- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
There's roughly a 0% chance he didn't get hammered into ice cubes by enthusiastic dwarves the moment we brought him down.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
There's roughly a 0% chance he didn't get hammered into ice cubes by enthusiastic dwarves the moment we brought him down.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Counterpoint: There is nothing Johann likes more to throw at enemies than himself.
Mathilde just recognizes that people over-complicate things. People spend millenia trying to crack the Skaven language. Did anyone try asking one? If Mathilde has learned anything, it's that "Hit it until it stops doing evil (magic) things" works.
Yeah. Even if he is still alive, there is no chance Birdmuncha would not be crushed. Heck, turning him into ice cubes would be the smart idea beyond studying an Waaagh Warboss.
- Location
- Norway
Dwarfs all muttering to each other "once again the umgi zhufokri did something ridiculous but once again it's in our favor so let's not grumble too loudly".
Someone probably did, repeatedly, and the answers tended to involve a lot of assassination. Usually of the human asking, but frequently also of the Skaven who was in a position to be asked, just to be sure. That's how Skaven roll. Can't trust anyone who has that much rapport with man-things.
Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
Now I'll admit, this might be me just being butthurt, but I do think Johann's (and Roswita's) first Romance action got... gimped by two issues.
Like other people have brought up, this was a religious festival, rather than a more traditional date such as a dinner. This not only changes the context around it, by giving it a more formal tone and such, but the "Romantic" aspect of the festival is one that Boney wouldn't explore since having "It's apparently an unspoken tradition for courting couples to venture into the mines together and return with a suspicious lack of ore." Come up as anything besides an awkward conversation would be a massive leap forward.
It also as other people have said, brought more word focus on the cultural event that was happening, Which makes sense it was a very interesting bit of world building, which I did enjoy, but it did take up space, and it did take a bit of the focus away from Mathilde and Johann, compared to the explicitly one on one nature of Panoramia's Dinner date. For example:
One thing I've seen brought up is how much Mathidle fretted over the Panpan date. And while I'd love to bring up this as a counter example, I can't, because I don't know if this was a "Pre Date Nerves" or if this is "Inviting yourself to Your Friends Church" thing. Whereas Frankly I imagine, if we had selected the Johann physical fitness option instead, then that sort of thing would be much more obvious.
I could bring up some of the same points about Roswita actually, The fact that we went to an event with her , rather than date, I feel really did , cut into the amount of time dedicated to her and Mathilde's interaction, as more of it had to be dedicated to the event, compared to say, the boat trip.
And secondly, I think Johann's date was affected by something no other date will be affected by. It served as a bookend to the two of them starting off the reclamation with the gas mask. Which don't get me wrong, it was a very important and well done scene, but having it serve as the end of the Date, did make it feel like the date ended on a discussion about work, rather than personal interaction between the two.
Narratively that sort of acknowledgment needed to happen. But personally I feel like it should have happend at some other earlier point. Not during the first Tentative Romance action.
Though to give Boney credit, we do still see signs that they can banter:
And we do still see signs of how they get along in a more serious sense:
But, to me anyway, those seem to have been overshadowed by BoneyM's world building. Where a more personal situation, would have been more... personal.
TL;DR: I think Johann was outshined by worldbuilding, and I hope he can get a more Date like setting to try and shine.
Like other people have brought up, this was a religious festival, rather than a more traditional date such as a dinner. This not only changes the context around it, by giving it a more formal tone and such, but the "Romantic" aspect of the festival is one that Boney wouldn't explore since having "It's apparently an unspoken tradition for courting couples to venture into the mines together and return with a suspicious lack of ore." Come up as anything besides an awkward conversation would be a massive leap forward.
It also as other people have said, brought more word focus on the cultural event that was happening, Which makes sense it was a very interesting bit of world building, which I did enjoy, but it did take up space, and it did take a bit of the focus away from Mathilde and Johann, compared to the explicitly one on one nature of Panoramia's Dinner date. For example:
One thing I've seen brought up is how much Mathidle fretted over the Panpan date. And while I'd love to bring up this as a counter example, I can't, because I don't know if this was a "Pre Date Nerves" or if this is "Inviting yourself to Your Friends Church" thing. Whereas Frankly I imagine, if we had selected the Johann physical fitness option instead, then that sort of thing would be much more obvious.
I could bring up some of the same points about Roswita actually, The fact that we went to an event with her , rather than date, I feel really did , cut into the amount of time dedicated to her and Mathilde's interaction, as more of it had to be dedicated to the event, compared to say, the boat trip.
And secondly, I think Johann's date was affected by something no other date will be affected by. It served as a bookend to the two of them starting off the reclamation with the gas mask. Which don't get me wrong, it was a very important and well done scene, but having it serve as the end of the Date, did make it feel like the date ended on a discussion about work, rather than personal interaction between the two.
