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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I'm not sure what's going on here, but sticking around seems kinda pointless and only really attempts to satisfy our curiosity.

[X] ACTION: Turn back

The Void said:
Hmm, we could try and base it off of whatever posts Boney has marked as insightful or with cats I guess?
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Metagaming like that seems a bad idea, as you might just encourage Boney to, in the future, not mark anything.

Edit: Oh boy my post was marked as insightful, that must mean I'm 100% correct in my read of how Boney will react to people trying to get 100% correct readings based off their insightful marks :p
 
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Minor curiosity, but it occurs to me that the Dark Elf guy who sold us that acorn never said it came from Athel Loren. Is it possible it might have come from here instead?

Also, for those people suggesting the elves had a hand in this whole mess... Athel Loren is most of the continent away, right? How are you thinking the dwarves even made contact with them from that far?
 
Thread consensus appears to agree that Borek knew what was going on here. That indicates this is the result of a plan that is over 200 years old created by the Karag Dum dwarfs and that the Dum is still held by dwarf forces. Borek believes the plan they're using to be shameful somehow, however that doesn't mean the other dwarfs of Karag Dum believe the same so we may be able to communicate with them.

It's at this point where new possible theories arise. Some of the leading theories are:

1. Beastman buffer: Karag Dum is using beastmen as a meat-shield to protect themselves.
The method's suspected for how this state of affairs has occurred however widely vary from Karag Dum using a Runelord in disguise to Borek is Morghur's older brother somehow.

2. Illusions, I don't have to explain shit: Radical runelords with hundreds of years to prepare can perform all sorts of bullshit. Who knows what's really under those trees, if they even really are trees.
Maybe it just looks like a forest of beastmen but is actually a dwarf engineered deathtrap. Maybe it's Beastman robots? Actually a lava pit? Invisible ballistae?

3. Elvish devilry: The forest is familiar to Mathilde who is familiar with elvish forests and has a magic acorn. Maybe Athel Loren is mixed up in things.

Information gathering. Different theories being correct will result in radically different results. It may turn out the place is damned and there's nothing to be done or we may be able to find valuable information, trade and friends. If nothing else we can try to assuage our curiosity and narrow down our possible theories.

1. The bones (low risk): Looking through the bones should get a better understanding of what's killing everyone. Is it beastmen? Dwarf contraptions and weapons? Elf arrows and magic? Dryads?

2. Forest consult (low risk): We can check with the other expedition members on the type of forest we're seeing. If this is Athel Loren stuff someone will probably be able to recognize that.

3. Message to the forest (moderate risk): Sending a message to start a dialogue could be quite informative especially if the bones don't appear to be the result of beastmen. Borek may be too ashamed to speak but that's not necessarily true for the locals who may very well be proud of holding out for so long.

4. The tribes (moderate risk): Asking the tribes what's going on can also be informative, giving us a timeline and their impressions of what's going on. It may turn out that they're quite knowledgeable and know exactly what's up with Karag Dum.

5. Ask the terrain and animals (wizard risk): Mundane information gathering is for mundane people, we have wizards! Convince a cow to go into the forest and return. Ask a river what the latest streams are. Ask the local animals to paws for a moment and give us some news.

5. Attack the forest (high risk): Fire some cannons and magic spells and see if it results in something interesting. I've heard that poking things and seeing if they react is basically standard scientific practice and who am I to gainsay science? Probably best to be ready to run though if we do that (actually it's best to be ready to run at a moment notice regardless of what we do).

6: Voluntary sacrifice scout (crazy risk): Borek seemed to do alright in the forest. Maybe someone else will too? Hands up everyone willing to enter the forest.

If the dwarfs are allied with Athel Loren we might be able to take a shortcut home using space-wacey bullshit and even set up some type of understanding with the wood elves (or be shot at because they're dicks). If they're using illusions the runelords might be willing to send some correspondence to their peers (or be stubborn and refuse to talk). If Karag Dum is using beastmen as a buffer that might be too radical for the average dwarf to take, but the Empire may feel different (or they may not).

The space of possibilities is pretty wide so it's worth taking a shot at something good. The low risk options at least won't make us any more vulnerable or cost us anything and may result in substantial gain so they're worth trying. So let's get a bit of distance, keep clear lines of sight, always be ready to run and start looking for something valuable.
 
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[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
Guys I really recommend we consult with a Priest of Gazul

Find out if there is life or death here.

Ask if the Afterlife is clipping into reality here.

That Crater suggests a big boom.

