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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Gingganz said:
Ah, okay, if Marienburg is automatically suspect that it is most likely a frame job.

However I don't really see much evidence for Skaven involvement. The Warp powder may just have come from unscrupulos or desperate people going through the remains of the Skaven undercity in Ubersreik. The evidence is not conclusive enough for an accusation, but I suspect that someone in the Empire is trying to lure the Dwarfs into open war with Marienburg, so that the Empire can annex it.
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Making warpstone gunpowder that actually adds to the boom rather than just making it poisonious is something that would absolutely require expert knowledge. I don't think you could expect desperate people to simply grind warpstone down and add it to gunpowder and get the effect they want, not with out a massive and drastic jump in the number of people mutating locally. aerosolizing warpstone via grinding it down to use as an additive is what makes it so unlikely that it was a human force.
 
Prospalz said:
There was that dark elf in K8P basement. Raw logistics are still somewhat of an issue, but...
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...

Son of a bitch.

Yeah, they'd be interested in provoking a War of Vengeance 2: Marienberg Boogaloo, they have the connections to acquire the powder, and the ability to pose as agents acting on Marienberg's behalf. Means, Motive, and Opportunity.
 
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BoneyM said:
enough windows for ventilation that he is able to get the lay of the land around it, one glimpse at a time. There's only so many shot towers in the Empire and each is known to its administrative apparatus so that if necessary they can be pressed into service of the Empire's military, so while the task is a tedious one, it's also a finite one. He eventually finds the shot tower that matches the one that he saw.
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Do the Golds have a forensics reference library, where they can just look up descriptions of the places - like the shot towers from the perspective of a bullet being made in one - or are there too many possible things that are commonly investigated to make that worthwhile without RL computing?


I also really like how you're having the Hochlander living up to the Grey's diplo/spy role, and achieving multiple goals with his actions in a way that integrates him to his various contacts.

The favor we pay him, have you been considering what he spends it on, or is that outside the scope of the quest?

(I just really like the idea of him getting various Ulgu gadgets to expand his personal capabilities (To the thread: shadowsteed cough, cough))
 
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Alectai said:
Dark Elves have the motive, another Karaz Ankor vs Ulthuan throwdown is very good for them. They can also pose as Elves working on Marienberg's behalf too to further muddy the waters. The only stretch in this case would be the acquisition of Skaven blackpowder because it falls into the Dark Elf pride hole, but if they have trade connections with the Skaven they could simply acquire it themselves.

Like, if we're asked "Can we prove it to Dwarfen satisfaction", we'd have to say "Unfortunately, no". If the answer is "What do you think", the answer would be "I think it was a false flag attempted to provoke the Karaz Ankor into lashing out at Marienberg to activate their defensive alliance with Ulthuan".
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We captured a dark elf working with Skaven didn't we?
There's a link right there.

Personally i'd go for framejob.
Kinda tempted to go inconclusive, but worried someone gets hotheaded and starts something before we're back and have time to study more.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Making warpstone gunpowder that actually adds to the boom rather than just making it poisonious is something that would absolutely require expert knowledge. I don't think you could expect desperate people to simply grind warpstone down and add it to gunpowder and get the effect they want, not with out a massive and drastic jump in the number of people mutating locally. aerosolizing warpstone via grinding it down to use as an additive is what makes it so unlikely that it was a human force.
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Also 'wyrdstone' is stupidly valuable and it is said to have all sorts of miraculous properties. Grinding it up into gunpowder would not be the most likely destination of it in human hands.

SakSak said:
I'd like to have a word of Boney on this please. When was this confirmed? Because it sounds very weird.
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It was confirmed repeatedly on the grounds that if overwork did not work like that no one would take it.
 
SakSak said:
I'd like to have a word of Boney on this please. When was this confirmed? Because it sounds very weird.
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BoneyM said:
- Any negative effects from Overwork taken during this turn will not begin until next turn.
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BoneyM said:
Overwork taken before the Expedition won't cause a malus until after it, it won't automatically kick in on midnight of the 1st of Nachgeheim.
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Anyway, I'm starting to lean towards spending the second overwork box on fixing up the spell, @TotallyNotEvil's point about cavalry is well-taken when we've got so much of it. Still on "frame job" for the investigation.
 
BeepSmile said:
Do the Golds have a forensics reference library, where they can just look up descriptions of the places - like the shot towers from the perspective of a bullet being made in one - or are there too many possible things that are commonly investigated to make that worthwhile without RL computing?
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If they did, that's the sort of thing that they'd keep to themselves, considering how sensitive the spells involved are.

BeepSmile said:
I also really like how you're having the Hochlander is living up to the Grey's diplo/spy role, and achieving multiple goals with his actions in a way that integrates him to his various contacts.

The favor we pay him, have you been considering what he spends it on, or is that outside the scope of the quest?
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He's banking it for now.

Zero Gravitas said:
Question @BoneyM : could Mathilde replicate the gunpowder and the whole set up with her resources and contacts ?
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Yes.
 
[X] The evidence points to a framejob
Somebody is trying to drive the Dwarves into war with Marienburg. Nobody wins when the forces of Order fight amongst themselves.

