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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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A dwarf gun with the favors were investing might be epic tough as a alternative idea to consider.

id advocate for flamberge/greatsword still but if we dont cheap out we could get both a great weapon and a great necklace . 10+8 should be about fine for both for pretty great both options anyway. We have gotten favor for just basic tasks and luck atm already each of the last two turns.
 
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[X] Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[X] You've heard that greatswords and greataxes are near identical in the way they're used, and you happen to be surrounded by experts in the art of the axe. Learn how to use one.
[X] Now that you know (well, remember) a little more, a certain suspicion is growing. Pin him down and ask his intentions regarding Skaven technology.
 
Slamu said:
On the topic of spending dwarf favor to get runic items, I'm inclined against weaponry right now, and am thinking more along the lines of anti-magic capabilities. Dwarfs do that "very well", and in both of the Drakenhof sieges our anti-magic options were "point guns at it until it stops being a thing". Which is entirely satisfactory...if you're a dwarf. We are, much as we like them, not a dwarf. We're a waterfall crafter, and our job on the battlefield is to keep other casters from having their wicked ways with our charges (and to have our own wicked way in turn, if practicable). We have shirked dispelling duty before, but at our magic level we're running low on excuses. We're a trained magister with an embarassingly high magic rating, while our Learning isn't anything to sneeze at. Yes, I'd prefer to kill the shamans and seers before the battle ever begins, but that won't always be practicable. Case in point; if there had been a fight this update, we wouldn't have had much of a chance to poison them the night before. To that end, I am in favor of something to help us dispel enemy magic, like a rune of spellbreaking or whatever other option there is. A metal tablet that is, functionally, a rechargeable Dispel Scroll we could use once a month would be very handy, or a dwarfen wand that gives us a flat +20 on dispel attempts or something like that? Do not just us but the entire army a favor.

...

[x] Barak Varr has a number of Runepriests, and Kragg the Grim himself is marching with the Expedition. There's not likely to be a better time to commission a runic item (Specify: type of item, desired effect, number of favours to be spent)
-[x] Anti-magic
See above for reasoning.
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As you aptly point out here, we are not a dwarf. We are a wizard, one with an impressive rating in magic by any reasonable standard and a respectable one for learning; when it's time to dispel things we use either counterspelling (details on how that works in-quest are in the spellbook threadmark post) or the dispel spell. Both of those involve Mathilde using magic. The dwarf methods of suppressing enemy magic are highly effective but not built to support, work around, or amplify a spellcaster because they don't have any. This means that either we'd be asking them for something which A) Mathilde is no more effective using than any random other person would be and, because she already has a lot to do in battles and one of those things is using her own (counter)magic, would be better off placed in the hands of someone else, or B) is basically asking them for some kind of magical booster/amplifier which, as noted by the GM, "would require you find a significantly more radical Runelord than Kragg the Grim". Neither of those is something we want.

Anti-magic is a fine option for whatever device we get, but not in the way you're describing here. The kinds of dwarf anti-magic that Mathilde can make good use of are either protective devices to weaken/nullify incoming hostile spells with no action at all on her part (which is well-trod ground for dwarf heroes) or some kind of device to keep her own miscasts from getting her or someone else killed, probably by auto-dispelling them. The latter in particular would be worth pursuing, because not only would it be nice in the stress of battle and when using battle spells, it would likely make magical research and experimentation much safer.

Anyway, getting Mathilde a counterspell booster is chasing a solution that doesn't have a problem. She's quite capable of shutting down enemy mages (we didn't "shirk" that at Drakenhof, we wisely decided that one heavily injured wizard was a shit countermagic option compared to dozens of cannon), we've got five journeymen several of whom appear to be Magic 5+, Kragg the Grim is so good at shutting down magic it was in his introductory flavor text, and we're probably going to pick up another runepriest or two in Barak Varr. Our abilities in the magic/countermagic sphere might not be overwhelming but they are competitive with anything we can reasonably expect to face.
 
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[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[X] You've heard that greatswords and greataxes are near identical in the way they're used, and you happen to be surrounded by experts in the art of the axe. Learn how to use one.
 
[X] Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Now that you know (well, remember) a little more, a certain suspicion is growing. Pin him down and ask his intentions regarding Skaven technology.
 
Some reasons why we should get some axe training.

