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Johann is working on them, he has access to all our resources. And tbh I'd prefer to abandon skaven artifacts than vitae.

It's really a comparative advantage problem, so remember: even if you are objectively better at producing everything, you still win from free trade.
The difference is that we can do the skaven artifacts as an official project. Hell, it would be best that way given our gold wizards and it doesn't seem like people would object to it. On the other hand, people are really against using the Vitae as an official project. Overall, I expect skaven research to be finished really fast with Vitae or something smilar running in the background.
I'm not sure how else to interpret "dark magic" and "blasphemy" other than Mathilde believing that the use of Dhar is a moral transgression.
Note that she doesn't call using Dhar a blasphemy. She specifically says "falling to temptation" as one and "doing so little with it" as another. This speaks more to her pride IMO than to any inherent moral vehemence towards Dhar.
 
I think I agree. The issue is not that we wish for there to be no backlog research actions, but rather that we are not getting to take any of them.
I mean, there's an obvious answer to this problem: stop going all in on our job and excelling 110% every turn. I think this very turn is the first time we've dropped the number of actions spent on our job to what, 2 IIRC? And I completely support this course of action - we've damn well earned some time to spend on our own things.
 
...wait.
Where did Eshin get monsters for this special event?
... Clan Moulder, maybe?

I mean, they were willing to sell to Goblins of all people.
Anyone knows about the traits of these trolls?
Kind of curious, the warpgut clinging to the warpstone boulder makes sense but why don't the river trolls want to leave, and for the matter, how did they even get here? No rivers leading in that I know of
Well if the Warpgut trolls don't want to leave because the warpstone is right there... The river trolls probably don't want to leave because there's no river anywhere else. Same reasons, basically.

The normal troll can go and make their home pretty much anywhere, by contrast. They're probably more comfortable in Kvinn-Wyr, which has been the home of Trolls for a long time, but if they can pop over somewhere else for a snack...
 
I haven't seen this video, but I'm not surprised. Skaven are based not so much on rats, but on stereotypes against rats, and their running theme is "plague rats of DOOM".

As anyone who has kept rats at home can attest, they are, in fact, extremely caring and companionable and each idividual rat has a lot of personality. Their only failing as a pet is a very short natural lifespan.

Incidentally, that's why I no longer keep them.
So I take you've never had rats get into your granary to ruin your grain? Or perhaps eat the insulation off the wires in your car? The only good rat is a dead one.
 
Well guys here is something interesting while we wait for the update.

Everybody here would agree that the Skaven are one of the most evil races (if not the most evil race) in Warhammer... And if there is a central characteristic of them is that of Selfishness... But what is incredibly curious is that IRL rats are actually quite altruistic, and shows remarkable levels of empathy towards strangers.




If these were Skaven, the free rat would have killed the caged one and ate him.

I haven't seen this video, but I'm not surprised. Skaven are based not so much on rats, but on stereotypes against rats, and their running theme is "plague rats of DOOM".

As anyone who has kept rats at home can attest, they are, in fact, extremely caring and companionable and each idividual rat has a lot of personality. Their only failing as a pet is a very short natural lifespan.

Incidentally, that's why I no longer keep them.
That's just further evience that when it comes to Skaven, they aren't inherently evil, it's nurture against nature. Here:

"As a whole, the Skaven is, at its base, a very selfish and unloving creature, raised within a turbulent society that only promotes violence, cunning, and the need for survival. "
 
If we want more ap like actions open to us we should do things like teaching wolf language. Once hes smart enough to contribute we might get a wolf based ap/half a turn linked to what he can do.
 
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If we want more ap like actions open to us we should do things like teaching wolf language. Once hes smart enough to contribute we might get a wolf based ap/half a turn liketed by what he can do.
I don't think the QM has ever said anything to suggest that is likely to happen, though that would be rad. He, for instance, lacks opposable thumbs.

We still want to teach him language next turn for synergy in trying to learn Queekish, but I would caution people to temper their expectations.
 
Which would be a valid argument if our problem was "our backlog is huge", not "our backlog is ever-increasing and we rarely-if-ever actually work on it" (which is sort of a subset of the former, but you get my point). How much research have we gotten done since we settled in Eight Peaks? Two-three actions worth (I think it's 2 actions snekjuice, and maybe 1 other that I'm forgetting)? The only reason we got through the Damnable Book was because it didn't cost us any actions once the decision was made.

Again, the way we solve this is by delegation and moving items out of our backlog into someone else's. Unless the argument is that this stuff will literally not get done unless Mathilde does it personally?

I'm not going to give up non-research actions, too much of the story is Mathilde *doing* things. So I accept that we are a hero unit first, a laypriest second, and a researcher third. That means I pick the 2-3 most 'mathilde' things in the backlog and let the others go to people who can get us 80% of the results in 20% of the time.

Like, if we have a track record that suggests about one research action per turn, we are better off planning on that frame than trying to warp the game or push for a different voting base.

Edit: there also send to be a profound misunderstanding of AP as a mechanic, given the ideas for getting more AP points in any given turn: It exists to limit how much writing the QM does each turn. If we get more AP in any given turn it means we get *slower turns*, and less flexibility as things will be locked in longer between votes. There isn't a secret way to win this because the mechanic isn't there to prevent winning, it's to manage workflow IRL.
 
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Note that she doesn't call using Dhar a blasphemy. She specifically says "falling to temptation" as one and "doing so little with it" as another. This speaks more to her pride IMO than to any inherent moral vehemence towards Dhar.
Actually, I think it speaks to the tempting nature of Dhar.

Like... I forget the exact wording on this, but. We were told later on after this -- possibly it was part of the discussion of the Belt and its effects, actually -- that all during the course of our time in Sylvania and the Purge and casting magic? We had the equivalent of a little voice whispering 'Go on, try it' in the back of our head. And that this was one of the things that the Belt would block off.

