Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting will open in 6 hours, 50 minutes
I guess I'm just used to it from my trpg years, but it's perfectly possible to contribute to a shared imaginary space without having all the context, just the most important bits. It's not the best or most interesting way to participate, sure, but it's valid, and happens all the time in trpgs because it's way harder to keep track of all the context there.
I think the bigger issue honestly was how they phrased it. If they'd said something like "I'm still reading through the quest, can someone give me the context, so I can participate", then people would have been happy to do so. But as it was, I and others got the impression that they don't even give enough of a shit to read the quest. So why are you even here, if you don't enjoy it?

If you don't have all the context but care, then you can still contribute, though it's likely some of that contribution will be obviously wrong to someone with context, or duplicates earlier discussion. This does happen regularly when people make suggestions that already came up. Here the answer is at worst a polite "We already did that".
If you don't care, then how can you contribute anything worthwhile? If you don't care, then why are you here? At that point, it's very easy to get worried what they're going to fuck up (and suspcious that it would be intentional). Thus you get a hostile reaction, because professing not to care is itself something of a hostile act.

That's my read anyway.
 
Rest in peace, Gotrek Gurnisson, while you can. Because one day @Omegahugger will riase his banner over that thread and force you to return to work...
Still not funny. :(

[x] Press on
 
Eh... I would not want to try to adapt those spells to a different wind on the fly, especially to do something complex like raise a wight (of a corpse we can't even find).

Guys I know this might surprise you but I don't think necromancy is viable. :V
I never mentioned using Ulgu for it.

Mathilde is perfectly able to grab a hold of Shyish and use it... if she stops caring about Dhar.
 
@BoneyM : A few questions:
1) If our staff reduces the difficulty of mist-based battle magic spells into ones that are, well, normal spells, why do they still require a DC of 50 to succeed? Especially Melkoth's Mistifying Miasma, which flat-out miscasted despite not getting a crit-fail anyway.

2) Would Rite of Way not work for the partially-destroyed path, given that it's based around Skywalk? Especially if we just focus it on that one spot? Or does Rite of Way not work that way? Because if it can work just fine over rivers, surely it works on a gap in the road?

3) Hypothetically, if we'd been casting Rite of Way on that spot at the time of the path giving way, would the spell have been unable to compensate (because of the rapid change in the surface), or was it just a case of not having any reason IC to have been casting it at the time?
 
1) If our staff reduces the difficulty of mist-based battle magic spells into ones that are, well, normal spells, why do they still require a DC of 50 to succeed? Especially Melkoth's Mistifying Miasma, which flat-out miscasted despite not getting a crit-fail anyway.
because it was the first time during a battle.
Won't happen again (unless someone actively contests it)
 
wow, that is a earth-shaking accident. I'm almost falling deep into despair. There is no way to fix this, and we really do not have good options here.
mmm, I'm thinking that we either risk starving for a week for certain and the expidition fails to achieve it's goal regarding Dum, or we risk starving between 1 and 5 weeks for potential gains depending on the state of Dum, the willingness and ability of the tribe to trade with us, and on what other events we meet.

Something to consider: the crash of the steamwagon falling is likely heard in a wide area and will thus likely attract (hostile) attention. So it would be advantagous to move away as quickly as possible. However, the large amount of lootable steel might also attract attention in the coming weeks, so we might make the argument that it is better to return right now. However, if the expidition returns I do not expect there to be another, at least not in a reasonable timeframe. And what we saw with Vlag might also apply to Dum, that Chaos forces where confident in their location and thus taking the time to siege the Karak, but our expedition coming close might warn them a second expedition can come and thus they might go all-in on the assault.

Secondly, we do not know the state of Karak Dum. If it is in a good condition (very unlikely, but still), we might be able to leave some forces there for a time and thus reduce our logistical constraints for the return trip. Or half our cavalry might die there, and as they consume most of our food we would have increased food reserve. Macabre thought to be sure, but that is sometimes the ugly reality of war and military expeditions into the frontyard of hell.

edit: didn't actually vote, oops
Maybe Ranald will bless us and give us a serrie of 95+ rolls to comensate the very unlucky ones.
beside that, i'm just plain interested in reading how our expedition continues, and turning back at the first major adversity does not seem very Dwarvy to me
[X] Press on
 
Last edited:
Btw, we don't know IC that wasn't a trap, right? Will Mathy try to check that?

