Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[DarkLight140]

We really need to start brainstorming where we can get trustworthy subordinates from.

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We have started. A short list:

• Other members of the Grey College should become available once we hit Magister (so, far in the future)
• Use our existing allies (ex., Markus, Anton, Van Hal) to recommend/assign people to us
• Identify talent within our existing networks (at the moment, the thieves' guild and the village of Biderhof)
• Approach people we know of that we believe likely prospects (ex., Commander of Swartzhafen)
• Openly advertise for people of talent interested in working for the Count (probably picks up bounty hunters and such... or enemy agents trying to infiltrate)

Now, none of these methods are perfect- all of them have one or more issues. They take too long, our resulting subordinates don't have enough skill, they might have motivations contrary to ours, we can't guarantee their background, whatever. But no recruitment method is going to be perfect. At some point we have to decide what's good enough and move forward.

Aside from that, there's the matter of choosing the right subordinate for the right job. Someone recommended to our service by Markus could probably be relied upon to coordinate a network made of up town watchmen, innkeepers, and guildsmen, for example... but might not work so well with thieves. A priest of Ranald recruited out of our thieves' guild could probably do a fantastic job administering a network of thieves, merchants, and peasants... as long as we kept on eye on them to make sure that they didn't go all revolutionary on us. I would want to thoroughly vet anyone Anton recommends but if he does turn up anyone we find trustworthy they could probably serve as an exceptionally useful analyst, given our peasant background, and do a solid job of talking to nobles on our behalf or otherwise serving as a quiet representative of the Count when we need one but don't have the time or ability to do so ourselves.

We have no lack of options at all. Getting subordinates isn't a matter of figuring out where to get them so much as putting in the action slots to actually do it and then ensuring that they're loyal and trained.

 

[veekie]

Using criminals with fairly-heavy anti-authority stance, who are priests of the God of Revolutions, as the main informational hub for an Elector-Count strikes me a bad idea. They are useful against some of the threats (proscribed cults and vampires), but they are not terribly useful for criminal activity (chances are, they are in on it), nobility (they dislike them), the populace (chances are they would take their side instead of the Elector).

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Its not that bad though? To Ranald, revolution are a MEANS, not an END. The Protector aspect shows up when people are substantially oppressed...and a Ranald network is basically going to be gleefully passing us information on particularly mean nobles and the like.

I do not advocate making them our only route, but the way I see it we have the following channels:
-Thieves & Criminals - Putting them under the Ranald priests is overall...an improvement. They follow him regardless and he stops the worse crimes. Ranaldites will be religiously required to deal with murderers, rapists, poisoners and the like, which means that they'd be happy to tell us. Smugglers they'd let us know

-Farmers & Woodsmen - Theres little reason to put them with the criminal networks. That goes bad places. We should befriend someone in the villages to administrate that network locally borrow a clerk maybe to manage the messages they send in.

-Burghers - Going through the Ranaldites is convenient. They run the gambling dens and they camp the taverns just fine, while our boss isn't the type to cause difficulties here fortunately.

-Watch & State employees - We can get a contact from the Greatswords for managing this side.

-Merchants & Traders - We get Anton to know a guy who knows some guys.

-Noble households - We actually WANT Ranaldites here. Because the servants get everywhere and hear everything. And the Ranaldites have a vested interest in passing all the juicy gossip along.


So basically we can use them to network the thieves guild together, and they're good for urban information gathering. Our boss isn't the type to oppress needlessly.

Making them our primary intel nexus would be dumb, but no one subordinate should ever be allowed to see our whole network to begin with. But their loyalty is reasonable enough as long as we make sure the stuff they manage has no conflict of interest. I'd say any contact should manage one major network, or up to three minor nodes. With a counter network to watch them in turn.

 

[Seventeen]

The main problem with recruiting Wolf and the guy with the less memorable name as our subordinates is that they're already the leadership of their organisation. We don't want that conflict of interest.

 

[Atam the Ork]

I would say setting up a thieves guild would not be a bad idea since it gives a good information network, makes it hard for chaos and vampire cults to form, and lowers violent crime overall

Plus I like to imagine Mathilde as a mob boss

 

[Seventeen]

I would say setting up a thieves guild would not be a bad idea since it gives a good information network, lowers crime, makes it hare for chaos and vampire cults to form, and lowers violent crime overall

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There's already a thieves' guild. That's the guys we've gained as informants. I'm not sure how you think it would lower crime or reduce cult formation, either. Seems like it would increase both, what with being a group of criminals and a borderline proscribed cult already. At best you could say it reduces violent crime because Ranald frowns upon that, but I imagine the people most likely to commit violent crimes don't care all that much what Ranald or his priesthood think.

