountains, north of Uzkulak. "We know there's navigable passes through them, and navigable by the original plans of the Expedition, before we had the fogs to ease our passage. There's also beasts that lurk them, but as far as our scouting revealed, no worse so than around the ascent."

"And the sea?" you prompt.

"The Frozen Sea, as well-named as it could possibly be. Apart from the Icebreaker-led convoys to and from Uzkulak, all there is to encounter is seals and ice crabs."

"It can hold our weight?" Sir Ruprecht asks dubiously.

"The Chaos Dwarves need to use fire sorcery and leashed daemons to weaken the ice enough that their dreadnoughts can break through it. Our steam-wagons won't even make it creak."

"Then through the Goromadny via Black Blood Pass, I take it?" Sir Joerg asks, and Snorri nods. "Controlled by the Baersonlings, but they are far from the worst of the Norscans. They send traders south as often as they do raiding parties. At the southern end of the pass is Fort Straghov, which tends to rise and fall with the seasons - it's a precarious position because it's only connected to Kislev proper by a chain of forts and Ungol villages, but it's also the first warning Kislev tends to get of invasion from the north, so they do their best to keep their grip on it. From there, Fort Kaminski and Fort Ostrosk along the Tobol, and overland via Iaryn and Dushyka to Praag."

"It's a more direct route, but one that is largely without roads," Sir Ruprecht says. "Under normal circumstances, the route we took would likely still be faster. With the fog-path, though... Dame Weber, your thoughts?"

You consider the map thoughtfully. It's the Rite of Way that could make the original route faster and possibly safer than the one the Expedition took here, and so your words here will probably tip the scales one way or the other. Known dangers versus a bevy of unknowns is an unenviable choice, but it's one that you're in a position to make.

[ ] Road of Skulls
Stick to the same route for the return trip that you took to get here.
[ ] Frozen Sea
Return via the route the Expedition was originally planning to take.
[ ] Demur
Avoid tipping the scales one way or the other, leaving the choice in the hands of Snorri, Joerg, and Ruprecht.


- There will be a one hour moratorium.
- The Road of Skulls route took four weeks. The Frozen Sea one seems like it would take two to three.
- I won't be in the thread as frequently as usual over the next two or three weeks, so if you have a question, ask the rest of the thread first. A lot of things have already been answered and there's usually somebody who can dig it up.
 
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