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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Shovern said:
It required dedication. many healthy relationships and Romances do involve to people dedicating themselves to each other, but not all Romances do in my opinion, that's what I was trying to say there.
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Fair enough, as is all the rest. But here specifically, I think I was running off something close to the actual dictionary definition—not that I had that specific one in mind—which when I do a google search comes up as "a feeling of mystery and excitement in association with love". Mostly the Love part, and basically that a romance needs depth of feeling, and length of time to be considered a romance rather than, say, a fling. Not that it's totally correct, of course, but I've never actually heard things like a single night of passion be called "romance", and I've seen a lot of things be called romance.
Garlak said:
I think some misunderstanding probably took place, yeah. Passion and interests in somebody's magic or nature could count, yeah, just... It's hard to express exactly. I guess it's more like an objection to the selected person, the dragon, specifically. That, to use an example or comparison, if it were passion and interest in Gilding or restoring the Caldera to life or waystones or maybe artillery or pets or whatever, it could work -- because those people would be Johann or Panoramia or Oswald. But there'd be more there, too. (i.e. If it were Max or Oswald or Kazrik or Gotri in the place here, and somebody was making the argument of wanting to get close to them over shared academic interest or interests in artillery or interests in runesmithing or curiosity about engineering... I'd shrug and go sure. But because it's the dragon, that's gets a 'No, because...' from me.) (Because I feel that those people, even if chosen to be approached for/from that particular reason... there'd still be more and other stuff, like the stuff I was sort of trying to define or explain, there too.)
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I... can't say I understand singling out a specific person to deny just for being said person, but it's your choice, I suppose. I wouldn't expect many people to agree though.
Garlak said:
And for the second paragraph... Well it's sort of like... If you want to explore otherworldly nature and magic and stuff, you still can do that even if the dragon doesn't win the romance vote. (Because, behold how many people would still be interested in pursuing that sort of stuff even afterwards. One of my posts -- maybe the same one -- said that too.) But if the humans lost the vote then if you want to pursue intimacy or a family or emotional closeness or sex still, then... you see the issue there, right?
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Ah, see, here's where the misunderstanding took place, I think. For some reason, you're equating the romantic interest with a particular goal. Like, "date a nerd if you want to be a scientist", and then claiming because they're superfluous to the goal—or at least being in a romantic relationship with them is—they shouldn't be considered for said interest. When instead they're simply attractive traits, such as. "I date nerds because they're smart, and it makes my heart flutter when they talk about nerdy stuff." Or for a more relevant example, I don't support the dragon as a legitimate option because I want to do research and to pick his brain—i do want that, but it's not why—but because the thought of an intelligent, powerful partner that loves books and can slaughter armies saying they love us makes me smile and feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It's the person that interests me, not what they can do for Mathilde. And if we ended up with anyone else, yes, we would lose that specific relationship for a shallower one with the dragon. Just like we would lose the chance for The adorable, perceptive, and cheerfully lethal Panoramia to say she loved us if we chose the dragon.

Does that make sense? Sorry if not, it's pretty late and I'm about to go to bed.
 
Ericwinter said:
Fair enough, as is all the rest. But here specifically, I think I was running off something close to the actual dictionary definition—not that I had that specific one in mind—which when I do a google search comes up as "a feeling of mystery and excitement in association with love". Mostly the Love part, and basically that a romance needs depth of feeling, and length of time to be considered a romance rather than, say, a fling. Not that it's totally correct, of course, but I've never actually heard things like a single night of passion be called "romance", and I've seen a lot of things be called romance.
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I'll admit when I went with a night of passion I took it to far to the other extreme, but from the Oxford Dictionary:
Oxford said:
1. [countable] an exciting, usually short, relationship between two people who are in love with each other
  • a holiday romance
  • They had a whirlwind romance
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And I think I have read a few short stories based around a one night Romance. Just can't remember any titles for the life of me.

Though I am hoping for more of their second definition personally.
Oxford said:
[uncountable] love or the feeling of being in love
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Shovern said:
I'll admit when I went with a night of passion I took it to far to the other extreme, but from the Oxford Dictionary:

And I think I have read a few short stories based around a one night Romance. Just can't remember any titles for the life of me.

Though I am hoping for more of their second definition personally.
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Huh. Different dictionaries, I guess. but that makes a bit more sense. And yeah, I definitely prefer the second one. Granted, that might not be possible with the dragon, for one reason or another, but I've yet to see definitive proof of that, and the same could be said of anyone else.

Aby who, I'm about to pass out. Night all.
 
Ericwinter said:
saying they love us makes me smile and feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It's the person that interests me, not what they can do for Mathilde.
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That's the part I'm doubtful about it turning out like that, hence my singling out a specific person, as you said. I don't think it's very likely that a relationship with the dragon would go like that. Hence my desire to focus on other people. And feeling like we'd still be able to get as much from the dragon even if we weren't

Also, "saying they love you" and "making you feel all warm and fuzzy inside" is something that definitely fits in as a "what they can do for Mathilde." To love and to cherish. I doubt the dragon would be able, or perhaps willing, to do that to/for Mathilde.
I mean, not all of these options (of people) are equivalent, nor equivalently possible, nor of the same nature or potential. Sometimes you'll find out that some relationships or romances just aren't going to turn out. I don't think that just by voting towards a possibility that we will make it possible and make it happen, just because we voted for it. (Kind of like with the Coin religious magic initial research forays showed us.)