More Martial) Training in a another weapon is likely to result in a bonus to our martial score as Mathilde learns more about weaponry. It also means that if her sword breaks it's a lot easier to get access to a substitute whether on the battlefield or in the camp.

Dwarf Favor) I don't mean actual dwarf favor, but the dwarfs would probably be pretty happy if Mathilde stopped using her silly manling weapon. Also if it's known that Mathilde is proficient in using an axe but is still using a basic manling sword then it wouldn't surprise me if a dwarf decided to gift her a weapon. It would be pretty understandable if a senior apprentice runesmith decided that he wanted to attach his name to a heroine by giving her one of his simple projects. We could easily get a favor 1 or 2 weapon simply by chance that way which would be pretty nice.



Exmorri said:
I see a lot of people voting for this, but I'm curious what the benefit is supposed to be. If he says he hasn't got any such intentions, or knows nothing, we get nothing out of it -- whereas if he says that yes, he is planning on poking Skaven technology, what do we gain? Are we going to try to stop him? Wouldn't we notice it anyway when he, well, started poking Skaven technology? I'm unclear on what people want to do with this information.
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I'm right there with you. But I think it's because people want to spend time with him but don't trust him enough to want to give Mathilde's personal backing for putting him with the artillery. Basically it looks like a generic 'spend time with you' option although with undertones of suspicion.
 
WorldSlayer said:
Dwarf Favor) I don't mean actual dwarf favor, but the dwarfs would probably be pretty happy if Mathilde stopped using her silly manling weapon. Also if it's known that Mathilde is proficient in using an axe but is still using a basic manling sword then it wouldn't surprise me if a dwarf decided to gift her a weapon. It would be pretty understandable if a senior apprentice runesmith decided that he wanted to attach his name to a heroine by giving her one of his simple projects. We could easily get a favor 1 or 2 weapon simply by chance that way which would be pretty nice.
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Knowing how to use multiple weapons isn't a bad thing, but I don't think we're going to give up our greatsword. Again, it's the sign of our house, the sign of our college, the sign of our company, the apparently only direct remaining legacy of Markus, and the weapon we've been working with since we started working with weapons.

I don't think we'd be gifted an axe unless we made a direct request for one, specifically because of the honor things; if we didn't use the gift it'd be an insult, and friends don't corner people into situations where they either have to insult their friends or give up weapons and fighting styles they've forged extensive ties with.
 
chocolote12 said:
Knowing how to use multiple weapons isn't a bad thing, but I don't think we're going to give up our greatsword. Again, it's the sign of our house, the sign of our college, the sign of our company, the apparently only direct remaining legacy of Markus, and the weapon we've been working with since we started working with weapons.
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I'm of the opinion that switching our weapons isn't a betrayal of our friendship but I'm also not in a hurry to pick up a Runefang axe. I would prefer a Talisman that helps with miscasts or ward saves. I still want to train with the dwarfs, because Fighting is one of the things most likely to kill us and training with them means that we are less likely to die. I want to be as good as possible and as well equipped as possible so that we can survive this and reclaim the hold.
 
Considering that she got lucky with that 98 giving her a good find even with the fact that her progress was in the QM's words much impeded "Her delves into the Forest of Gloom were largely uneventful, but progress was severely limited by having to skirt widely around tracts of giant spider territory." If we go with her even a low roll has a chance of getting us some good stuff. This is the last chance she and us will have to look for anything in the forest so we should got sense we spent time making the bottles for no gain.

Why In the world should we spend time learning to use an axe and then getting it runed when we have a great sword that we can have worked on by a gold wizard and then enchanted with our own wind. When are we going to use this great axe and how are we going to carry the thing when we all ready have a great sword because you can't carry a great axe on your belt. Also a sword is the more agile weapon because all parts of the weapon are deadly in a way you do not see with axes and because the weight of a sword is balanced much closer to or right at the hands while most of the weight of an axe is at the head. You can turn and maneuver a sword in ways that you can't with an axe and that scales to fair degree as they get biger, that is one is why swords are used in fencing not axes

[X]Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[X] The Forest of Gloom is still accessible if you summon a horse for her. Guard her as she ventures back into the Forest of Gloom to hunt for useful ingredients.
[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Now that you know (well, remember) a little more, a certain suspicion is growing. Pin him down and ask his intentions regarding Skaven technology.
[x] Barak Varr has a number of Runepriests, and Kragg the Grim himself is marching with the Expedition. There's not likely to be a better time to commission a runic item (Specify: type of item, desired effect, number of favours to be spent)
-[x] Talisman
-[x] Antimagic/Protection
-[x] 15 Favors
 
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Oksbad said:
We should really have a separate vote if the item wins, like the gun vote.
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Looking at the current tally, that action may be out of the running for this vote. If it's still available and wins on a subsequent Turn, I agree that a separate vote as to the item's specifics may be a good idea. But what if, instead of adding it to the usual voting options at the end of each update, the QM utilizes the 'Add Poll' option in the Thread Tools?