For the Kharak to be in the middle of a Crater means they were destroyed/killed or moved out of phase to survive an explosion they caused or endured/dodged.

Are they alive?

Are they dead?

Are they in the gap between the two?

Is this a Schrodingers Box, where they are balancing on the edge of both Alive/Dead?
 
TheOmnimercurial said:
Guys I really recommend we consult with a Priest of Gazul

Find out if there is life or death here.

Ask if the Afterlife is clipping into reality here.

That Crater suggests a big boom.

For the Kharak to be in the middle of a Crater means they were destroyed/killed or moved out of phase to survive an explosion they caused or endured/dodged.

Are they alive?

Are they dead?

Are they in the gap between the two?

Is this a Schrodingers Box, where they are balancing on the edge of both Alive/Dead?
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Those seem like the kind of questions that a Ranger with a few multiclass levels in Lay Priest wouldn't be able to answer.
 
Ericwinter said:
Minor curiosity, but it occurs to me that the Dark Elf guy who sold us that acorn never said it came from Athel Loren. Is it possible it might have come from here instead?
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Because while a tree grown from one wouldn't be the Oak of Ages, it would be rather distinct looking ie. taller than every other tree around by an order of magnitude.
Ericwinter said:
Also, for those people suggesting the elves had a hand in this whole mess... Athel Loren is most of the continent away, right? How are you thinking the dwarves even made contact with them from that far?
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They can teleport anywhere the World Roots extend to. While yes, there shouldn't be any here, the mountain range that was supposed to be here is distinctly absent. So... don't discard the possibility out of hand, is what I'm saying.
 
WorldSlayer said:
1. Beastman buffer: Karag Dum is using beastmen as a meat-shield to protect themselves.
The method's suspected for how this state of affairs has occurred however widely vary from Karag Dum using a Runelord in disguise to Borek is Morghur's older brother somehow.
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If this is the case, it's definitely not just relying on the Beastmen themselves. The Kurgan and, presumably, others at times, have been throwing themselves at Dum for, probably, 180 years. Unless that forest is 1000x bigger on the inside and absolutely teeming with Beastmen, then Warherds on their own would not be enough to stand up to the Kurgan. Morghur/FakeMorghur/Whatever have got to be pretty badass on their own.

Besides, the Kurgan would have noticed by now if Morghur wasn't the one actually fighting them, and the way the Yusak phrased it, Morghur himself is the main combatant.
 
I just edited this in as a formal THEORY in my vote.

[] THEORY: Morghur wasn't "patting Borek on the head". It was some touching him in some sort of check to verify he was an authorized Karag Dum resident, and given their respective heights that's where its hand landed.
 
TheOmnimercurial said:
Guys I really recommend we consult with a Priest of Gazul

Find out if there is life or death here.

Ask if the Afterlife is clipping into reality here.

That Crater suggests a big boom.

For the Kharak to be in the middle of a Crater means they were destroyed/killed or moved out of phase to survive an explosion they caused or endured/dodged.

Are they alive?

Are they dead?

Are they in the gap between the two?

Is this a Schrodingers Box, where they are balancing on the edge of both Alive/Dead?
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Last I checked we weren't in Death Stranding, the afterlife mixing with the living world doesn't cause explosions. :V
 
guyfromtheplace1 said:
I think before he mutated he was originally a dwarf from Karag Dum.
He's been called upon to fullfil his ancient oaths to protect his home, and is potentially corrupting them via proximity in the process.

Remember that dwarf souls are supposed to reincarnate in a new body if they're not sent to the underearth. What Beastman does that remind you of?
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May I interest you in my custom composite theory I posted a while back?

[] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum. From their extensive study of Chaos, they had previously figured out how to deliberately induce Morghur's reincarnation into a specific body, even that of a dwarf. To contain and control Morghur after his induced reincarnation, the Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Burning out the taint of a demigod named "the Corruptor" is likely why there's a desert and fewer mountains here. The forest was created by the purified Morghur, and the beastmen were attracted to serve him as they are inherently bound to do. The rulers of Karag Dum would not force such a fate onto any of their subjects, so this "Morghur" was likely a member of the royal clan who was pre-selected in case this contingency needed to be activated, and was personally known and loved by Borek, explaining the greeting and his reaction to it.
 
Fayhem said:
May I interest you in my custom composite theory I posted a while back?

[] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum. From their extensive study of Chaos, they had previously figured out how to deliberately induce Morghur's reincarnation into a specific body, even that of a dwarf. To contain and control Morghur after his induced reincarnation, the Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Burning out the taint of a demigod named "the Corruptor" is likely why there's a desert and fewer mountains here. The forest was created by the purified Morghur, and the beastmen were attracted to serve him as they are inherently bound to do. The rulers of Karag Dum would not force such a fate onto any of their subjects, so this "Morghur" was likely a member of the royal clan who was pre-selected in case this contingency needed to be activated, and was personally known and loved by Borek, explaining the greeting and his reaction to it.
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From their extensive study of Chaos, they had previously figured out how to deliberately induce Morghur's reincarnation into a specific body, even that of a dwarf.

Uhhhh....

The rulers of Karag Dum would not force such a fate onto any of their subjects, so this "Morghur" was likely a member of the royal clan who was pre-selected in case this contingency needed to be activated, and was personally known and loved by Borek, explaining the greeting and his reaction to it.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

No, those parts are spinning off into "completely castle built on air" land IMO. No support whatsoever.
 
[X] ACTION: Turn back

[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
Very, very random thought that is nearly a hundred percent wrong but morbidly funny due to the theories of Morghur being reincarnated as a dwarf: Morghur is usually reincarnated as a human, right? And we just had that announcement about Ranald stealing a dwarf soul and incarnating it as a human. Maybe it wasn't Mathilde, and now the dwarves know because he came back home...
 
Refining vote again based on new theory crafting (mostly just a few word changes):
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Refining my theory:
[X] THEORY: When Karak Dum warned the others about Chaos, the other holds instead chose to freak out about the elven army that had just landed upon the shores of the old world. The elves were later revealed to have been chasing Cor-Dum. What if K-Dum tried to remove C-Dum so the elves would go away and the dwarves could send reinforcments up north. However, they bound the demigod to their waystone instead—possibly by accident, possibly on purpose, definitly with forbidden knowledge. They weren't able to prevent the great war in time, so they chose to double down and make Cor-Dum their protector.

Long version:
[X] THEORY: Morghur has been bound to Karak Dum's waystone, which is acting as a psudo-herdstone. Morghur now sees dwarfs of Karak Dum as allies. This waystone manipulation may also be the cause of the weird geography. Based on Boreks last words, this was a longstanding contingency plan held by the dwarfs of Karak Dum. He is ashamed because it's a desecration of one of the greatest works of the Ancestor Gods.

Short version:
[X] THEORY: Morghur has been bound to Karak Dum's waystone

Action vote (unchanged):
[X] ACTION: Offer Snorri command of the expedition, take it if he declines, then fetch the chaos cup and then go home.
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[X] THEORY: Morghur has been linked to Karag Dum's waystone, which is acting as a psudo-herdstone that is burning away Dhar instead of creating it. Morghur is possibly cleansed of Dhar, and sees dwarfs of Karag Dum as family. The waystone may have been the cause of the weird geography via Geomancy, and might be weaponized. Based on Boreks last words, this was a longstanding contingency plan held by the dwarfs of Karag Dum. He is ashamed because it's a desecration of one of the greatest relics of the Ancestor Gods, as well as binding the fate of Karag Dum to a Beastmen Demi-God.

[x] ACTION: Investigate further.

Hmm, not 100% happy with that, but it'll have to do for now.
 
Are we really taking this "Morghur reincarnates to resurrect" stuff as quest canon? Because as far as I understand, Mathilde has no idea about any such thing. She knows he's a big scary monster and recognizes him from description.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Those seem like the kind of questions that a Ranger with a few multiclass levels in Lay Priest wouldn't be able to answer.
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The Priest is a conduit to Gazul no mattee their rank, so it is at least worth asking the Priest to entreat their God and ask if the Ancestor is willing to communicate on this matter.

NexusEye said:
Last I checked we weren't in Death Stranding, the afterlife mixing with the living world doesn't cause explosions. :V
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Lol

My point is though, that they may already be dead and were just waiting for Borek and possible reinforcements.

Unfinished Business of Ghosts as it were.

Either that or they avoided Death by embracing Death through Gazul intervention.

Or they Suicided the whole Kharak to make that Crater.

Lets ask Gazul essentially.



Regarding Morghul....

He is either:

Purified of Chaos & Dhar.

Respawned from a Dawi and retained Dawi Mind and Allegiences.

Insane enough to be made an Ally.

Tricked or Bound to defending the Kharak.

Lingering here until a decision is made and reality/unreality stabilises in history to become a fixed event for good or bad. Eg: Schrodingers Box Uncertainty Principle.
 
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