Put in that way, that sort of explains why I both feel like we could still have the dragon friendship and magic, even without a romance vote. It's because I don't feel romance is really possible/plausible with them. Which means that, if I do want romance (as defined by me, I guess), it's gotta be from somebody else. Which means, if we were to pick the dragon itself, we wouldn't get that.

I mean, ironically, if we were both Hysh users -- or both Aqshy users, as Ulthuan's dragons seem to be -- I might maybe have been more... something. I don't know. Or perhaps a Gold Wizard, and turning ourselves into Gold. ... On the other hand, that would also be if/because it would be a very different kind of Mathilde... Actually I guess that's another thing that's sort of popped up in my mind now. Mathilde herself, and her character and personality and habits. Her love of romance books, for example. The picture I have of her, the things she's done or expressed or thought about, and all the books she's collected and read have sort of built up a particular view and possibility in my mind. Somebody who was less Mathilde-like -- not even just 'Mathilde, but Hysh'/'Mathilde, but Chamon' alone but also somebody who was less... the way/who Mathilde is now :)v) (??) -- it might have maybe felt more plausible.
Ericwinter said:
Aby who, I'm about to pass out. Night all.
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Heh, know what that's like. Good night.
 
The weirdest thing about deciding a characters sexuality by committee is that as a polyam-pan-sapioromantic-demisexual what I really want for Mathilde is a Google calendar and a couple radically different fulfilling relationships.
Dragoncuddles with books and flying though lighting storms 📚 hell yeah
Boxing and college politics with goldenboi, hot
Gardening and metamagic theory crafting, sounds like a solid afternoon
Banging the crap out of that elf that pulled the dispearing figurine trick, who's hiding the figurine now Ambassador?
And Oswald, in the middle of nowhere we run into a mostly ordinary guy who knows trig and chemistry because not everyone has magic tricks. Brutal. Show me your cannons.
Seven days in a week and we have to eat meals for every one of them. Might as well have company.
 
We should mention the ice witches to Cython next time we meet. He clearly can pull off some form of ice magic, but there's a good chance they've pushed it further than what it's considered.
 
BurnNote said:
I wonder if dragon gods are a thing?
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Considering at least a minority of dragons are literally older than the gods, I would be very much surprised. Also, dragons don't seem much given to worship, even if they acknowledge gods as existing and having power.
Shovern said:
there are just some people in the thread that want one more dragon bone in Mathilde's life.
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:thonk: Phrasing!

...Are we still doing phrasing?
 
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thepsyborg said:
Considering at least a minority of dragons are literally older than the gods, I would be very much surprised. Also, dragons don't seem much given to worship, even if they acknowledge gods as existing and having power.
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The dragons are older than elven gods. They obviously wouldn't be older than dragon gods. And I can see them tend towards something like ancestor worship (which would make the dwarven gods even more interesting for Cython).
 
I'd kind of like another Roswita romance option at some point, that was good but we didn't get as much one on one time as some of the others.
 
BurnNote said:
The dragons are older than elven gods. They obviously wouldn't be older than dragon gods. And I can see them tend towards something like ancestor worship (which would make the dwarven gods even more interesting for Cython).
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I don't think there would be gods before the Coming of the Old Ones, without the polar vortex the infuence of the warp on the material world would either be very low or nil.
 
DragonParadox said:
I don't think there would be gods before the Coming of the Old Ones, without the polar vortex the infuence of the warp on the material world would either be very low or nil.
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Magic was a thing before, as seen by all the magic dragons. What do you think the Old Ones used for all their bullshit? So why wouldn't gods be a thing, given they are at least in some way a form of magic? Finally, something not existing hasn't stopped people from worshiping it.
 
BurnNote said:
Magic was a thing before, as seen by all the magic dragons. What do you think the Old Ones used for all their bullshit? So why wouldn't gods be a thing, given they are at least in some way a form of magic? Finally, something not existing hasn't stopped people from worshiping it.
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Well given that magic as we understand it is only possible because of the polar gates leaking Aethyer into the world to become the winds of magic I'd suggest there was no magic prior to that as a pretty strong possible conclusion.

Ultimately it depends on what the polar gates were meant to be/do, if they were a lock on the Aethyer and it was already present then you would be correct, if instead it's a custom build device by the Old ones to literally punch a hole in reality to drag the Aethyer out into real space to make use of to power their technology then magic definitely didn't exist on the warhammer world prior to the old ones arrival, if the first scenario is correct it didn't exist afterwards when they locked it all behind the polar gates.
 
