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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Garlak said:
Thinking about it, aside from the Horned Rat... this could be Only Gork or the Bad Moon. That talk of a "scar" made me think of Only Gork, where we dealt him a blow here. However, since he might not exist at all since the ritual was interrupted... who knows. As for the Bad Moon, that's because of all the Goblins that got killed here. If any of them worshipped the Bad Moon instead of Gork and Mork, then, well... yeah.

Or, hell, it could be Grimnir for all we know. And so "an old scar" would refer to the way the fall of Karak Eight Peaks was a scar upon the Dwarf realm and psyche. But while I can see "brooding and angry" fitting, I'm not sure that "indecisive" would. Nor the talk about fractions of attention.

But it's... probably the Horned Rat, yeah. Of all the Gods that would have cause to be here, or to have had been here, and which have been brought up and touched on in the narrative so far... he's one of 'em. (Like, Bad Moon might have a place if you assume the Goblins -- or the Snotlings! -- were Bad Moon worshippers. But, the Bad Moon has literally never come up in quest at all. Just no narrative weight or focus at all. So.)
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I am leaning towards the Horned rat because while it talks of it's attention like an old wound it doesn't actually go as far as to describe K8P as an old wound. There are still skaven here so it makes sense that the Horned Rat would have attention here. I am just not sure what other gods have a stake in the fight here.

I don't think it's the bad moon. I think the Bad Moon is Age of Sigmar and not Warhammer Fantasy. I could be wrong though.
 
vsh said:
That's not true in WHFB and even if it was, focusing on how that might mean it's okay to WMD them is against Rule 2.
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I am not sure if it really counts as a WMD actually: It is incredibly selective from what I could tell and WMD's are (From what I understand) defined by their indiscriminate nature.

We looked at each target up close by magic so it was as if we where standing right in front of him, and confirmed that "Yes, this orc/goblin/snotling needs to die" and then only they died. If a halfling was somehow hiding there in the middle of the orks, he would be completely fine even as the fires raged around him,

Guns and bows are less selective and less clean than this. though it still killed a lot... Though I suppose it would need to depend on WMD definition really is...
 
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Keep in mind that there is a surprising number of ways to do WMD style effects in Warhammer, I mean need I remind you of the ritual the Beastmen tried in the Shamanslayer novel that if successful would have turned every human in the forests of the Empire (so like everyone outside of the major cities) into Beastmen.
 
You know, it's entirely possile that with the damage the Waaagh field just took, all the remaining greenskins will come back up out of the tunnels to see what happened. If they do it in big enough groups, Wolf might get a decent shot at wiping most of the rest out.
 
Angelazreal1 said:
Somebody should make a FAQ for the Eye.
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Faq for the Eye you say? I can try:

Q0: What is it?
A0: It is a superweapon that when activated kills all eligible targets in the shadow of Karag Nar by separating their souls from their bodies. Shadow can be moved due to complicated effect that locally changes sunlight's direction ("moving the sun").

Q1: When it can be used?
A1: Whenever Belegar wants to, since It has add-ons for night firing, for clearing the weather and for moving the sun.

Q2: Which areas does the Eye cover?
A2: Caldera (except easternmost part, protected by the lip of the Caldera), Eastern Valley, Eastern approach (part of the Death Pass closest to K8P)

Q3: How fast/how often it can fire?
A3: Each operation (weather clearing, activating Red tower or moving the sun, firing) takes 10 seconds, so from 10 to 30 seconds.

Q4: Who can fire it?
A4: Theoretically, anyone authorized to do so (in latter answers referred as "mundane operator"). Practically, there are differences between Mathilde firing it and nonmagical people doing it (explained in latter answers)

Q5: Who can be the target?
A5: When mundane operator fires it they can only target races for which Eye has targeting crystals, and only one at a time (no frying Skaven and Orcs together). When Mathilde fires it she can burn anyone (as with normal Burning Shadows), but only if Gazul approves.

Q6: How much juice does it have?
A6: Mundane operator can use it for 2 hours each day (using Ulgu capacitors). Mathilde can fire it 24/7, the limit is her own exhaustion.

Q7: Can it be counterspelled? What are the consequences?
A7: It can. When mundane operator fires it, it is easier to counter, but neither the Eye nor the operator suffer any consequences from it (like using enchanted object). If Mathilde fires it, then any attempt to counter is a contest against her with all applicable traits (like Waaghbane), but with a bad roll Mathilde can eat a miscast.