A poll could be made with a list of options including all 3 relevant factors: Type of item, desired Effect, and Cost in favors. For example:
  • Great Sword (Type)
  • Great Axe (Type)
  • Dagger (Type)
  • Talisman (Type)
  • Goggles (Type)
  • Boots (Type)
  • Anti-Magic (Effect)
  • Flaming (Effect)
  • Ward Save (Effect)
  • Something Really, Really Killy (Effect)
  • 3 Dwarf Favor (Cost)
  • 5 Dwarf Favor (Cost)
  • 8 Dwarf Favor (Cost)
  • 10 Dwarf Favor (Cost)
  • 12 Dwarf Favor (Cost)
  • 15 Dwarf Favor (Cost)
  • All of Mathilde's Dwarf Favor (Cost)
The poll could be set to allow users to choose as many options as they want when they cast their vote. When the poll is closed, the QM would then take the top choice in each of the 3 categories, and create the runic item from there. The vote can even be left open for multiple Turns, as IC it may take Kragg and any other Runepriests involved days, weeks or even months to complete the commission. Alternatively, several polls could be run one after the other, one poll for each of the 3 categories, but that may be overly cumbersome.

The downsides to this idea is I dunno how we'd deal with voters looking to commission multiple items, like splitting the Costs between a weapon and a second item. Furthermore, all this would require additional work on @BoneyM's part; if the QM's game, great, but I wouldn't wish to push if Boney's not interested.

Of course, the 'commission a runic item' action needs to be a winning vote for any of this to be relevant, but using a poll may be an interesting way to generate the item.


I'd also be a fan of leaving the poll results hidden for extra Ranaldian flavor, but that might drive people up a wall.


Edit: The more I think on it, the less certain I am of how worthwhile a poll vs. normal voting could be. I still really like the idea of a hidden tally though, so maybe it'd be worth doing for the novelty alone.
 
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Stewart9 said:
Why In the world should we spend time learning to use an axe and then getting it runed when we have a great sword that we can have worked on by a gold wizard and then enchanted with our own wind. When are we going to use this great axe and how are we going to carry the thing when we all ready have a great sword because you can't carry a great axe on your belt. Also a sword is the more agile weapon because all parts of the weapon are deadly in a way you do not see with axes and because the weight of a sword is balanced much closer to or right at the hands while most of the weight of an axe is at the head. You can turn and maneuver a sword in ways that you can't with an axe and that scale to fair degree that is one is why swords are used in fencing not axes
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Because it's a way to boost martial that has a lot of very, very skilled trainers all very willing to teach. Boosting martial and being familiar with the weaponry your allies are using is always a good thing when going to war.

The ability to actually use an axe if we need to is almost a secondary benefit compared to that.
 
My vote seems to have gone missing from the tally, so throwing it in again.

[X] Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[X] King Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Ask the smiths to teach him as a favour to you (-2 favours)
 
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[X] Marksman Codrin Petrescu
[X] Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[X] Now that you know (well, remember) a little more, a certain suspicion is growing. Pin him down and ask his intentions regarding Skaven technology.
 
[X] Marksman Codrin Petrescu
[X] Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[X] Now that you know (well, remember) a little more, a certain suspicion is growing. Pin him down and ask his intentions regarding Skaven technology.
 
Contributing to the Campaign:
[x] Rangers appreciate an anticlimactic victory. Enchant a spider-horn for them to commemorate it. (+rep)
[x] Have Ulthar handpick his best sharpshooters to be equipped with envenomed bolts.
[x] There's a fork ahead, with a bridge across the Skull River. Join the Grand Masters in riding ahead and guarding it, just in case.


