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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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As much as I don't want to get sidetracked, I think Uzkulak isn't that bad a sidetrack. We can buy stuff and maybe the stuff will be food for the expedition. That does make sense. I do strongly want to hold the line against the skaven sidequest making it into the top five, though. It's currently number six and pretty close in votes, and I just don't think curiosity is worth losing the social slot: we will feel like right ninnies if we lose important social rolls at the end of the expedition or if we miss something important about our wizards.

Also, while I was looking at the tally, I found some malformed votes:
Fanhunter696 said:
[x] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak
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Neptune said:
[x] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak
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DarianAmell said:
[x] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak
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Rafin said:
[x] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak
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HanEmpire said:
[x] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak
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This vote cuts off before "Varr": [ ] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr
buli-buli said:
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gunnison
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Jyn Ryvia said:
[x] Head Engineer Gotrek Gunnison
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This misspells Gotrek's name and so isn't being tallied with the rest, you want [ ] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
 
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Alratan said:
Why should we make any commitments prior to actually knowing what we'll find there?

Mathilde is very good at flexibly responding to the situation she finds herself in, not in locking herself into a rigid plan she refuses to deviate from. This is another opportunity to put her in the right place at the right time. Not a certainty, so if the opportunity doesn't exist we just walk her back out again, but giving her the opportunity to learn or acquire something that makes a difference down the line.
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We already know what we're going to find there, at least in broad terms. Unrestricted markets, slavery, people who we'd kill on sight under any other circumstance, and a whole lot of suffering. This isn't some random port town in the middle of nowhere that passes questionable goods, this is one of the central trade hubs for the forces of disorder. The only interactions we should be having with the place should be aimed at either destroying or robbing it, and we currently have no plans to do so- and even if we did, frankly this wouldn't be the right time to be going about any part of them, even gathering intelligence.
 
If we really want to visit we can just come back on our own, shadowhorse is OP.

And we can do it when any shenanigans we get up to don't have a chance of blowing back on the expedition.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I dunno, "they have a thriving slave market" seems like plenty to justify kinetic action to me already, and we already know that.
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We already know that, and have known it for years, and it was insufficient motivation to go and visit the place, just as it was insufficient motivation to visit the Arabyan cities with slave markets, or even to try to lead a slave rebellion when we passed through Kislev which also has thriving slave markets in its cities.


Valmond said:
And i'm fully onboard visiting, on our way back.
Right now, best we can hope for is that they don't notice the expedition, so let's not go pocking the hornets nest.
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BoneyM has been very clear that if we want to visit somewhere, we should visit now, not assume we can visit it later.
 
picklepikkl said:
we will feel like right ninnies if we lose important social rolls at the end of the expedition or if we miss something important about our wizards.
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We'd also feel like ninnies if it turns out the skaven made a deal with the Tzeentchians to ambush the expedition, or something other unknowable before poking around thing we'd quite like to find out about.

Personally I don't see the value of social votes nearly as highly as you seem to here, They give a better impression of how someone may act, it's a marginal increase and often is not going to be particularly significant. It's not really necessary for Mathilde to spend all her time glad handing.
 
Valmond said:
I'm pretty sure extremely few people expected anything beyond a new research project or paper.
And now we saved a dwarf hold and are down not insignificant amount of our frontline.
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We could hire mercenaries to replace them here from if we fancied. There should be quite a few of them that aren't Chaos aligned that usually ply their rear guarding caravans too and from Cathay from here.

The Expedition could very easily be strengthened her if we choose to.
 
Alratan said:
We already know that, and have known it for years, and it was insufficient motivation to go and visit the place, just as it was insufficient motivation to visit the Arabyan cities with slave markets, or even to try to lead a slave rebellion when we passed through Kislev which also has thriving slave markets in its cities.
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There's a big difference between being academically aware of something and actually seeing it in person.
 
Alratan said:
We already know that, and have known it for years, and it was insufficient motivation to go and visit the place, just as it was insufficient motivation to visit the Arabyan cities with slave markets, or even to try to lead a slave rebellion when we passed through Kislev which also has thriving slave markets in its cities.
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I think you are getting this backwards.
Slave markets are a reason not to visit, because are we really going to go and watch slaves be abused, and not act?
I'm not sure i would be able to vote not to act in the situation.

Alratan said:
BoneyM has been very clear that if we want to visit somewhere, we should visit now, not assume we can visit it later.
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Then let's not visit at all.

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Alratan said:
We could hire mercenaries to replace them here from if we fancied. There should be quite a few of them that aren't Chaos aligned that usually ply their rear guarding caravans too and from Cathay from here.

The Expedition could very easily be strengthened her if we choose to.
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Hire mercenaries, from chaos dwarf port city, to save Karag Dum...
What drugs are you on?
 
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NSMS said:
We already know what we're going to find there, at least in broad terms. Unrestricted markets, slavery, people who we'd kill on sight under any other circumstance, and a whole lot of suffering. This isn't some random port town in the middle of nowhere that passes questionable goods, this is one of the central trade hubs for the forces of disorder. The only interactions we should be having with the place should be aimed at either destroying or robbing it, and we currently have no plans to do so- and even if we did, frankly this wouldn't be the right time to be going about any part of them, even gathering intelligence.
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So if one is prmited to be a touch hyperbolic for the sake of argument, say there was and Anvil of Doom on sale in Uzkulak. Should it then be left for others to buy because we don't like the city and there are slaves around? There are slaves in Kislev, Chaos does not even have the monopoly on slavery.
 
picklepikkl said:
I just don't think curiosity is worth losing the social slot: we will feel like right ninnies if we lose important social rolls at the end of the expedition or if we miss something important about our wizards.
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That same exact argument can be done about Moulder combes, and they are waaay more unique and have way more potential than a social slot.
 