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I will say that as much as I like the dragon, Panoramia is the only love interest who I actually feel romantic undertones in our interactions with them. Cython feels like a wide sage that we could get along with, almost like a Lord Magister from another culture, but the interaction with him gave me no romantic vibes at all. I want to hang out with him more and learn more about him, but I can't support him as the choice for our romantic partner, especially when Panoramia fits so well with her byplay with Mathilde.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Well given that magic as we understand it is only possible because of the polar gates leaking Aethyer into the world to become the winds of magic I'd suggest there was no magic prior to that as a pretty strong possible conclusion.
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If the winds were a post gate thing, then it would be very strange that the native dragons would all naturally align with a single wind.
 
Sir Bidoof said:
I will say that as much as I like the dragon, Panoramia is the only love interest who I actually feel romantic undertones in our interactions with them. Cython feels like a wide sage that we could get along with, almost like a Lord Magister from another culture, but the interaction with him gave me no romantic vibes at all. I want to hang out with him more and learn more about him, but I can't support him as the choice for our romantic partner, especially when Panoramia fits so well with her byplay with Mathilde.
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Given that BoneyM explicitly wrote the interactions with the intention of them being completely aromantic so as to not unfairly bias the thread towards one option over another, i'm pretty sure anything read into any of them that carries that is entirely imaginary on the part of the reader.

BurnNote said:
If the winds were a post gate thing, then it would be very strange that the native dragons would all naturally align with a single wind.
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I suppose it depends what the Old ones and the Dragons did together. We know they existed before the coming of the old ones but the fact that the old one build the mega structures they did on the poles and the geomantic web, means either the old ones conquered them or they did it together. The old ones being masters of Aethyer technology almost certainly would know about what happens when it leaks into the world perhaps they taught the dragons some of what they knew of it and the dragons chose to align themselves to a single wind when the gates broke down due to not having the capability to master multiple winds like humans cant.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Given that BoneyM explicitly wrote the interactions with the intention of them being completely aromantic so as to not unfairly bias the thread towards one option over another, i'm pretty sure anything read into any of them that carries that is entirely imaginary on the part of the reader.
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Be careful mate a hundred, or more, rabid shippers might be after you for so bluntly delivering the naked truth upon their wild delusions.
 
BurnNote said:
If the winds were a post gate thing, then it would be very strange that the native dragons would all naturally align with a single wind.
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True. Also, hmm, even in this scenario, that still leaves the possibility that while Sevir didn't enter the world... but maybe Aethyr did. Just, it would have entered wholly and not differentiated. That is to say: maybe all magic was divine magic, then.

Also, I wanna say that the Dwarfs 'magic' was internal to them, or came from within, that I read that somewhere (possibly in this thread) but I don't recall exact context and source. (Could just mean that Runesmithing was uniquely Dwarfen. That is. A result of who and what the Dwarfs were as a people. And thus, their magic -- 'magic' -- came from who they are rather than the Sevir that others could wield so long as they could connect to the winds of magic. Then again, I just said "so long as they could connect to the winds of magic" and the Dwarfs can't, so.)

EDIT: Or maybe it couldn't enter the physical world, naturally, and so it was all 'internally' magic. i.e. Racial magic. Like Runesmithing.

And perhaps the 'racial magic' of the Dragons... was that of elementalism, or the 8 colors...
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Given that BoneyM explicitly wrote the interactions with the intention of them being completely aromantic so as to not unfairly bias the thread towards one option over another, i'm pretty sure anything read into any of them that carries that is entirely imaginary on the part of the reader.
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There's a lot of room for characters to have chemistry or lack thereof, or to show sides of themselves that are desirable in a romantic partner, even in a nominally nonromantic setting.

Like, Roswita, Panoramia, and Johann have all engaged in banter, there have been smiley awkward or giggly moments with all of them. For most of us, these are the little milestones that, potentially, lead down the path to love.

These scenes aren't written with the intent of presenting Mathilde as already being attracted to the characters... but that doesn't mean they won't give us insights into how lovable these characters are for Mathilde, or what Mathilde might love about them, or what kind of relationship Mathilde might have with them if she got together with them.

Indeed, they'd be pretty unsatisfactory for their stated purpose if they didn't give us those insights, because that's what they're for.
 
The general idea was to give the thread a better idea of who these potential romance partners are, what their goals are, and what their chemistry is like with Mathilde. With the last, it was entirely a matter of putting them in the same place and seeing what happened, rather than aiming for a specific way I wanted them to come across. If some seem more romance-y than others, that might be because of the setting or the chemistry or some combination of the two. And seeing how every single one of these scenes so far has had people saying it made them ship it and other people saying it made them not ship it, this is deep within subjective territory and it's normal for two people to get something completely different out of reading the same scene. Romance is complicated even when there's no wizards or dragons involved.
 
BoneyM said:
The general idea was to give the thread a better idea of who these potential romance partners are, what their goals are, and what their chemistry is like with Mathilde. With the last, it was entirely a matter of putting them in the same place and seeing what happened, rather than aiming for a specific way I wanted them to come across. If some seem more romance-y than others, that might be because of the setting or the chemistry or some combination of the two. And seeing how every single one of these scenes so far has had people saying it made them ship it and other people saying it made them not ship it, this is deep within subjective territory and it's normal for two people to get something completely different out of reading the same scene. Romance is complicated even when there's no wizards or dragons involved.
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Hey, romance gets very simple when dragons are involved: Always romance the dragon :V
 
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