Sovereign Hunt
A Concentric Circle
- Location
- Bereft of Name
I repeat myself.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ah yes because Mathilde knows much more about what is and isn't acceptable to dwarfs than an actual dwarf. I see no reason to believe he is wrong. He seems to know what is going and and acknowledged that it isn't acceptable but hopes for forgiveness anyways.
- Location
- Philippines
We can't afford a misunderstanding so investigating is needed, if any of the Karak dwarves believe Karag Dum betray them, then the misunderstanding needs to be corrected, otherwise the consequences will be severe.
And why would a council be any more rational? The characteristics you bemoan are cultural, universal and more present in the old. Elders back in KaK are obviously and blatantly going to be harsher than the Karak Dun dwarf who just abandoned the expedition.
All well and good to say 'let dwarfs decide', but we know dwarfs quite a lot IC and can make value judgements on what they will and will not accept. So do we risk the lives of not only ourselves but every man dwarf elf and dragon on his expedition by remaining in the deep wastes just so we can be fastidious about our duty? Because that does not seem like true honor to me, that seems like self-righteous arrogance.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Apologies, but "vengeance" got autocorrupted to "entrance". I've since corrected it.
- Location
- some computer lab
If dwarves always perfectly know what is or is not going to get them grudged, then why do Reckoners exist?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Presumeably because they don't think it explains things well enough.
I wrote that post and even I admit that it is partially based on guesses and assumptions. If you think those do not apply (as many people do), then you obvious shouldn't vote for the conclusion derived from it.
- Location
- Philippines
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: The Beastmen and Morghur are illusions and runic trickery, The only evidence is that Morghur is not acting like his/her normal self, for instance, he/she is nonhostile, did not radiate chaos and Dhar aura, Borek is not mutated despite, Morghur supposed possesses a chaotic aura that can easily mutate, people. Morghur did not act hostile and aggressive enouch, he/she looks sane, he/she did not attack Borek, did not mutate the ground with he/she area of effect aura.
However if Morghur is just a illusion, that does not explain why Borek is greatly shamed by the contigency, a mere illusion would not be enough to shamed Borek.
Mere illusions won't be enough to withstand the constant attacks of the inhabitants here, and illusions would not be able to destablilize the reality or to be precise the unreality of the chaos wasteland.
[X] Morghur is helping the dwarves of Karag Dum, Morghur didn't attack Borek, and didn't attack us which supports that this isn't normal for Morghur, based on the bones and banners, He/She did attack the various tribes that went and came here to test themselves.
He/She does not stink of Dhar, and this area around the Karag has less Dhar concentration than the wasteland, which suggest that Morghur is for intents and purpose align with Karag Dum, the forest does not appear to be mutated or corrupted. Morghur may be under the control of Karag Dum, or even be willing in defending Karag Dum, which I will expand on why on my other theories but before that I will lead with my other theory which is:
[X] Morghur is a class of entity not a individual, a possibly a sort of Ghur and/or Gyran elemental, however this is contradicted by
[X] Morghur knows Borek enouch to be affectionate with him, although this might just be identification procedure, or just a security measure to determine the identity of whether or not the person is a dwarf of Karag Dum.
[X] THEORY: Omegahugger- And now for the reason Morghur may be allied with Karag Dum
[X] THEORY: Based on Guild and Dwarf secrets we can tell that Karag Dum is slowing the spread of the Chaos Wastes.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum converted the hold's Rune of Valaya into a Rune of Valaya's vengeance, which ignites Dhar and protects the user from flames. The resulting explosion blew up the other mountains and created the desert around it. The hot wind we're feeling is the result of that same rune still burning up Dhar - which means that the hold is still without a Rune of Valaya.
[X] THEORY: How and why does not matter. The expedition's responsibility is to bring word to Karag Dum of the state of Karaz Ankor if any yet live and to bring back any message, refugees, or other explanation from Karag Dum. Borek has fulfilled the first responsibility. We should attempt to to fulfill the second, even if just by observation and waiting a decent time for any messenger from Karag Dum to emerge.
