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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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TotallyNotEvil said:
Here's a reminder that Sylvania is so fucked up that the dead spontaneously rise up. And the battle wizards seem to be doing more than fine there, and those are the guys who work with the most volatile magic.
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Comparing Sylvania to the Chaos Wastes is a bit of an apples and oranges situation. The battle wizards have the advantages of experience, numbers, and mopping up after we killed both Castle Drakenhof and Alkharad.

As far as I can tell, Sylvania is being attacked with the intent of conquest and reclamation. Even as a tainted land, it's considered salvageable.

The Chaos Wastes... aren't salvageable(by us). It's literally the manifestation of the Realm of Chaos slowly corrupting the planet. The KD expedition is there to loot, and we're trading lives for treasure.
 
Here's a ridiculous idea. Asarnil and Deathfang might be busy in Kislev still, but so what? We've got a genuine emperor ice dragon right here.

Let's go chat him up and see how he feel about outrageous pay for messing up some chaos chumps day.

Now sure, he appears to be interested in little more then sleeping his days a way on a hoard of gold, but maybe, just maybe... he might have an appreciation for the finer things he can't get in his long lost mountain hold.

Perhaps... books? (I don't know what else a dragon would want really.)
 
@BoneyM, in next social turn, can we can an option to see impact of Rooms of Calamity have on Colleges?

I am asking due to issue of perspective. In this turn the AV deal was written in extremely matter a fact way. There are no real emotions in it - it was like Mathilde was buying a horse or a riffle. Something mundame. While I know how important it was, I do not feel the importance when reading a chapter. From reader point of view it makes it extremely easy to lose track of real magnitude of waves Mathilde creates.

In reality? The deal was not ordinary. Just from purely system point of view it netted fourty points of college reputation in one go. Just a comparison - the same amount Mathilde got by leading armies of K8P to stunning victory and being one of key factors for fully retaking K8P. This is BIG.

The cooperation with Thorek? It's very easy to see him as merely 'second best' - while in reality Thorek is a Big Deal. An exteemed, revered, second most venerable runelord in whole Karaz Ankor! His apprentices are not mere beardlings - they are masters in their own right. The work they did in colleges? There is no comparison with what colleges had before.

I'm not certain that average Magister ever seen a single dwarven rune!

I get that Mathilde is unreliable narrator, and her worldview and situation makes her miss things - but it would be nice to have a change to see those things from more balanced perspective.
 
Alliterate said:
Not in the RPG. There, Lord Magister level Aethyric Armour (4 points of damage negation), lands slightly short of layered full plate (leather+chainmail+plate at 5).
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The scale we get for Magic -> Armor save follows the X+ format of the TT tho.

If Boney gives us the TT scale, I'm using it. While we have a TT statline, we don't have an RPG one.
 
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chocolote12 said:
The anti-chaos class is restricted specifically because it teaches you what to actually do to get their attention ('do this or else that will happen' means you know how to do both this and that).
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In Exalted it's possible to beckon minor demons into the world by acts that resonate with their nature; a fluff example was spilling at least two out of (blood, semen, alcohol) on a tangled skein of yarn to get a fleshcrafter.
An in-universe teaching/superstition that grew up to avoid this was "no drunkenness near a spinning wheel or loom". OOC, one can see that this way drunken fights that might spatter blood+alcohol stay away from places you're likely to find yarn. IC, it doesn't tell a hypothetical demonologist much about what positive action to take. Sit between a spinning wheel and a loom and chug a bottle - no demon.

I imagine the Grey College anti-chaos class is likely more specific than this, but I wouldn't rule out broad cut-offs of that nature too. We'll see.
 
ReImagined said:
Comparing Sylvania to the Chaos Wastes is a bit of an apples and oranges situation. The battle wizards have the advantages of experience, numbers, and mopping up after we killed both Castle Drakenhof and Alkharad.

As far as I can tell, Sylvania is being attacked with the intent of conquest and reclamation. Even as a tainted land, it's considered salvageable.

The Chaos Wastes... aren't salvageable(by us). It's literally the manifestation of the Realm of Chaos slowly corrupting the planet. The KD expedition is there to loot, and we're trading lives for treasure.
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Idealy we are also trading lives for lives if there are survivors and we also need to ensure the tombs are secured.
 
