- Location
- madison
Holy crap! he's willing to give up ground! that's, that is a solid plan, but its exactly the kind of smart play dwarfs can almost never make. Belgar is really getting good at avoiding typical dwarven pitfalls.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Holy crap! he's willing to give up ground! that's, that is a solid plan, but its exactly the kind of smart play dwarfs can almost never make. Belgar is really getting good at avoiding typical dwarven pitfalls.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Especially since we'd be blasting their reinforcement back line as they flow through the West Gate.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This is a solid point.
@BoneyM: Would it be possible for Mathilde to prearrange some signals with whoever would take over the Eye's control chair after she left to go to the Citadel? Specifically for moving the sun to one of two positions: 1. where the Citadel's shadow would fall on the entrance to Karag Mhonar, and 2. where the Citadel's shadow would fall on the entrance to Karagril. Or is that difficult to work out ahead of time, because the Grey Tower's controls are all set up for moving the sun in relation to Karag Nar?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I considered that, yes, but the majority are gone. Worst case scenario, we don't have to fight the trolls in cramped conditions. Best case, they fight against the Orcs.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Ahh... Of course, I completely forgot we can just make the sun go where we want. Well here comes the sun.
Too difficult to work out ahead of time, aiming for anything but Nar's shadow can be assumed to only be possible with Mathilde in control of it.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
worst case scenario, the trolls are now in range of artillery. How warpy is a gut when its got grapeshot tearing through it?
Pempelune
Fanfiction Deep State
So, that confirms that there was no access to the Under-Empire in Yar.
That means the connection to the Under-Empire is either in Under-Zilfin or Under-Moulder - probably in Under-Zilfin as the City of Pillar is known to be particularly expansive.
- Location
- Mexico
Not if the shamans either can't see or are being pushed by the tide as they enter.
Or if we are lucky and have time to go assassinate them before they arrive.
[ ] FIRST LINE: Caldera
Let enough forces through the Western Gates before unveiling the Eye of Gazul that they can't practically disengage. This will likely mean that large numbers will be shielded by the eastern edge of the Caldera, and Karagril, Karag Mhonar, and the Citadel will have to hold with conventional siege weapons.
I don't really see the argument, our most powerful weapons are in order: Doom Tower, the 2 Anvils, the artillery, Bok?, and then dwarf/man power.
we want the fight to be above ground and opened to bombardment as possible.
Let enough forces through the Western Gates before unveiling the Eye of Gazul that they can't practically disengage. This will likely mean that large numbers will be shielded by the eastern edge of the Caldera, and Karagril, Karag Mhonar, and the Citadel will have to hold with conventional siege weapons.
I don't really see the argument, our most powerful weapons are in order: Doom Tower, the 2 Anvils, the artillery, Bok?, and then dwarf/man power.
we want the fight to be above ground and opened to bombardment as possible.
I suspect Belegar's trait has a good change of developing into dyed in the wool radicalism, not Gotri's kind where he is at least in some part rebelling against his elders, runic boombox style, but a deeply held tried and tested ideology.
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it's not that memetic. Arguably speaking, defence in depth is a viable play here. The weakness of such play is acknowledged by Belegar already:
Orks don't have infinite morale or cohesion, and there's still no guarantees that they wouldn't consider cunning brutality and go through more than one entrance anyway aside from the West Gate if we choose to funnel them first before activating the Eye. Priority Zero is in effect still. We need to ensure the smallest amount of Dwarven lives lost — and the option to Withdraw is just that, ensuring such a thing.
Also Karagril wasn't that bloody. Every part including the mercs acquited themselves well, with Mathilde being the usual force multiplier in completely capping the leadership and destroying cohesion. And yes, it'll cost blood but we can always trade in the practically infinite gold for human blood instead.
The major thing that I have against Hold option is this:
Emphasis mine but our streak of luck has come to a rather abrupt end with Thorgrim's letter. I'll not push our luck if we don't have to. One hour at the minimum is not enough time, not even for Dwarves, to get something properly Cadia-like on Eight Peaks, but it is enough to get a rudimentary — for Dawi — defence set up to buy time for the second line, and then the third, and then the fourth, and all the traps in between set up properly.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I could work that out, though, and I've got the mental faculties of a wilted cabbage...
Streaks of luck are illusions, the dice have no memory one way or another.
- Location
- Seattle
I want to be able to use the phrase "you can barrow mine" the next time protecting river trade comes up in council.