 

[Boney]

The existing 'Thieves Guild' in Wurtbad is an almost entirely religious organization dedicated to maintaining the shrines, spreading gossip and keeping people informed where the priests can be found, with little secular coordination or networking.

I imagine the people most likely to commit violent crimes don't care all that much what Ranald or his priesthood think.

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In cities where Ranald is dominant, violent criminals get shunned by the criminal underworld, and without support are more likely to end up caught or killed. In cities where Ranald isn't dominant, violent criminals tend to stray towards Khaine.

A related note on Ranaldians:
Because the cult has such extensive ties with the seedier parts of the Empire, they are often the first to encounter blasphemous rites, renegades, and Chaos cultists who strive to stay clear of the light of justice. Most take the law into their own hands when they uncover these pockets of corruption, quietly killing those they find and sending clues to law enforcement so that they may take care of the rest.

Nobody wants the Witch Hunters arriving en masse in their city, least of all the criminal underworld.

 

[Atam the Ork]

There's already a thieves' guild. That's the guys we've gained as informants. I'm not sure how you think it would lower crime or reduce cult formation, either. Seems like it would increase both, what with being a group of criminals and a borderline proscribed cult already. At best you could say it reduces violent crime because Ranald frowns upon that, but I imagine the people most likely to commit violent crimes don't care all that much what Ranald or his priesthood think.

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Because chaos cults and vampire cults are bad for everyone and the people in the best position to find and expose them are the thieves guild since chaos cults and vampire cults have to hide usually in the criminal world and the people who most likely would know where to find and locate these hidden locations the cults use would be the thieves

And since they would report to us we can tell Van Hal and he can send troops to root out and destroy these cults

Also since the would be worshiping Ranald they would be obligated to kill murders or at least expose them to authorities or risk the ire of Ranald

 

[Sinsystems]

Personally I think doing the Thieves Guild action would be overall positive for our work if we do it right, however the biggest hurdle will be convincing Van Hal to go along with it.

 

[Exmorri]

Overwatching the innkeepers to see where people start drinking large amounts of money is a good idea, and since it'll need a subordinate, I figure a good way to get candidates to watch that is ask our friendly Steward, Wilhelmina Hochschild! Finance overwatch is her department, she should be able to recommend people with appropriate skills, and she's presumably trustworthy since she has a long history with Abelhelm. Of course we'll have to do some vetting of the candidates ourselves, too, but the Steward seems like a great starting point.

With either enough spells learned, or other magical skills practised, or some other suitably impoved grasp of magic, your Journeyman Wizard stat will upgrade into... let's go with 'Really Good Journeyman Wizard' for now, which will come with a Learning boost. Improved Enchanter traits would also come with a Learning boost, as would a suitably well-stocked laboratory or library or similar in your Palace-Shrine. And there's always just random chance - rolling crits while doing magical or research stuff can lead to improved Learning.

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Or perhaps spending actions training the Learning attribute itself, rather than spells?

 

[Boney]

Well, yes, that too.

 

[veekie]

Basically the strategy here is we ignore the scammers, SOME of the smugglers(we basically give the ones who'd report what they smuggle to us so we can catch things like evil relics, slaves and large amounts of weapons an advantage so they can smuggle tax free alcohol), and petty thieves so they are the ears on the ground.

Which means that when a cult or necromancer starts up?
In a normal city, the thieves find out, and then they either run away, or try to fight it and sometimes get sacrificed. They can't report it, since they get fucked equally.
In a city where they report to the spymaster, when a cult gets detected they pass the word up the chain, they clear out of the blast zone and then suddenly a Witch Hunter with a Runefang, A Wizard and a Priest comes in for some Smite.

 

[Atam the Ork]

Personally I think doing the Thieves Guild action would be overall positive for our work if we do it right, however the biggest hurdle will be convincing Van Hal to go along with it.

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Lets see Van Hal is a Witch Hunter so he loves to stomp out chaos, vampires, and khaine worshipers

Thieves guild pros

1. Stops and exposes chaos, vampire, and khaine cults from forming or growing in strength making the city safer
2. It stops most violent criminals who could also be cultists or vampire thralls
3. They provide us with a big spy network to keep our city safe from infiltration from outside forces
4. Makes Mathilde a mob boss aka the Godfather/Godmother

Thieves guild cons

1. Slightly more theft
2. Witch Hunters usually don't like Ranald worshippers

 

[mrttao]

We have started. A short list:

• Other members of the Grey College should become available once we hit Magister (so, far in the future)
• Use our existing allies (ex., Markus, Anton, Van Hal) to recommend/assign people to us
• Identify talent within our existing networks (at the moment, the thieves' guild and the village of Biderhof)
• Approach people we know of that we believe likely prospects (ex., Commander of Swartzhafen)
• Openly advertise for people of talent interested in working for the Count (probably picks up bounty hunters and such... or enemy agents trying to infiltrate)

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Why not go to the village that adopted us, find a suitable kid, and take them in for training?
... then again, it is a bit too close to apprenticeship and we are gonna do that when we become magister. so that is a problem.