ReImagined said:
Comparing Sylvania to the Chaos Wastes is a bit of an apples and oranges situation. The battle wizards have the advantages of experience, numbers, and mopping up after we killed both Castle Drakenhof and Alkharad.

As far as I can tell, Sylvania is being attacked with the intent of conquest and reclamation. Even as a tainted land, it's considered salvageable.

The Chaos Wastes... aren't salvageable(by us). It's literally the manifestation of the Realm of Chaos slowly corrupting the planet. The KD expedition is there to loot, and we're trading lives for treasure.
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The Chaos Wastes is a quick trip. The comparison is in the levels of ambient Badness around and to what degree being a wizard there is good.

We aren't there to salvage the Chaos Wastes, and no one intends to try. Does a land where the dead spontaneously raise from their graves and wizards get constant whispers to reach just a bit further not sound comparable to you?
 
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Rotekian said:
Sounds propa orky to me. In fact, I vaguely recall a model that had a giant hand on a staff.
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TotallyNotEvil said:
On one hand, it's silly. On the other, it's possibly very much the Warhammer Fantasy kind of silly. Depends on how Boney sees it.
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I can't deny that it's no more silly or cartoony than some other Warhammer stuff. That doesn't mean I like it. I just don't think it fits Mathilde's style (in general and of sillyness), but I admit that's just my headcanon. But frankly, a bone staff with a hand on top is the sort of thing I expect from a petty necromancer (like the one in Drakenhof), not the Jane Band of Grey Wizards.
 
Parzival95 said:
Let's go chat him up and see how he feel about outrageous pay for messing up some chaos chumps day.
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Honestly, I've been having a similar thought about asking him to take out the nearby Karak for us.

It's close by so it's not a far trip for it, the dragon has shown the ability to fit into the tunnels so he can get in through the underground, and it'll increase our wealth to make it easier to pay him.

I've also been thinking of combing it with a tower of "turn enemy units into gold permanently" which is a thing. If we allowed to do that then economics are about to become real silly.

I feel like odd's of getting the Dragon to solve our problems are decent if we have the power of "I've got 100 Gold Orc statues for you if you eat Karak Drazh for breakfast."
 
[x] Plan Keep It Classy

If we just want to be able to combine the Staff and Branulhune into a sword-staff, we don't need to do something as silly as sticking a literal Ulgu hand on the staff, if that's not how Boney wants to play things. Theoretically, we could use the Rune of the Unknown and a seamless mount for the sword at the end of the staff to directly teleport Branulhune securely to the staff's end when we wanted to use it in lance form. As in, we would have a spot where we could stick our hand(s) near the tip of the staff such that summoning Branulhune placed it inside of the housing in question.

Might still be too impractical or silly to work, but there are non-spooky-hand options for the Branulhune lance idea.
 
King Arthur said:
Honestly, I've been having a similar thought about asking him to take out the nearby Karak for us.

It's close by so it's not a far trip for it, the dragon has shown the ability to fit into the tunnels so he can get in through the underground, and it'll increase our wealth to make it easier to pay him.

I've also been thinking of combing it with a tower of "turn enemy units into gold permanently" which is a thing. If we allowed to do that then economics are about to become real silly.

I feel like odd's of getting the Dragon to solve our problems are decent if we have the power of "I've got 100 Gold Orc statues for you if you eat Karak Drazh for breakfast."
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Chamon cannot transmute things permanently, or at least, not with the current skill and understanding the Empire has. So if you try that, all you'll do is end up enraging the dragon.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Chamon cannot transmute things permanently, or at least, not with the current skill and understanding the Empire has. So if you try that, all you'll do is end up enraging the dragon.
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The specification of "golden orc statues" suggests this spell:
BoneyM said:
Final Transmutation (15 favors): You try to transmute target squad into golden statues. This magic only have a 1-in-3 chance of working on most enemies and 1-in-6 on particularly resilient foes, but if it works nothing can save them. Seeing such riches other nearby enemies may succumb to temptation of looting instead of fighting for a short while.
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BurnNote said:
I don't like the "hand on staff" idea. That just seems like such a cartoony thing.
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depends on how tastefully it's done I imagine.

but looking online the closest thing I can find are skeleton hands or 'dragon claws' that are gripping orbs. and they look kind of naff. so hard no.

honestly, I like this style more for the dragon staff.


and something simple and practical for the basic staff.
 