- Location
- Internet, The
"Then you emerge"?
"better" and "longer" seems like trying to say the same thing twice. Consider removing one?
K8P is smol. Orcs are fast. Therefore they run from one mountain to the next in minutes.
Re;Vote
To me the most obvious plan seems to be to allow as many in as you think the conventional defenses and artillery can reliably smash, then cut off the incoming stream via battle-shadow. For example, wait until 50k orcs have amassed and try to storm the mountain, then activate the eye.
Of course I'd also give priority to the leaders. If Gorfang or what he was called is in the line of fire, then I'd try to fry him.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Thanks. As I wrote out the proposal, the problems occurred to me, but I figured I'd ask anyway. Ah well; worst case scenario, once the Eye is no longer mission-critical we go full murderblender.
I think that either you have misread the update or I am misreading you. It is currently, as of the vote, several hours before dawn -- call it 3 AM. Once dawn hits, there is a minimum of one more hour before the Waaagh arrives. So we have something like four hours to prepare.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
yeah but we definitely have more than an hour. its not dawn yet, still a few hours off. If the plan is to hold, we probably have at least 5
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- Location
- Singapore
[ ] FIRST LINE: Western Gates
Give any force foolish enough to enter the Western Gates the full power of the Eye of Gazul. This makes it almost certain they will seek entry elsewhere, most likely via the Wyvern Caves, which will have to be defended the normal way - if a defensive position kilometers above the ground can be considered 'normal'.
Always hold high ground.
[ ] SECOND LINE: Withdraw
Set up a fighting retreat through a dozen or more defensive positions through each mountain, making them bleed for each step without significantly endangering any friendly forces.
Tell the men the halflings need fresh fertilizer, the orcs just volunteered to jump into the compost heap.
[ ] THIRD LINE: Eastern Valley
Give up Kvinn-Wyr and the Sentinels, and allow the southern half of the Eastern Valley to become the final battlefield.
[ ] THIRD LINE: Underway
Hold the line at the Underway between Lhune and Karagril, and between Kvinn-Wyr and Mhonar.
I'm not sure about these 2. Which one is within range of the Eye?
Give any force foolish enough to enter the Western Gates the full power of the Eye of Gazul. This makes it almost certain they will seek entry elsewhere, most likely via the Wyvern Caves, which will have to be defended the normal way - if a defensive position kilometers above the ground can be considered 'normal'.
Always hold high ground.
[ ] SECOND LINE: Withdraw
Set up a fighting retreat through a dozen or more defensive positions through each mountain, making them bleed for each step without significantly endangering any friendly forces.
Tell the men the halflings need fresh fertilizer, the orcs just volunteered to jump into the compost heap.
[ ] THIRD LINE: Eastern Valley
Give up Kvinn-Wyr and the Sentinels, and allow the southern half of the Eastern Valley to become the final battlefield.
[ ] THIRD LINE: Underway
Hold the line at the Underway between Lhune and Karagril, and between Kvinn-Wyr and Mhonar.
I'm not sure about these 2. Which one is within range of the Eye?
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
You know, just thinking about numbers, but how many orcs are we expecting to get with the Shadow if we go for the Caldera? And then how many more can we expect to bleed them with either of the second line's option? Because as it stands, we are outnumbered eight-to-one. if we can shift that closer to four-to-one, or even two-to-one with the first shot, and then bleed them even further until an even match or better by the time we actually get stuck into full melee, that would make this painfully simple. So really, it's just a question of the fastest way to bleed them before the fight actually begins.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[ ] FIRST LINE: Caldera
Let enough forces through the Western Gates before unveiling the Eye of Gazul that they can't practically disengage. This will likely mean that large numbers will be shielded by the eastern edge of the Caldera, and Karagril, Karag Mhonar, and the Citadel will have to hold with conventional siege weapons.
Just because we have the Eye, doesn't mean we have to use it at every opportunity. People are used to fighting Greenskins conventionally, they'll manage without a runic superweapon on their side.
[ ] SECOND LINE: Hold
Build strong fortifications along the lines the greenskins are expected to approach from, and if they seek a way in use a wall of lead to keep them out. These points will only be abandoned if they become overwhelmed.