Using criminals with fairly-heavy anti-authority stance, who are priests of the God of Revolutions, as the main informational hub for an Elector-Count strikes me a bad idea. They are useful against some of the threats (proscribed cults and vampires), but they are not terribly useful for criminal activity (chances are, they are in on it), nobility (they dislike them), the populace (chances are they would take their side instead of the Elector).

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I thought proscribed cults are cults that have been made legal

 

[Boney]

Proscribed is illegal. Prescribed is mandatory.

English is fun like that.

 

[Ian Drash]

Lets see Van Hal is a Witch Hunter so he loves to stomp out chaos, vampires, and khaine worshipers

Thieves guild pros

1. Stops and exposes chaos, vampire, and khaine cults from forming or growing in strength making the city safer
2. It stops most violent criminals who could also be cultists or vampire thralls
3. They provide us with a big spy network to keep our city safe from infiltration from outside forces
4. Makes Mathilde a mob boss aka the Godfather/Godmother

Thieves guild cons

1. Slightly more theft
2. Witch Hunters usually don't like Ranald worshippers

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Further Thieves Guild cons:
- The rich classes of society grumble
- Sanctioned thieves means overlooking criminal activity
- Increased smuggling means less trade
- Potential PR disaster

Ultimately this decision is very much up to the Elector Count, because if he finds out that we operate a Thieves Guild behind his back, chances are he will be deeply unhappy.

 

[veekie]

Further Thieves Guild cons:
- The rich classes of society grumble
- Sanctioned thieves means overlooking criminal activity
- Increased smuggling means less trade
- Potential PR disaster

Ultimately this decision is very much up to the Elector Count, because if he finds out that we operate a Thieves Guild behind his back, chances are he will be deeply unhappy.

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Middle class grumbles more. The upper classes don't take relatively as much difficulties.
But thats why we're going to him with a private report about taking over part of the underworld for intel purposes. See what he thinks.

...funny thought, if we were running the Thieves guild we'd be taking a tithe of their earnings, which our vows require that we put into our national pot. Which means we'd be taxing smuggling at a lower, but non zero rate...

 

[DocMatoi]

...funny thought, if we were running the Thieves guild we'd be taking a tithe of their earnings, which our vows require that we put into our national pot. Which means we'd be taxing smuggling at a lower, but non zero rate...

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oh wow, love to see Van Hal's face when that comes to light.

 

[REAPER35]

Van Hal is a witch hunter. He may not have much love for the underworld, but I'm betting he used to have his own contacts in the seedier parts of wherever he was posted. Khaine, Chaos, Scavens, and the Undead are bad for everyone, but the underworld will notice first and are the most likely to find them. A thieves guild could also help with the League problem. Plausible Deniability.

...funny thought, if we were running the Thieves guild we'd be taking a tithe of their earnings, which our vows require that we put into our national pot. Which means we'd be taxing smuggling at a lower, but non zero rate...

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This is an automatic black ops fund. It never goes into the treasury. Need an assassin hired. We didn't do it. All OUR gold is accounted for, just look at the books. Need mercenaries/bandits to harass League assets? Don't know what you are talking about, audit our books. again Plausible Deniability.

 

[Sinsystems]

oh wow, love to see Van Hal's face when that comes to light.

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Reminds me of a joke from a webcomic I read, where a character runs the local thieves guild is looking over the finances due to times being tough and an exchange roughly like this happens

Guild Master: "Hmm, okay expenses seem fine...wait what's this large sum here?"

Accountant Minion: "Oh that's the amount I'm embezzling."

Guild Master: "That little?"

Accountant Minion: "We all have to make sacrifices in these hard times."

And now I'm imagining us giving Van Hal a budget report with the amount we are embezzling clearly labeled including where it is going.

 

[Ian Drash]

Middle class grumbles more. The upper classes don't take relatively as much difficulties.
But thats why we're going to him with a private report about taking over part of the underworld for intel purposes. See what he thinks.

...funny thought, if we were running the Thieves guild we'd be taking a tithe of their earnings, which our vows require that we put into our national pot. Which means we'd be taxing smuggling at a lower, but non zero rate...

Click to shrink...