[X] THEORY: The forest, that looks seemingly normal and Morghur indicates potential involvment of the wood elves and probably the high elves too, if the high elves were the last group to hunt Morghur down.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum managed to, somehow based on the desert borders stabilize reality contradicting the nature of the chaos wastelands
[X] THEORY: Comprehensive theory of SSS
Karak Dums rune of Valaya has been modified in a similar vein to the belt of the unshackled mountain, this is causing the dhar to burn as it tries to enter the Karak (waystone, but we can't tell the expedition this), in turn this is giving off massive amounts of heat which is being radiated into the surrounding territory, the Rune of Valaya as part of it's natural function probably works to stabilise reality with no further modifications needed. That would explain the bubble of different terrain.
Morghur being born to Dum Dwarves (maybe Boreks family) and given the rites of Valaya instead of being 'gaved' to the forest as he's always been in the past when in human hands has fundamentally changed his nature alongside what ever runic protections Karak Dums runemasters may have engaged in.
The Karak Dum Dwarves and this Morghur then utilise the fact that they have Morghur to attract beastmen to their Karak in the surrounding forests which have grown over time due to the extra heat given off by the Karaks dhar burning allowing it to expand beyond the normal woodland it was before. Morghurs status within the beastmen psyche means even if he's sane and not acting like normal they'd still follow him even whilst still being chaos worshippers.
So the shame is that Karak Dum has 'not allied' with the Beastmen who are still chaos worshipers being 'tricked' into helping fight off the chaos tribes surrounding Karak Dum.
[X] Base on Morghur not being his/herself and the forest, the dwarves may be allied with the elves specifically High elves and/or Wood elves, the elves have been hunting Morghur, and may be involve, plus the forest clearly isn't normal. Yet the forest and desert is present and Morghur is for a lack of better term not acting chaotic, not acting insane, not attacking us, and is either enslaved or allied with the dwarves of Karag Dum.
[X]THEORY: A pseudo-Herdstone - the dwarves managed to create or use their secret resoruces to reverse engineer it, which combined with Morghur, lets them control nomadic beastmen or even create their own beastmen from wildlife or livestock.
[X] THEORY:The terrain
A. The desert...
1. ... is a spacial disjunction to somewhere with a desert, like Araby.
2. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum's enemies to restrict the forest.
3. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum to cut Morghur off from other forests.
4. ... is a result of Dum burning away massive amounts of Dhar, like Mathilde's belt does.
B. The forest...
1. ... is actually present in the Chaos Wastes...
and was created by Morghur.
or was created by elven cooperation with Dum.
2. ... is actually a spacial disjunction to somewhere more forested...
such as Athel Loren.
3. ... is a closed off bubble of the warp that has had new properties imposed on it...
a. ... with runecraft, like Gazul's realm.
b. ... with runecraft and magecraft in concert.
c. ... by Morghur.
C. The surrounding mountains...
1. ... were annihilated.
2. ... are still present, but not visible due to spacial disjunction.
[X] THEORY: The burning of Dhar or purifying it by whatever process Karag Dum has makes the temperature higher, could potentially be the reason why the desert exist.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum radicalize themselves in a effort to protect the rest of the dwarves, by providing a secret resouce, that I'm not allowed to mention.
[x] THEORY: Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[X] ACTION: Discuss the theories only with the council members and the wizards, and even then discuss only in a safe area, where enemy spies may not be able to gain knowledge.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] ACTION: I'm going to have to check this out.
[X] Actions: Study
-bones: look for causes of death, evidence of mutation,
- plants and fauna, identify speciments, see if they are
linked to Athel Lorien,
- Investigate the desert, and look for the source.
- Have the wizards, find signs of chaos taints and Dhar in this enviroment, but be sure not to stray too far.
- Have the expedition fortify to play along with the kurgans' expectation of preparing for a fight.
- be sure for the rest of the expedition to set up a base somewhere a bit far in case a hasty retreat or even a emergency reinforcements.