Q8: Can our allies protect us from that?
A8: Yes, allied wizards and runesmiths can interfere with enemies' attempts to counter the Eye, but such interference cannot induce miscasts in enemy spellcasters since they weren't casting anything in the first place.

Q9: Can we use the sun-moving part for something else?
A9: In general, no. Sun only moves locally and for a short time, so no remaking K8P into a tropical paradise.


@BoneyM, did I get anything wrong? @thread, what else should be added?
 
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Some Dwarf Longbeards are just sitting confused in Eight Peaks right now, thinking 'Wait, something actually went well for us for once? That's not how this works,' having fully expected the Manling Tower to explode and everyone to die horribly to the million greenskins that just went up in smoke.

I especially wonder how Grombrindal is finding this, considering he was apparently just walking around giving encouragement the moment it happened.
 
Garlak said:
Thinking about it, aside from the Horned Rat... this could be Only Gork or the Bad Moon. That talk of a "scar" made me think of Only Gork, where we dealt him a blow here. However, since he might not exist at all since the ritual was interrupted... who knows. As for the Bad Moon, that's because of all the Goblins that got killed here. If any of them worshipped the Bad Moon instead of Gork and Mork, then, well... yeah.

Or, hell, it could be Grimnir for all we know. And so "an old scar" would refer to the way the fall of Karak Eight Peaks was a scar upon the Dwarf realm and psyche. But while I can see "brooding and angry" fitting, I'm not sure that "indecisive" would. Nor the talk about fractions of attention.

But it's... probably the Horned Rat, yeah. Of all the Gods that would have cause to be here, or to have had been here, and which have been brought up and touched on in the narrative so far... he's one of 'em. (Like, Bad Moon might have a place if you assume the Goblins -- or the Snotlings! -- were Bad Moon worshippers. But, the Bad Moon has literally never come up in quest at all. Just no narrative weight or focus at all. So.)
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What is the Bad Moon? Morrslieb as a god?
 
vsh said:
That's not true in WHFB and even if it was, focusing on how that might mean it's okay to WMD them is against Rule 2.
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As an aside, we didn't use a WMD as neither magic, fire, nor magic fire constitutes as a WMD.
Civilian definition (as per law) also defines a WMD as causing human deaths.
It's a finicky thing, but Orks are by definition not human. This is not a slur towards Orks, nor a statement that they can't show human attributes, but the statement that by the fact that they are a fantasy fungoid species, they are not human.

(Edit: Turns out that it does, and specifies "Any destructive device, Bomb, Grenade, Rocket and Mine" with a specific yield. Which is why a flamethrower isn't a WMD, which is essentially what we used.)
 
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Anyways, as tense as that one was, I had to chuckle a bit at one of the unrolled outcomes:
6. Orcs speak in hushed whispers of the vengeance from the skies for that bird the Boss ate.
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Now it's definitely possible and maybe even likely that the bird in question was some sort of extra impressive giant eagle or something along those lines, but I am infinitely more entertained by the idea that Birdmuncha just got his name by eating a normal bird that one time.
Orcs focus on the weirdest things.


All of that aside, my own kitchentable math tells me that there being more orcs than snottlings among the incinerated suggests enough orcs that Mathilde got the impression "It's more likely that the next face I see is an orc rather than a snotling".
Rather grim imagery, but I think it's reasonable to assume that means the orc number is closer to 300k than 250k for that to be perceptible.
Account for 80k orcs scattered in the badlands and I'm thinking we're at the very most looking at around 20k in the tunnels and maybe as many still trying to get in and probably turning around now.

Snotling numbers are a bit less promising though, since assuming proportional losses before entering the K8Ps theatre, we're looking at ~640k snotlings to accompany the ~320k orcs that made it this far.
Loads of snotlings still being outside of the Caldera matches with most of those lagging behind being the shortlimbed greenskins, so we just add snotlings to the ~20k orcs outside until we hit the 20% that didn't enter the Caldera before firing.
This accounts for ~170k snotlings and odds are they can't meaningfully affect K8Ps right now.
The same logic as before only acounts for only around 220k snotlings incinerated though, so we might in fact be left with up to 250k snotlings digging tunnels in the Caldera.

That's gonna take a lot of time to clean up, even if we can at least hope that a lot of them were trampled, bombed or gotten by goblins after entering the K8Ps theatre.
I suppose the snotling clean-up isn't as daunting as tunnel fighting with goblins would be and maybe the dwarves can collapse a lot of the tunnels on them.
 