Spend time with the Council of War:
[x] King Belegar Ironhammer
[x] Master Runelord Kragg the Grim (?)
[x] Thane Skaroki Grimbrow
[x] Master Engineer Durin Wutokri
[x] Grand Master Sigwald Kriegersen
[x] Grand Master Ruprecht Wulfhart
[x] Marksman Codrin Petrescu
[x] Marshal Titus Muggins

Panoramia of the Jade Order
[x] The Forest of Gloom is still accessible if you summon a horse for her. Guard her as she ventures back into the Forest of Gloom to hunt for useful ingredients.

Maximilian de Gaynesford of the Gold Order
[x] Introduce him to the dwarven smiths so he can try to convince them to teach him.

Johann of the Gold Order
[x] Now that you know (well, remember) a little more, a certain suspicion is growing. Pin him down and ask his intentions regarding Skaven technology.
 
I do get the sentimental reasons of wanting to stick to your metaphorical guns, but we also have to be realistic.

Training Axe (and hammer too) raises our martial, gains us further respect, and saves us one dwarf favor. Which might not seem that much when we have what we do, but there's also a lot of support for spend most of it.

Besides, our house sigil is a hideous thing.
 
Rafin said:
@BoneyM There seems to be quite a divide between what people want to spend, coupled with a mad scramble to think of a wide variety of cool items. May I propose that the vote regarding if we commission a magic item and what we commission and at what cost to be separate votes? Not just because I think a good decision could benefit from some extra time on our part, but also because all the people who don't want to spend favor on an item right now would probably still want to have an influence on what we get, should getting something be inevitable.
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The Barak Varr window will still be open in the coming week, so I'll have a yes/no binary vote.

Strange9 said:
Apologies if this is very obvious (I've never been involved in the tabletop game), @BoneyM , but what effect does anti-magic have on warp-constructs like demons/verminlords?
I ask because I'm primarily concerned about a piece of enchanted equipment giving us options against the sort of big, scary threats that we might see on this kind of campaign.
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Antimagic can prevent their summoning but once they're summoned they need killing, though there are runes that can help with killing demons specifically.

TotallyNotEvil said:
What does it do? Just +1 magic? Resistance to miscast?

I thought we could perhaps show Kragg what we want when we say "help with doing magic" on an item.
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His is +1 magic and also contains a retractable sword-blade, but you don't exactly have it on hand to demonstrate.

PseudoLurker said:
@BoneyM Would a rune to reduce need for resting be possible? Something that would increase the number of actions available to us? Not sure if something like this exists.
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There are runes to remove the physiological need for sleep, but not the psychological effects of a lack of sleep.



Voting closed, writing has begun.
Adhoc vote count started by BoneyM on Apr 2, 2018 at 7:19 AM, finished with 14964 posts and 104 votes.
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Can we cast explosive type spells into small animals like birds and dive bomb the enemy with them? Or set up a spell so that it goes off if the target died? I ask the second one so that maybe some bright wizard can tie a nuke style spell into a slayer and say "off you go now."
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Besides, our house sigil is a hideous thing.
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Our house sigil is fine, you just have no sense of taste. Actually hideous is something more like the sigil of Duke René of Anjou, who at various points in his life held or held claims to the titles Count of Piedmont and of Provence, Duke of Bar and of Lorraine, King of Naples and of Jerusalem, and decided that a good coat of arms would involve squishing every last one of these onto his personal shield at once.

Duke René said:
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(I'm not even counting the late Habsburgs who packed in half of Europe on some of their coats, that's like shooting fish in a barrel.)
 
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Unrelated question: When it comes to the cultivation of the black lotus seeds, what is the Empire's level of botanical knowledge? I assume that our Jade is maintaining supply through growbeds in carts right now to keep things mobile, but would she also have access to some kind of greenhouse back at her college to really ramp things up? I mean, if there's someone who's going to have a constant supply of black lotus, the Jade College is probably one of the better picks.
 
Stewart9 said:
Also a sword is the more agile weapon because all parts of the weapon are deadly in a way you do not see with axes and because the weight of a sword is balanced much closer to or right at the hands while most of the weight of an axe is at the head. You can turn and maneuver a sword in ways that you can't with an axe and that scale to fair degree that is one is why swords are used in fencing not axes
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We've already been over this a lot. You are wrong about the differences in how swords and axes are used. Go read up on what the practicing expert has to say on the matter.
 
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