Narratively that sort of acknowledgment needed to happen. But personally I feel like it should have happend at some other earlier point. Not during the first Tentative Romance action.
Though to give Boney credit, we do still see signs that they can banter:
And we do still see signs of how they get along in a more serious sense:
But, to me anyway, those seem to have been overshadowed by BoneyM's world building. Where a more personal situation, would have been more... personal.
TL;DR: I think Johann was outshined by worldbuilding, and I hope he can get a more Date like setting to try and shine.
Don't forget assassinating each other. I'm pretty sure half the assassins die because another assassin.Someone probably did, repeatedly, and the answers tended to involve a lot of assassination. Usually of the human asking, but frequently also of the Skaven who was in a position to be asked, just to be sure. That's how Skaven roll.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
I think one thing we should keep in mind with Mathilde and romance is that she isn't quite human anymore, in both her actions and what she likes. Maybe it would be more accurately to say she is decidedly neuro-atypical. But this is normal for a wizard, as they get more powerful, they act less human. This is even expected behavior of a wizard, and normal people just expect this from them, but if a normal person acted like wizards do, they'd be very annoyed, instead of only slightly annoyed. Take Dragomas as an example. It took years for him to wear pants. This was while he was the Supreme Patriarch and showed up in the Emperor's council chambers. With no shirt and hopefully some kind of loincloth.
Now for Greys, this has a few consequences.
First, they tend not to reproduce, especially the competent ones. I recall a boney quote about this that said something like "The ones that do generally shouldn't, and the ones that shouldn't generally don't."
On top of this, they are paranoid as heck and fiercely loyal to the empire. Or dead. We can just look at how Mathilde suspected Anton even after she had known him for nearly 10 years, she was still not sure his innocence was real.
Third, they act all-knowing, even more than other, non-celestial, wizards. This could be obnoxious if done badly, but Mathilde mostly skates while only casually terrifying some.
Fourth (and now getting more specific to Mathilde), Mathilde has expressed this weirdness by wordplay, especially acronyming everything she can, preferably after herself. Doylistically, this is the thread having fun. But Watsonianly, this is one way Mathilde expresses wizard weirdness. It also plays into her "I know something you don't know" Grey Wizardlyness.
Fifth, she loves exploring magic (or other fields of study, but mostly magic), and enjoys talking about it.
Sixth, she thinks a little dwarfily. This is somewhat less apparent recently but she began using dwarf metaphors in her head (I can't recall any recent ones).
Now, how does this relate to Romance?
Well, dating a dragon is no big deal for her (she's not quite human, I doubt she'd care). The issue is that it's a Hysh dragon, who's more all knowing than her (though getting under the skin like she did in the update was fun), but the potential for magic undoes much of this. I could see this working, if the dragon is interested in us.
Johann may or may not be wholely trusted, but that pales in comparison to the lack of ability to talk magic with him. Without the skaven stuff, there's no projects to do with him anymore (regardless of my position on romancing Johann, we should consider just dumping him for the half action, along with perhaps handing the EIC to the Hochlander. He's not going to be all that useful in the future without skaven stuff to research, and the actions gained could be really useful right now).
Roswita is compatible with all but the magic, but we can investigate other things with her. Oswald similarly, but without the shared history.
Anton, for whatever reason, Mathilde still doesn't trust entirely (he's too nice to be real).
Panoramia kinda pierced our all-knowingness, but doesn't burst our bubble by ruining everyone else's awe. And sometimes we get one over her (the Staff of Mistery, and us being a Ranald cultist, for example), which seem more satisfying.
Now for Greys, this has a few consequences.
First, they tend not to reproduce, especially the competent ones. I recall a boney quote about this that said something like "The ones that do generally shouldn't, and the ones that shouldn't generally don't."
On top of this, they are paranoid as heck and fiercely loyal to the empire. Or dead. We can just look at how Mathilde suspected Anton even after she had known him for nearly 10 years, she was still not sure his innocence was real.
Third, they act all-knowing, even more than other, non-celestial, wizards. This could be obnoxious if done badly, but Mathilde mostly skates while only casually terrifying some.
Fourth (and now getting more specific to Mathilde), Mathilde has expressed this weirdness by wordplay, especially acronyming everything she can, preferably after herself. Doylistically, this is the thread having fun. But Watsonianly, this is one way Mathilde expresses wizard weirdness. It also plays into her "I know something you don't know" Grey Wizardlyness.
Fifth, she loves exploring magic (or other fields of study, but mostly magic), and enjoys talking about it.
Sixth, she thinks a little dwarfily. This is somewhat less apparent recently but she began using dwarf metaphors in her head (I can't recall any recent ones).
Now, how does this relate to Romance?
Well, dating a dragon is no big deal for her (she's not quite human, I doubt she'd care). The issue is that it's a Hysh dragon, who's more all knowing than her (though getting under the skin like she did in the update was fun), but the potential for magic undoes much of this. I could see this working, if the dragon is interested in us.