- Get Asarnil to help you spot signs of elven activity, and even help you leverage the magical seed you got just in case, you need it to get the wood elves to parley.
- Get some wizards to help identify the nature of beastmen and compare it to Mathilde's observation of the supposed beastmen of Karag Dum.
[X] ACTION: Project a message in the air: What the fuck Borek (but more politely worded.)
[X] ACTION: Have expedition fortify near enouch to give a pretense of sieging and prepare fortifications, to give kurgans impression of 'testing' ourselves, but far enough to be able to run away if needed. Prepare a team that can investigate and make sense of everything to study specimens aquire such as bones, fauna, plants, if viable.
[X] ACTION: If its safe try to settle in least concentrated Dhar area, Keep Morale of the expedition up.
I updated the theories, and updated the actions to include better security for the council in discussion, won't want the Kurgans to know whats going on .
I added the Rune of Valaya bit theory of burning Dhar.
[X] THEORY: The Beastmen and Morghur are illusions and runic trickery, The only evidence is that Morghur is not acting like his/her normal self, for instance, he/she is nonhostile, did not radiate chaos and Dhar aura, Borek is not mutated despite, Morghur supposed possesses a chaotic aura that can easily mutate, people. Morghur did not act hostile and aggressive enouch, he/she looks sane, he/she did not attack Borek, did not mutate the ground with he/she area of effect aura.
However if Morghur is just a illusion, that does not explain why Borek is greatly shamed by the contigency, a mere illusion would not be enough to shamed Borek.
Mere illusions won't be enough to withstand the constant attacks of the inhabitants here, and illusions would not be able to destablilize the reality or to be precise the unreality of the chaos wasteland.
[X] Morghur is helping the dwarves of Karag Dum, Morghur didn't attack Borek, and didn't attack us which supports that this isn't normal for Morghur, based on the bones and banners, He/She did attack the various tribes that went and came here to test themselves.
He/She does not stink of Dhar, and this area around the Karag has less Dhar concentration than the wasteland, which suggest that Morghur is for intents and purpose align with Karag Dum, the forest does not appear to be mutated or corrupted. Morghur may be under the control of Karag Dum, or even be willing in defending Karag Dum, which I will expand on why on my other theories but before that I will lead with my other theory which is:
[X] Morghur is a class of entity not a individual, a possibly a sort of Ghur and/or Gyran elemental, however this is contradicted by
[X] Morghur knows Borek enouch to be affectionate with him, although this might just be identification procedure, or just a security measure to determine the identity of whether or not the person is a dwarf of Karag Dum.
[X] THEORY: Omegahugger- And now for the reason Morghur may be allied with Karag Dum
[X] THEORY: Based on Guild and Dwarf secrets we can tell that Karag Dum is slowing the spread of the Chaos Wastes.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum converted the hold's Rune of Valaya into a Rune of Valaya's vengeance, which ignites Dhar and protects the user from flames. The resulting explosion blew up the other mountains and created the desert around it. The hot wind we're feeling is the result of that same rune still burning up Dhar - which means that the hold is still without a Rune of Valaya.
[X] THEORY: How and why does not matter. The expedition's responsibility is to bring word to Karag Dum of the state of Karaz Ankor if any yet live and to bring back any message, refugees, or other explanation from Karag Dum. Borek has fulfilled the first responsibility. We should attempt to to fulfill the second, even if just by observation and waiting a decent time for any messenger from Karag Dum to emerge.
[X] THEORY: The forest, that looks seemingly normal and Morghur indicates potential involvment of the wood elves and probably the high elves too, if the high elves were the last group to hunt Morghur down.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum managed to, somehow based on the desert borders stabilize reality contradicting the nature of the chaos wastelands
[X] THEORY: Comprehensive theory of SSS
Karak Dums rune of Valaya has been modified in a similar vein to the belt of the unshackled mountain, this is causing the dhar to burn as it tries to enter the Karak (waystone, but we can't tell the expedition this), in turn this is giving off massive amounts of heat which is being radiated into the surrounding territory, the Rune of Valaya as part of it's natural function probably works to stabilise reality with no further modifications needed. That would explain the bubble of different terrain.