If there's an enemy capable of causing rockslides on demand there's a lot of much more effective ways they could have utilized that to screw over the Expedition.

@BoneyM : A few questions:
1) If our staff reduces the difficulty of mist-based battle magic spells into ones that are, well, normal spells, why do they still require a DC of 50 to succeed? Especially Melkoth's Mistifying Miasma, which flat-out miscasted despite not getting a crit-fail anyway.

2) Would Rite of Way not work for the partially-destroyed path, given that it's based around Skywalk? Especially if we just focus it on that one spot? Or does Rite of Way not work that way? Because if it can work just fine over rivers, surely it works on a gap in the road?

3) Hypothetically, if we'd been casting Rite of Way on that spot at the time of the path giving way, would the spell have been unable to compensate (because of the rapid change in the surface), or was it just a case of not having any reason IC to have been casting it at the time?

1) The first time you use a spell in the field is always going to have a diceroll.
2) It doesn't work on the gap in the road, nor does it work over rivers. The delivery mechanism detects inconsistency and applies skywalks on the inconsistency. A consistently empty stretch of air is as ignored by that mechanism as a consistently solid stretch of stone is.
3) If Rite of Way had been involved while cornering, someone probably would have gone over the edge much earlier because it conceals the road. And it wouldn't have helped with what happened to the Urmskaladrak.
 
Last edited:
As the one that wrote it, I'm not a huge fan of the idea that reading it is an unreasonable burden.

I would assume he means he doesn't have time to read all the OTHER posts besides your story posts that are a part of this quest. If he doesn't then yes that is his short sighted problem and no one cares if reading is that much of an effort for him.

Having read some of the books, this have got to be one of the most insulting ways for Gotrek to die I could possible think of. Can't even find his body to give it a proper burial with his family.
 
Last edited:
I would assume he means he doesn't have time to read all the OTHER posts besides your story posts that are a part of this quest.
Nope, you get it wrong:
do you mean catch up on the main quest threadmarks and you don't want to read the thousands of pages of discussion, or do you just want someone to tell you the basics of what's going on so you don't have to read any of the quest threadmarks?
A combination of both of them
He, at least partially, don't want to read a threadmarks.
 
Having read some of the books, this have got to be one of the most insulting ways for Gotrek to die I could possible think of. Can't even find his body to give it a proper burial with his family.
I actually kinda like how fucking weak it was. There are no "Narrative Rails" guarding anyone here. Anyone can die from the most inane things, Mathilde's had a few "If you roll one you just die" moments, and she's the MC.

I can get not liking it, but that is the style of this quest, and I think it's refreshing.

It also makes Ranald's "Boxcars go Brrrrr", so much sweeter.
 
Last edited:
Well shit, that happened.

We'll either have to turn around, or shed some of the knights. I don't like either of those options.
I'd personally go with slotting the expedition; we already saved one Hold, and the only evidence I can recall that Karag Dum will have anything in it besides skeletons and dust is a vague memory of us talking to Cython and him mentioning weird naked dwarves running about on its slopes, which I'm pretty sure was my imagination considering it hasn't been brought up since and is also completely insane. (Like, seriously @BoneyM, am I hallucinating that Cython mentioned flying out near Karag Dum and seeing naked dwarves running around?)

Gotrek's fucking dead, the Urmskaladrak is scrap, and the only way to complete the voyage is to exhaust our food supply in the process and trap ourselves inside a crumbling dead Dwarfhold on Chaos' doorstep.

Of course, from what I remember, the issue is that we CAN'T turn back without the batshit asshole running the expedition going spare, so either way this most likely ends with Mathilde and maybe a half-dozen other survivors crawling back into Kislev in a year's time.


Question, is this intended as us being asked for 'give me ways to figure out how to do the crossing' here, or is it assumed we have a definite way to manage the crossing?

i.e. The Dwarfs will rig up ropes to the steam-wagons so that if the road crumbles under another one of them, the passing-steam-wagon can be pulled in by the steam-wagons that are already across. (With options/ability to quickly remove/unhook/whatever the rope, if it looks like the single road-crossing steam-wagon will pull both of the other steam-wagons down with it.)

Or something like "dig into the passage in order to widen the road."

Or even just "go scout out an alternative road crossing for the steam-wagons."