[X] Push on and try to improve the spell
Use overwork to spend another action to try to create a better delivery mechanism for the spell.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Making warpstone gunpowder that actually adds to the boom rather than just making it poisonious is something that would absolutely require expert knowledge. I don't think you could expect desperate people to simply grind warpstone down and add it to gunpowder and get the effect they want, not with out a massive and drastic jump in the number of people mutating locally. aerosolizing warpstone via grinding it down to use as an additive is what makes it so unlikely that it was a human force.
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Thats false: we know that such gunpowder exists:
BoneyM said:
But he does find something in parts of Reikland - blackpowder circulating among criminal organizations, said to be more reliable and produce a harder-hitting shot than regular blackpowder. His investigation is unable to find exactly who the ultimate supplier is, but all the trails seem to point in the direction of Ubersreik, where the Skaven undercity was recently exterminated.
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And that its easy to make:
BoneyM said:
So for a relatively small amount of warpstone, you get a more reliable ignition and a more efficient explosion than blackpowder on its own."

"How easy is it to create?"

"Depends how much you care about others. The Skaven have a process to make it much less radiant and therefore more efficient as well as safer to handle and use, but if you don't care about that you can just use the raw stuff. Grinding and mixing it would do terrible things to whoever does it, and you wouldn't want to be downwind of it when it ignites, but it could be done. The only tricky bit would be getting the warpstone in the first place."
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From this, I am confident the bomb and the mercs were from around Ubersriek. Further than that, we don't know. Definitely not skaven though. They don't have access to the barrel.
 
BoneyM said:
Yes, this is for the second overwork.
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So Mat's didn't use overwork this turn (yet)?

That changes things. We should definitely try to optimize it if that's the case.

Hm. Now I kinda doubt that Marienburg is involved. It's either Skaven framing the humans, Druchii with human agents, Chaos cultists or... Imperial black op.

And I really reeeally hope it's not the last one, because that's an Imperial civil war and a Karaz Ankor crusade rolled into one.
 
I wonder if we could write to what's-his-name the Elf ambassador, asking if the prisoner we delivered knew enough about general Druchi-Skaven trade ties to support or rule out this incident being Malekith trying to repeat the tactic that worked so well for him last time, but with a proxy to make it less obvious that this is supposed to drag Ulthuan into another destructive war against the Dawi...
 
As a matter of fact, I'm thinking the severely limited timewindows for the current Fog Path could actually put us in situations where we unintentionally back ourselves into a corner as we wait for the clock to tick down and the bridge to open, as it were.

Current fog path is a neat trick, but a better implemented fog path is a game changer. Any difficult terrain we can't traverse in the short timeframes that it's open will mean we have to detour, so the spell is entirely wasted, or we have to accept being a sitting duck for the entire day as we wait for conditions to be good again.

Imagine waiting ten hours during the day while parked beside a bog to wait for dusk, because going around would take a few days instead. It undermines one of the Expeditions greatest strenghts in that it's nearly always moving.

While sprinting horses can easily catch up, the time to rally a force necessary to threaten and the unrelenting movement of the wagons means actually getting us should prove hella tricky, especially if we can go over untraversable terrain at will.

But currently, we can't. And we should certainly take the chance to try and make it so we can.

With at-will Fog Path, we could do things like "letting" foes corral us into impassable terrain, pop Fog Path and have them play themselves. We could Dammerlitchreit an entire Wing of Demigryph Knights right up any pursuer's ass that think their flank is made safe by the shallow lake or river they are riding beside.

The tactical and strategical applications are potentially phenomenal, and the more broken up the terrain, the better off we are as we can leverage our assets way better than anyone else.
 
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Abhorsen said:
Thats false: we know that such gunpowder exists:

And that its easy to make:


From this, I am confident the bomb and the mercs were from around Ubersriek. Further than that, we don't know. Definitely not skaven though. They don't have access to the barrel.
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Huh, I thought I read through the text carefully but I still missed that, 'swhat I get for reading this whilst at work. Guess I'll come back when I have the chance to pour over things more carefully.
 
Here's my counter argument for why it's not Skaven, or at least not directly: there's literally no point in sourcing all the materials from Imperial foundries, because the only people who can tell are the Gold college, and the only reason they'd include that detail in a dwarven hit requires way too much double think and additional explanation for something happening half the Karaz Ankor away from the only golden wizards they let live within ten miles of them.

In addition, those materials are sourced in a line straight from Marienburg to the location. No identifying materials mean that Marienburg is the default suspect, but they've been sourced exactly how I'd expect an actual operative from Marienburg to source them anyways.

And you don't need to be a superspy to pick up a shady barrel of the good black powder, just lucky. Remember, it's entirely possible this wasn't meant to sink the boat at all, which drastically opens up the potential acceptability of an attempt's effectiveness.
 
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Wild-Ass Guess, the operation was a Marienburg plan that got hijacked by Skaven operatives. Even random bandits are probably better technicians than your average clan rat...
 
@BoneyM
Would it be possible to go for "inconclusive, but there is reason to believe it is a possible framejob", and then layout the evidence we have, including the druchii found with the skaven?
 
Blaming Marienburg is not an option, I don't think. Evidence on the source of the powder and the materials is too tenuous for me to support getting a grudge with Marienburg started. Leaning toward inconclusive or frame job: might be Skaven supplying human catspaws. We just don't have enough evidence and no more seems forthcoming right now.

Fehu said:
[X] The evidence points to a framejob
Somebody is trying to drive the Dwarves into war with Marienburg. Nobody wins when the forces of Order fight amongst themselves.
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Moratorium's still running for over an hour.
 
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