Morghur being born to Dum Dwarves (maybe Boreks family) and given the rites of Valaya instead of being 'gaved' to the forest as he's always been in the past when in human hands has fundamentally changed his nature alongside what ever runic protections Karak Dums runemasters may have engaged in.
The Karak Dum Dwarves and this Morghur then utilise the fact that they have Morghur to attract beastmen to their Karak in the surrounding forests which have grown over time due to the extra heat given off by the Karaks dhar burning allowing it to expand beyond the normal woodland it was before. Morghurs status within the beastmen psyche means even if he's sane and not acting like normal they'd still follow him even whilst still being chaos worshippers.
So the shame is that Karak Dum has 'not allied' with the Beastmen who are still chaos worshipers being 'tricked' into helping fight off the chaos tribes surrounding Karak Dum.
[X] Base on Morghur not being his/herself and the forest, the dwarves may be allied with the elves specifically High elves and/or Wood elves, the elves have been hunting Morghur, and may be involve, plus the forest clearly isn't normal. Yet the forest and desert is present and Morghur is for a lack of better term not acting chaotic, not acting insane, not attacking us, and is either enslaved or allied with the dwarves of Karag Dum.
[X]THEORY: A pseudo-Herdstone - the dwarves managed to create or use their secret resoruces to reverse engineer it, which combined with Morghur, lets them control nomadic beastmen or even create their own beastmen from wildlife or livestock.
[X] THEORY:The terrain
A. The desert...
1. ... is a spacial disjunction to somewhere with a desert, like Araby.
2. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum's enemies to restrict the forest.
3. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum to cut Morghur off from other forests.
4. ... is a result of Dum burning away massive amounts of Dhar, like Mathilde's belt does.
B. The forest...
1. ... is actually present in the Chaos Wastes...
and was created by Morghur.
or was created by elven cooperation with Dum.
2. ... is actually a spacial disjunction to somewhere more forested...
such as Athel Loren.
3. ... is a closed off bubble of the warp that has had new properties imposed on it...
a. ... with runecraft, like Gazul's realm.
b. ... with runecraft and magecraft in concert.
c. ... by Morghur.
C. The surrounding mountains...
1. ... were annihilated.
2. ... are still present, but not visible due to spacial disjunction.
[X] THEORY: The burning of Dhar or purifying it by whatever process Karag Dum has makes the temperature higher, could potentially be the reason why the desert exist.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum radicalize themselves in a effort to protect the rest of the dwarves, by providing a secret resouce, that I'm not allowed to mention.
[x] THEORY: Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[X] ACTION: Discuss the theories only with the council members and the wizards, and even then discuss only in a safe area, where enemy spies may not be able to gain knowledge.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] ACTION: I'm going to have to check this out.
[X] Actions: Study
-bones: look for causes of death, evidence of mutation,
- plants and fauna, identify speciments, see if they are
linked to Athel Lorien,
- Investigate the desert, and look for the source.
- Have the wizards, find signs of chaos taints and Dhar in this enviroment, but be sure not to stray too far.
- Have the expedition fortify to play along with the kurgans' expectation of preparing for a fight.
- be sure for the rest of the expedition to set up a base somewhere a bit far in case a hasty retreat or even a emergency reinforcements.
- Get Asarnil to help you spot signs of elven activity, and even help you leverage the magical seed you got just in case, you need it to get the wood elves to parley.
- Get some wizards to help identify the nature of beastmen and compare it to Mathilde's observation of the supposed beastmen of Karag Dum.
[X] ACTION: Project a message in the air: What the fuck Borek (but more politely worded.)
[X] ACTION: Have expedition fortify near enouch to give a pretense of sieging and prepare fortifications, to give kurgans impression of 'testing' ourselves, but far enough to be able to run away if needed. Prepare a team that can investigate and make sense of everything to study specimens aquire such as bones, fauna, plants, if viable.