That is, is it assumed that the Dwarfs and humans will already be doing things and making it feasible to cross -- whether we pick to continue on or turn back -- or are we also being asked for ways-to-cross ideas?
Which is another thing to consider - the Urmskaladrak's fate strongly suggests that the geological makeup of this pass isn't really capable of bearing up under the weight of the steam wagons. Trying to squeeze several of them through a smaller pass, thus putting more weight on a smaller surface area? Great way to trigger another collapse and wipe out the rest of the wagons.

At this point, the only even semi-safe means of continuing on would involve either finding a different entry point to the plateau, or a decades-long engineering project to make the pass steam wagon compliant.


Very no. The Dwarves will do their best to mitigate the risk, but there will be risk of steam-wagons following the Urmskaladrak whichever direction is decided upon.
Oh hey, confirmation. We're fetched up in a death gorge with no possible way out. Awesome.

Figures this would be the one time that Dawi paranoia would have been the right choice - if they'd sent a team of surveyors to calculate the maximum load limit of the cliffs, this wouldn't have happened, even if it would have also probably taken a decade and at least a few fatalities.

So yeah, I guess the actual choice here is how we lose the rest of the steam wagons and get fucked in true Odysseus fashion. A retreat seems like the 'Scylla' option, given it means we'll be crawling out of the wreckage on the side of this pass that has some sort of actual prospects beyond "wander farther north and get murderfucked by demons".


My first inclination is that it's over, we turn back, try and buy more at Uzkulak again.

But, how far are we from where we expected to contact the Dolgan now? Is it possible to check whether they are ready and intending to follow through doable within, say, a day?
Again, we're going to lose more steam wagons to this damnable pass no matter what we do. At this point, the expedition is over. We either get stranded at the top of the hellgorge atop a pile of dead dwarves, or we get stranded at the bottom with a pile of dead dwarves. There is no non-"pile of dead dwarves" option here barring us inventing a new spell to let us Walpurgis Nacht the wagons through the air or something.

Also, I just found out that this Expedition apparently happened in canon and basically everyone died, with the dice being accordingly weighted towards death. So... yeah, no, any doubts I had about me catastrophizing are put to rest here. Causality is being bent toward this expedition's failure.

[x] Turn back
 
But yes, flashbacks to the Sylvanian campaign.
"He was Anaddreki - destined for greatness"
That's how I feel about this thing. So let's push on and make his death mean something.
 
On one hand, i am really tempted to turn back, we saved a dwarf hold, and have no way to know what waiting us at our destination.
But, i also don't want to just tell everyone to turn back after having come so far after first problem (not caused by us) comes up.
 
Again, we're going to lose more steam wagons to this damnable pass no matter what we do. At this point, the expedition is over. We either get stranded at the top of the hellgorge atop a pile of dead dwarves, or we get stranded at the bottom with a pile of dead dwarves. There is no non-"pile of dead dwarves" option here barring us inventing a new spell to let us Walpurgis Nacht the wagons through the air or something.
There is a risk that we'll lose wagons. It's entirely possible we can pass through, get to Karag Dum, and then get back without losing any wagons at all.

I also suspect that risk will be lesser on the way back, since the Dwarf Engineers will hopefully have learned how to make it through from their first go.
 
Last edited:
I mean, fair? I'm not sure how else I could see this working though, from a narrative perspective. Part of it might be I have no idea who Gotrek was outside this quest, so to me he's just 'a dwarf, engineer variety'. I'm just not feeling any particular emotional loss at the update, and despite losing the one steam wagon this vote decision doesn't feel worrying.

Sorry I don't have more helpful feedback, I just, yeah. Something's not clicking.
Gotrek's death not feeling more emotional for those who just know him as an Engineer is probably by design. To Mathilde he was just an engineer and all the "main character from a canon book series stuff" is OOC.

That said, I too felt like something was missing from that chapter section. It just happened kind of matter-of-factly, if that makes sense? Like, it was a very short section with no dialogue and nothing else going on to be suddenly and surprisingly interrupted by this disaster. It felt a bit like "April 12: Dear Diary, Today my house burned down" or "and then our plane crashed on an island and only few of us survived".

I always feel weird making such criticism because I know I am a worse writer than BoneyM and because it can sound like a demand to "write more and put more energy into this free thing you provide us". On the other hand I know that feedback can be useful even when it is vague like this, so I just hope it's well received.
 
Last edited:
Voting will open in 6 hours, 50 minutes
Back
Top