Johann may or may not be wholely trusted, but that pales in comparison to the lack of ability to talk magic with him. Without the skaven stuff, there's no projects to do with him anymore (regardless of my position on romancing Johann, we should consider just dumping him for the half action, along with perhaps handing the EIC to the Hochlander. He's not going to be all that useful in the future without skaven stuff to research, and the actions gained could be really useful right now).
Roswita is compatible with all but the magic, but we can investigate other things with her. Oswald similarly, but without the shared history.
Anton, for whatever reason, Mathilde still doesn't trust entirely (he's too nice to be real).
Panoramia kinda pierced our all-knowingness, but doesn't burst our bubble by ruining everyone else's awe. And sometimes we get one over her (the Staff of Mistery, and us being a Ranald cultist, for example), which seem more satisfying.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What do you mean poor? Punch Wizarding takes a lot of money and time to achive mastery of you know!Ah, yes, the Poor Man's Dispel Magic, cousin to the Poor Man's Hold Person: They can't do bad things if you whack them in the head hard enough.
- Location
- Aotearoa
"You had skill, yes-yes. But not as much as me-I, or even as much as the sneak-quiet man-thing who hunt-stalked traitor-Clan Mors."
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In no particular order:
- We don't get the half action back if we fire Johann. We have to find someone else to do his job or lose the half action.
- Johann is our adventuring buddy.
- Even without the Skaven stuff he has very useful skills and magic to bring to any research. Ones that Max and Adela don't.
- Johann is the only other human character to assimilate into dwarf culture like we have.
- Johann is perfectly capable of talking magic its just in his very narrow field of physical expressions of Chamon.
- While he is not an academic like Mathilde he is the only one of the winning 6 that is also an adventurer and fighter. Gretel also fits this but she didn't make the cut. While Oswald, Roswita and Panoramia all do, and even enjoy, combat they are all both tied down in ways Johann and Mathilde aren't and don't find it as fun for its own sake as Johann and Mathilde do.
- Location
- Australia
You're thinking of Max. Johann can't even speak Khazalid. He worships a dwarf god but that's as far as it goes.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I'll point out that he's incapable of talking Magic in the literal sense; he literally doesn't know the language.
Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
I'm mean, I'd call worshiping Dwarf Gods and attending Dwarf Religious festivals to be integrating. Though it is strange he doesn't speak kazalid by now.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Johann has literally converted to the Ancestor Gods and is a lay memeber of the Cult of Grungi. And given some of the hints in text and his difficulty with abstract magic I suspect he might be dyslexic and/or have difficulty with language in general.
He doesn't know Eltharin or magic elf (I absolutely have dyslexia) but he has to be able to speak Lingua [magic} to cast spells.
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- Location
- Norway
Or drop one of the others - for example merging Maximilian into Ducklings as "Wizards of K8P".
- Location
- Aotearoa
Boney said that Johann has only memorised the wrote phrases for the spells he know, he doesn't speak it more broadly.
Not that you're wrong per say, and she's definitely like Rosie in having found her purpose, but it seems even here Panoramia has some
'Cheerily efficient weaponisation' certainly is a flavourful phrase.
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- Location
- Nowhere, Midwestern USA
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
I haven't shown my face in this thread in a long time, admittedly, but I'm 100% on board with the Roswita-as-little-sister thing. It's adorable, and I hope to see more of her. Also, we should consider, at some point, letting Roswita have her "full inheritance", unless I'm forgetting something that already happened. She seems to me to be without the fanaticism that we saw, leading us to keep it.
Also still shipping Mathilde x her library (ace-aro Math), but I'm still enjoying the Romance plot lines, and I like the Dragon. I'm going to try to pick up voting more often; I just don't have the time to read everything in this thread to make as good a choice as I could have, at one point.
Also still shipping Mathilde x her library (ace-aro Math), but I'm still enjoying the Romance plot lines, and I like the Dragon. I'm going to try to pick up voting more often; I just don't have the time to read everything in this thread to make as good a choice as I could have, at one point.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I did say that she enjoyed it.
But she doesn't go out of her way to make it part of her job the way Johann and Mathilde do.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
WOG is actually that he doesn't, IIRC; he's memorised enough phrases to get by with his spells, but he can't speak the language.
Is this what you wanted to say? Because from context, that's not what you wanted to say. It's also pretty rude, and factually wrong.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thanks. Honestly that makes me even more sure that he has somekind of issue with languages.
Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
He might be dyslexic, but another thing to consider is that Johann really didn't seem to get a proper magic education.
I mean his master is an ascended Battle Wizard, and he is incompatible with two thirds of his colleges fields of expertise. Hell they explicitly denied him access to opportunities they gave to others:
And if I dug more I know there are other hints that he really got shafted in regards to his education. The fact that he made Magister despite all of this really does speak to his drive.
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