[X] ACTION: If its safe try to settle in least concentrated Dhar area, Keep Morale of the expedition up.
I updated the theories, and updated the actions to include better security for the council in discussion, won't want the Kurgans to know whats going on .
I added the Rune of Valaya bit theory of burning Dhar.
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They have a damned good idea and Borek was certain they had passed that line. I see no reason to believe he is wrong. He knew that this was an option and understands why it happened but still thinks it isn't acceptable.
- Location
- Greece
Thorek, Thorgrimm, Kazador, Belegar and even frikking Kragg do seem to not think with that exact political framework you present, albeit in a different way each. Dawi are literally harsher with themselves than they are with others a lot of the time too.
Edit:
He doesn't know he has passed the line. He didn't actually go Slayer. Belegar has said similar things about Ancestors forgiving him about using the Skaven as meat shields.
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Did we hug any beastmen as a child? If so burning at the stake sounds prudent. There is a difference between magic and the willful agents of Chaos into which as far as we know beastmen are included without fail throughout all the ages of the world. Stirlander peasants could have found out that magic is not evil with enough education.
Well we have that education and from out whole Learning 28 big brain we know for certain this: 'Beastmen are evil'. If one is never to trust our knowledge on what is and is not Chaotic than perhaps we should have tried parley with the Slaaneshi daemons back in Vlag. Who knows maybe there was a nice one with a thorn in its claw.
The above is hyperbole yes, but one hopes it ilustrates the reason why one should be less eager to bash Mathilde over the head with that part of her life.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
I mean, we did parley with Chaos worshippers. Not the Slaneeshi daemons, but notably they didn't give us the option to.
- Location
- Greece
300 hundred years ago, the same would be said for wizards.
Our education is explicitly having a gap in beastman knowledge.
Without dhar, they are not beastmen as people conceive them, they are just goaty bois.
- Location
- some computer lab
It looks like they have a good idea, but that actually being Morghur, an agent of chaos is so unlikely its silly, I refuse to have gone halfway to hell only to turn back at the final hurdle because it looks bad, the hold being halfway to hell in the first place looked bad, we went on this expedition to see what was up with Karag Dum, so I say we see what's up with Karag Dum rather than assuming the worst out of ignorance.
We bribed them to go away and sell us food. Notably having them fight as mercs was a bridge too far for the thread and for good reason.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It's Vengeance not entrance sorry, it got autocorrupted. Could you maybe change it, and I'll run a tally and see if that kicks the incorrect version off the list?
No it could not be said of wizards, it could have been said of wizards in the Empire, but that is because the humans of the Empire were uneducated barbarians one and all. Ask and elf or a dwarf, hell ask a Bretonian and they would have told you different. Not so a beastmen.
- Location
- some computer lab
Well looking at them is less radical than any of those, so I don't see why there are objections to it?
- Location
- Earth
I'm not too sure that looking for portents and divine signs in the Chaos Wastes is a good idea.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
A parley is a parley.
Because the act of 'looking at them' is stupidly dangerous not only to us but those with us. This is the Deep Chaos Wastes. Every moment spent here is courting death and damnation.
And Chaos Marauders are not beastmen, just ask the Dark Gods. they are bored of beastmen because they already own their souls now and forever, not so humans, even those of the north.
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Sovereign Hunt
A Concentric Circle
- Location
- Bereft of Name
Morghur just patted a dwarf on the head without killing him, a dwarf that we know for a fact is still loyal to/reverent of the Ancestor Gods. The entire knowledge base you're working off of was proven irrelevant literally in front of our eyes.
Which is why we have a duty to stay, and figure out what the hell is going on.
- Location
- Greece
And ask someone from Ind and they'll have waaay different preconceptions about tigermen. Ask someeone from Araby and they'll tell you otherwise about binding daemons. Ask someone from Brettonia, they'll tell you some choice words about peasants rights or Ranald. Ask someone from Nekehara and they'll say a lot of things about undead that sound super heretical to everyone. And none of those are chaos/dhar poisoned as far as we know.
People learn by learning.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
*to most people