That reminds me: on the gas mask project, while we might end up with just better filters and this mistery sealant on the engineering side, why couldn't a gold wizard magic up leather or perhaps some very malleable metal to be akin to rubber?

Doesn't need to transmute one thing into another, just finagle its properties.
 
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Vebyast said:
The specification of "golden orc statues" suggests this spell:
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Yes, but Final Transmutation, isn't, to my knowledge, permanent.

DragonParadox said:
It's quite possible it can't do it even at the Asurs' level of understanding, otherwise they would not have a monetary system based on precious metals.
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A distinct possibility, but I have zero knowledge of the Asur's economic situation beyond "all the money because trade".

agumentic said:
Huh, did it? I remember Ironbreakers having 3+. Which makes sense to me, since Gromril is supposed to be much better than steel.
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Ironbreakers carry shields.
 
agumentic said:
Huh, did it? I remember Ironbreakers having 3+. Which makes sense to me, since Gromril is supposed to be much better than steel.
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Oh I absolutely agree, it's kind of nonsensical lore-wise, but I suspect it's simply a mechanical balance matter. 3+ is pretty good on TT, too good for the dwarfs to have it "cheaply".

It seems reasonable that Master Rune of Gromril > Runed Gromril ~ Elder Dragon scales ~ best magical plate > Gromril ~ Dragon scales > dwarf plate > heavy mail > light armor.

There are other ways to raise your Armor saves, I use the Dragon scale comparison because it gives the same save by itself as what we would be getting.

Full Plate + Shield + Horse + Barding = 1+ save IIRC, but that's not the same as having a suit with the Master Rune of Gromril, IC. At least I don't believe it'd be.
 
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I personally don't think bringing a dragon or dragon and elve to K Dum is a good idea.

part of what makes this trip even possible is 'we would have to get unluckily for the really bad stuff to notice us before we are in and out with the loot.'

a dragon is one big 'come at me bro' to every knornaite, cultist to demon.
 
[x] Plan Keep It Classy


I really don't think we need to be too concerned about action economy in regards to obligations at this point; better to take a long term view and dig some solid foundations.

King Arthur said:
Honestly, I've been having a similar thought about asking him to take out the nearby Karak for us.

It's close by so it's not a far trip for it, the dragon has shown the ability to fit into the tunnels so he can get in through the underground, and it'll increase our wealth to make it easier to pay him.
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We haven't even gotten to know the dragon properly yet, so it would be quite improper to ask for aid in offensive actions.

Let's wine and dine the dragon first and see what comes after.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Oh I absolutely agree, it's kind of nonsensical lore-wise, but I suspect it's simply a mechanical balance matter. 3+ is pretty good on TT, too good for the dwarfs to have it "cheaply".

It seems reasonable that Master Rune of Gromril > Runed Gromril ~ Elder Dragon scales ~ best magical plate > Gromril ~ Dragon scales > dwarf plate > heavy mail > light armor.

There are other ways to raise your Armor saves, I use the Dragon scale comparison because it gives the same save by itself as what we would be getting.

Full Plate + Shield + Horse + Barding = 1+ save IIRC, but that's not the same as having a suit with the Master Rune of Gromril, IC. At least I don't believe it'd be.
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My understanding was always that when the Dwarf armour book spoke of Gromril armour, it was heavy armour made out of gromril, rather than full plate. Less armour for more effect, essentially.

I believe all Dragons have a 3+ save minimum on the tabletop, although I could be wrong.

I think it would have a similar effect, unless the horse was killed out from under you. It's easier to find a gap in a suit of gromril if it's at shoulder height than if it's four feet above you on a horse after all.
 
agumentic said:
Huh, did it? I remember Ironbreakers having 3+. Which makes sense to me, since Gromril is supposed to be much better than steel.
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The Hardness of your material irrelevant at some point becomes compared to the softness of the underlying squishy. And any non-magical armor will have to have some openings for movement and sight. A dragon meanwhile is covered in armor, so there's less openings (though probably not that much less than on really good plate), and it can be much thicker than on a human sized target. Gromril foil would loose out to a meter thick layer of tin, even though gromril is much tougher.

And all that is before you get into funky magic biology.
 
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