The thing is, there would be more smuggling if it is safe (and if it is sanctioned by the government it is safe). Which means a net loss for the treasury.

Van Hal is a witch hunter. He may not have much love for the underworld, but I'm betting he used to have his own contacts in the seedier parts of wherever he was posted. Khaine, Chaos, Scavens, and the Undead are bad for everyone, but the underworld will notice first and are the most likely to find them. A thieves guild could also help with the League problem. Plausible Deniability.



This is an automatic black ops fund. It never goes into the treasury. Need an assassin hired. We didn't do it. All OUR gold is accounted for, just look at the books. Need mercenaries/bandits to harass League assets? Don't know what you are talking about, audit our books. again Plausible Deniability.

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Plausible deniability to who? Are we lying constantly to out boss? That seems like a spectacularly bad idea. Does the Elector needs deniability? Why would he? The Elector-Count is a nearly soverign entity on his own right. In practicality, he doesn't answer to anybody about his treasury, his taxes or his expenses. Plausible deniability is important when he deals with either outside actors or politically sensitive subjects in the province, and in that case "plausible deniability" means "nobody managed to catch and interrogate the people who did it". Nobody has the right to ask an Elector to show them the books, and nobody would actually write down expenses like "assasination". Plausible deniability would be achieved, if there was a singular point of contact with the Thieves Guild, so only the leader of the organization would know who they are really working for. In that case, however we would have limited control over the actual actions of the criminal organization.

 

[DocMatoi]

Reminds me of a joke from a webcomic I read, where a character runs the local thieves guild is looking over the finances due to times being tough and an exchange roughly like this happens

Guild Master: "Hmm, okay expenses seem fine...wait what's this large sum here?"

Accountant Minion: "Oh that's the amount I'm embezzling."

Guild Master: "That little?"

Accountant Minion: "We all have to make sacrifices in these hard times."

And now I'm imagining us giving Van Hal a budget report with the amount we are embezzling clearly labeled including where it is going.

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Honestly, I'm down for doing that, no joke. He knows people are skimming, letting him know what we're doing with our skimmed funds would probably make him trust us even more than he already does

 

[mrttao]

The real amusing thing is, I am pretty sure us taking over the thieves guild and expanding it will be significantly less harmful then the trade league.
Both in terms of violence committed, and in terms of money lost to the state.

Incidentally, if we do coach it like that we will probably end up dismantling the league. which I am fine with. repeal and replace! no more league, now we have the renaldian thieves guild... with us at its head

 

[Exmorri]

I like all of your ideas. definitely got do them all.

... which is really going to cut into our magic learning time.

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I've turned it into an outline for the coming turn. Anyone is welcome to alter this into actual plan then, as I probably won't be around at the time with the rate this quest moves.

[o] Pre-Emptively Don't Get Distracted By The Shiny
Because God knows there's a lot of shiny that keeps popping up. Plan around it. Councilors normally spend 2-4 actions per turn on their job, so I'm thinking we should at least put 2 towards whatever the Count orders us to do specifically, and a third towards something generally helpful in our spymaster position - expanding our network more will be good in the long term. And in our present circumstances, the boss wants us to investigate the new marshals and that seems like a fine thing to put as fourth since we could use that knowledge too. Boss happy, we get info. And then the magical weapons that might be a stepping stone towards more enchantment, and reading up on vampires which we would totally have done earlier if we hadn't been alternately putting out fires and praising Ranald.
[o] Do our job.
[o] Do our job.
[o] Expand spy network further. (Castle staff? Innkeepers? Thieves? More cities?)
[o] Investigate the new candidates for Marshal.
[o] Examine the magical weapons from the barrow.
[o] Study Undead Lore.
Something shiny and/or urgent will probably come up and displace one of these. Like the Wisdom's Asp finally striking. Or new Sleeper Agent orders. Or the opportunity to make connections with the Halfling Mafia. First thing I'd drop would likely be the weapons (they've waited a thousand years already) or the Marshal (which the Count said to do if we find the time, which means we could skip it unless we look busy elsewhere).
[o] Free action: Ask the greatswords if they can beat any useful information out of the castle gribblies. Said gribblies are probably not important enough to merit personal attention.
[o] Free action: Think of something clever to spend some of our 230 gold discretionary budget on.
[o] Free action: Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced, Again.

 

[Atam the Ork]

Like I said a Mathilde as the Godfather of the criminal underworld is both awesome and hilarious

 

[Miffychan]

Can we please fit an action in where we have Embezzled Funds as an itemized part of our budget. Honest to Sigmar, that might actually make Van Hal crack a smile.

Also Godmother Mathilde yes.