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Klaus said:
Disingenuous response is disingenuous.

Karak Vlag was directly in the path of the expedition and that anything bad there could have attacked the expedition unavoidably. Another victory like that and the expedition may be finished.
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It's not disingenuous you're just not looking at the greater context to see that visiting these places is important even if we have no selfish aims in mind. Both places could be the centre of a response aimed at our expedition or do you think Karak Vlag is the only place where enemy forces will realise something strange has happened with the high pass being made clear by the ice witches magics.

We should be investigating those places if for no other reason than to see if they're going to present an issue to the expedition the fact that we can also benefit from them in terms of pilfering resources is secondary.

NSMS said:
I don't want to go there until and unless we've committed to burning the place to the ground, and are either scouting for that or actually doing that. It being an 'open' slot doesn't matter to me.
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We may literally never get that chance, so I'm going to vote for visiting now so we can take the lay of the land have something to report to the grey college, and see if find out anything important that might be aimed at the expedition and if not buy or pilfer resources for ourselves.
 
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Ekzentric Lohner said:
Can I convince you to toss a vote for Borek in there? Prefixing the sentence about Chaos Vegas with "At least" suggests you'd be fine kicking that one out of the top 5 too.
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[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[x] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[x] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[x] Preceptor Joerg von Zavstra
[x] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
[x] Asarnil the Dragonlord
[x] Deathfang
[x] Ice Crone Ljiljana
[x] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[x] Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania
[x] Magister Michel Solmann
[x] Journeyman Cyrston von Danling
[x] Journeywoman Alexandra Kohler
 
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DarianAmell said:
Weird I took it from the vote option. Will edit my vote
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The problem is that the vote option is dumb and will copy anything people vote for, which means that if one person copy/pastes something wrong, that will get added as a new vote option that can trip people up.
Thomasfoolery said:
We'd also feel like ninnies if it turns out the skaven made a deal with the Tzeentchians to ambush the expedition, or something other unknowable before poking around thing we'd quite like to find out about.

Personally I don't see the value of social votes nearly as highly as you seem to here, They give a better impression of how someone may act, it's a marginal increase and often is not going to be particularly significant. It's not really necessary for Mathilde to spend all her time glad handing.
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Fanhunter696 said:
That same exact argument can be done about Moulder combes, and they are waaay more unique and have way more potential than a social slot.
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That's a very poor argument. We know that this expedition is very likely to end in a social showdown where the forces of "stay and fight" are arrayed against "evacuate what we can." We know because everyone has been telling us that for ingame years. We have zero special indication that the skaven are up to something.
 
DragonParadox said:
So if one is prmited to be a touch hyperbolic for the sake of argument, say there was and Anvil of Doom on sale in Uzkulak. Should it then be left for others to buy because we don't like the city and there are slaves around? There are slaves in Kislev, Chaos does not even have the monopoly on slavery.
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Alratan said:
Mathilde went to Praag and would have seen the slave markets there. She didn't even feel it was worth mentioning to herself it was something she cared so little about.
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If she didn't mention them, then I'm running under the assumption she didn't see them. Because for her not to do so would feel rather out of character- Mathilde's no saint, but she is a devout Ranaldite.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Sorry it read like you were going 'but Vlag work!, so we should keep doing it,
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Ah, yeas, it did look like that due to being a reply. Looking at the whole conversation it is clear I am saying that Vlag cost us something (Slayers, time and even the single digit casualties matter with our numbers) and no one expected it to, but looking at this reply alone is a bit muddier. Let me post the whole conversation to make perusing easier (with apologies to Alratan and Klaus for the ping)

Klaus said:
(other part of the post cut by me because its irrelevant) Another victory like that and the expedition may be finished.
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storryeater said:
Honestly, that's the best argument against going. Yeah, Karak Vlag was a victory, yeah, it should not be regretted, but another triumpth like that will make the expedition to auto-fail, especially since we also have to get the za goblet.
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Alratan said:
Mathilde should be going alone to trade and gather intelligence. She doesn't need to do anything there apart from going shopping and a bit of mild snooping.

What do you think this will cost the Expedition?
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storryeater said:
What did anyone think Vlag would?
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picklepikkl said:
We know because everyone has been telling us that for ingame years. We have zero special indication that the skaven are up to something.
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We had zero indication that Karak Vlag was a back door into reality for the chaos forces to make use of. Not every thing needs to have years of in game foreshadowing to be an issue, the option has been presented to us, it's not a player option. Chances are the QM will be dice rolling to see what the skaven are up to and if he rolls that they want to be on the look out for something coming from kislev due to the Ice witches clearing the pass we'll have no warning about an attack or interception unless Mathilde you know does her scouting thing. What you've said is not a valid counter argument.
 
NSMS said:
If she didn't mention them, then I'm running under the assumption she didn't see them. Because for her not to do so would feel rather out of character- Mathilde's no saint, but she is a devout Ranaldite.
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We have books on Kislev, he took courses about them, we know they are slavers, whether or not Mathidle's supposedly delicate eyes have actually seen on the reality of it or not. It feels fundamentally hypocritical of Mathilde to object not to the existence of slavery but simply to the sight of it.
 
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