I like the idea of the Goraki Dwarven King being the one to advocate for a fighting retreat while the Dawongr Grey Magister pushing to turtle up and hold the line. While I appreciate Belegar's flexibility and desire to preserve Dawi lives, I think that instinct is somewhat misplaced here. By opening them up to mundane and magical bombardment, we'll save more people in the long run.
[ ] THIRD LINE: Eastern Valley
Give up Kvinn-Wyr and the Sentinels, and allow the southern half of the Eastern Valley to become the final battlefield.
These choices make the absolute most out of the Eye and our overwhelming fire support. If we have the time to do so, assassinating a few Shaman whenever possible (possibly through Windsage targeted bombing runs), it'll massively multiply the effectiveness of this plan. Once we've thoroughly whittled down the Waaagh's magical support, they'll have pretty much no counterplay to the Eye.
Between artillery, Mathilde's Waaghbane trait and the two top tier Runelords we have, it'll be really rough to try.
Let enough forces through the Western Gates before unveiling the Eye of Gazul that they can't practically disengage. This will likely mean that large numbers will be shielded by the eastern edge of the Caldera, and Karagril, Karag Mhonar, and the Citadel will have to hold with conventional siege weapons.
Just because we have the Eye, doesn't mean we have to use it at every opportunity. People are used to fighting Greenskins conventionally, they'll manage without a runic superweapon on their side.
[ ] SECOND LINE: Hold
Build strong fortifications along the lines the greenskins are expected to approach from, and if they seek a way in use a wall of lead to keep them out. These points will only be abandoned if they become overwhelmed.
I like the idea of the Goraki Dwarven King being the one to advocate for a fighting retreat while the Dawongr Grey Magister pushing to turtle up and hold the line. While I appreciate Belegar's flexibility and desire to preserve Dawi lives, I think that instinct is somewhat misplaced here. By opening them up to mundane and magical bombardment, we'll save more people in the long run.
[ ] THIRD LINE: Eastern Valley
Give up Kvinn-Wyr and the Sentinels, and allow the southern half of the Eastern Valley to become the final battlefield.
These choices make the absolute most out of the Eye and our overwhelming fire support. If we have the time to do so, assassinating a few Shaman whenever possible (possibly through Windsage targeted bombing runs), it'll massively multiply the effectiveness of this plan. Once we've thoroughly whittled down the Waaagh's magical support, they'll have pretty much no counterplay to the Eye.
Between artillery, Mathilde's Waaghbane trait and the two top tier Runelords we have, it'll be really rough to try.
- Location
- Finland
Getting back to the EIC for a moment.
What happens to our stock if/when we die?
EIC is dangerous, even if it is currently under control, the potential harm from such a huge enterprise is immense, and i can't help but worry that the moment we loose control over it things go sideways.
But it is also useful tool, as long as it is under control.
Maybe we should make sure the stocks we own go to Grey College if we are no longer around? Possibly even move those stocks to College now with either us acting as a representative, or having the college take over directly.
What happens to our stock if/when we die?
EIC is dangerous, even if it is currently under control, the potential harm from such a huge enterprise is immense, and i can't help but worry that the moment we loose control over it things go sideways.
But it is also useful tool, as long as it is under control.
Maybe we should make sure the stocks we own go to Grey College if we are no longer around? Possibly even move those stocks to College now with either us acting as a representative, or having the college take over directly.
Definitely Caldera for the First Line, it's what let's us leverage our assets to their fullest extent, and therefore let us inflict the most damage while they aren't prepared for everything we can throw at them. Their major advantage here is numbers, we want to reduce them as much as possible, more than anything else.
I'm less sure about the Second Line, although the conversation about Hold has that becoming more appealing to me, which is nice for the part of me that didn't want to give them up anyway because we just got those. That said, Withdraw has a lot of merit, and would allow us to engage in further asymmetric warfare against them.
The Third Line is...I dunno. Either seems good. If forced to choose, I would prefer the East Valley, because if things have gone to shit that badly then we probably won't have had any time to shift any of our artillery underground, which would allow us to make the choke points truly bloody.
I'm less sure about the Second Line, although the conversation about Hold has that becoming more appealing to me, which is nice for the part of me that didn't want to give them up anyway because we just got those. That said, Withdraw has a lot of merit, and would allow us to engage in further asymmetric warfare against them.
The Third Line is...I dunno. Either seems good. If forced to choose, I would prefer the East Valley, because if things have gone to shit that badly then we probably won't have had any time to shift any of our artillery underground, which would allow us to make the choke points truly bloody.
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