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LockedMind said:
Faq for the Eye you say? I can try:

Q0: What is it?
A0: It is a superweapon that when activated kills all eligible targets in the shadow of Karag Nar by separating their souls from their bodies. Shadow can be moved due to complicated effect that locally changes sunlight's direction ("moving the sun").

Q1: When it can be used?
A1: Whenever Belegar wants to, since It has add-ons for night firing, for clearing the weather and for moving the sun.

Q2: Which areas does the Eye cover?
A2: Caldera (except easternmost part, protected by the lip of the Caldera), Eastern Valley, Eastern approach (part of the Death Pass closest to K8P)

Q3: How fast/how often it can fire?
A3: Each operation (weather clearing, activating Red tower or moving the sun, firing) takes 10 seconds, so from 10 to 30 seconds.

Q4: Who can fire it?
A4: Theoretically, anyone authorized to do so (in latter answers referred as "mundane operator"). Practically, there are differences between Mathilde firing it and nonmagical people doing it (explained in latter answers)

Q5: Who can be the target?
A5: When mundane operator fires it they can only target races for which Eye has targeting crystals, and only one at a time (no frying Skaven and Orcs together). When Mathilde fires it she can burn anyone (as with normal Burning Shadows), but only if Gazul approves.

Q6: How much juice does it have?
A6: Mundane operator can use it for 2 hours each day (using Ulgu capacitors). Mathilde can fire it 24/7, the limit is her own exhaustion.

Q7: Can it be counterspelled? What are the consequences?
A7: It can. When mundane operator fires it, it is easier to counter, but neither the Eye nor the operator suffer any consequences from it (like using enchanting object). If Mathilde fires it, then any attempt to counter is a contest against her with all applicable traits (like Waaghbane), but with a bad roll Mathilde can eat a miscast.

Q8: Can our allies protect us from that?
A8: Yes, allied wizards and runesmiths can interfere with enemies' attempts to counter the Eye, but such interference cannot induce miscasts in enemy spellcasters since they weren't casting anything in the first place.

Q9: Can we use the sun-moving part for something else?
A9: In general, no. Sun only moves locally and for a short time, so no remaking K8P into a tropical paradise.


@BoneyM, did I get anything wrong? @thread, what else should be added?
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The sun moving illusion is a power hog that runs off multiple ulgu powerstones. We don't know how much sun moving they can sustain or how long it takes them to recharge although we can surmise that their charging times are sunset and sunrise.

The Red Tower light source draws its aqshy from the various fireplaces of Mathilde's rooms. It can probably give more shots in a night than the sun mover can in a day. Whether it can project a clean shadow all the way across the caldera is an open question but this version of K8P seems small enough that it's likely it can.

The limitation on turning K8P into a tropical paradise is rainfall. We get plenty of sun.
 
masses of snotlings are pretty much a non issue, remember clearing out the snotling town in the Underway. Barring the Squigs it was not a fight, it was pest control
 
Zero Gravitas said:
Or that it'd take divine intervention for the orc Shamans to do something about it. Mathilde has her anti-greenskin trait and the top tier tower supporting her and Gazul on top of that. An orc Shaman would have to detect the spell and instantly react against some formidable opposition.
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Devine intervention can be argued to happens to Orc as well.

40 % of them must feel to be blessed and destined for great things.

Of course, one of them might comment:
'Do you want to continue this Theological argument in the tunnel or when we ran out?'

Also..

As the western gates are not an issue, i assume the marauding Goblins now will enter K8P as well if they chase their sworn enemies?
 
Chopak said:
Is the casting roll required when Mathilde fires it (i guess yes)? Can it result in crit-success-miscast?
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Whether or not a roll is required is more about the narrative than hard rules. When it is dramatic moment (like now) a roll is required. When it is routine (like our first demonstration of it or theoretical scenario of someone burning small Greenskin raiding party attacking trade caravan) no roll is required.
 
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B_omega said:
As the western gates are not an issue, i assume the marauding Goblins now will enter K8P as well if they chase their sworn enemies?
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So we get the opportunity to decimate a second Greenskin tribe in under 24 hours? That would be insanity, and would probably make the Eight Peaks one of the few places in Mallus where four Greenskin tribes were destroyed in the space of 48 hours.
 
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