More recently, we had... was it Algard or Dragomas or Roswita saying that 'The Wizard in charge of Battle Wizards in Sylvania, was saying that they had to be extra careful in Sylvania.' Gotta be vigilant.

And I think that a really good example of subtle temptation and insidiousness, would be to have your narrative speaking of how 'They fell to darkness, and they suck so bad?' Because, think about it, that's close to supervillain monologue territory isn't it? It's adjacent to stuff like 'Those fools! Why, what I would do with it is...' and 'I'll show them all!' And as chocolote12 and others have pointed out, Dhar and Necromancy is to Supervillainy and Dark Lord-ism, as Aqshy is to Hot-Bloodedness/Headedness/Passion.

So yeah. Screw that noise. Dhar, man. Not even once.
 
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I don't think the QM has ever said anything to suggest that is likely to happen, though that would be rad. He, for instance, lacks opposable thumbs.
This just means we need to make him a collar that grants telekinesis. Or perhaps a Coat of Arms. Hmm... see if we can grant him a controlled and scaled-down variant of Dread Aspect that just provides shadow-arms? :V

Edit:
And I think that a really good example of subtle temptation and insidiousness, would be to have your narrative speaking of how 'They fell to darkness, and they suck so bad?' Because, think about it, that's close to supervillain monologue territory isn't it? It's adjacent to stuff like 'Those fools! Why, what I would do with it is...' and 'I'll show them all!' And as pickle and others have pointed out, Dhar and Necromancy is to Supervillainy and Dark Lord-ism, as Aqshy is to Hot-Bloodedness/Headedness/Passion.

So yeah. Screw that noise. Dhar, man. Not even once.
I think Boney said, quite some time ago, that if Mathilde did go supervillain, it would be doing things that look terrible, but if you know exactly what's going on... are still dangerous, but not nearly as bad as they look on the surface.

Ah, here it is:
Unless things go really bad in a lot of ways, I don't think Mathilde could become a villain villain. But I could easily see her becoming a sort of "you fools, you're only meddling in my plans because you're too short-sighted to see that my way is the only way to- okay look I know they all say that but I actually mean it and the data is sound so please stop trying to besiege my volcano lair, didn't you read my paper?"

"Okay fair point but look if you go to Barak Varr talk to the local bookseller and ask for his books on Dwarven volcanology, there's this concept called 'hydrothermal power', that's why I'm in a volcano lair, it's totally not for the evil style points."
 
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Yes were never going to get more ap per turn or more half action equivalents. Thats why the duckling club doesnt exist and why we dont have a tower of serenity.
 
The Articles are the legal structure that permit the Colleges to exist at all. Mathilde has never shown particular resentment of the Articles; in contrast, she seems to take her responsibilities pretty seriously, and has onscreen been grateful to Magnus the Pious for setting up the laws that protect her rights as a wizard and that kept her from being burned at the stake as a child.
I never said she resent the articles, like I said before the important thing is the distinction between the letter, the praticality and the spirit of the law.
For example something that I always recall when we disscuss the articles was the Magisterial exam where Mathilde almost said he loyalty to the colleges was higher than that to the empire, but chaned when she remenbere legaly it had to be the oposite. And that gets me thinking, she personaly is likely more loyal to the colleges than the institution of the empire, at least a bit, wich would be a break of the letter of the articles, but since she never had to act against one in faovr of the other the praticality and spirit remain unbroken an so she is unbothered. That is why I think she cares little for the letter of the articles in and of itself and more the praticalitis and spirit of it, not a matter of breaking the law in itself but more of a consequences of breaking the law.

I'm not sure how else to interpret "dark magic" and "blasphemy" other than Mathilde believing that the use of Dhar is a moral transgression.
If you keep reading you will notice that the blasphemys she was refering about were failing to temptation and failing to do anything about it, she was blaming the countess for her failings as a person, for her lack of ability, she isn't realy adressing dhar besides being something that was misshandled.

I actually agree with you, but I have to ask you a question: why are you raising this point?
Objectively this started because a reference to the SCP foundation gave me a felling of dissonance that stroked my curiosity.
Being honest this continues because I have hard time getting out of disscussion once I get into it, more ofter than not I tend to keep going untill either it reachs the conclusion or I fall due to exhaustion. So fundamentaly I raised the point to you for no other reason that you raised a point to me I am likely to keep going untill we get to the bottom of this rabbit hole.
 
I for one am not really annoyed by our lack of progress vis a vis our backlog, mainly because I don't see it as a lack of progress. We have made a ton of research and we have had very interesting results from it. Yes, we do it slowly enough that things are still accumulating, but are we doing the research to clear a backlog, or to see the results of our research?
 
Edit: there also send to be a profound misunderstanding of AP as a mechanic, given the ideas for getting more AP points in any given turn: It exists to limit how much writing the QM does each turn. If we get more AP in any given turn it means we get *slower turns*, and less flexibility as things will be locked in longer between votes. There isn't a secret way to win this because the mechanic isn't there to prevent winning, it's to manage workflow IRL.
Alternatively, it's to pack as much into each AP as we can, pushing up the efficiency that way - it'll probably take Boney about as long to write up us writing a book as two papers, but we get a lot more out of the book per AP, by my understanding. Push back on AP-inefficient tasks!

It was me. I said that.
Sorry, who are you again? We were talking about this cool guy pickle and their cool ideas. Maybe you should try that? :V
 
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Like... I forget the exact wording on this, but. We were told later on after this -- possibly it was part of the discussion of the Belt and its effects, actually -- that all during the course of our time in Sylvania and the Purge and casting magic? We had the equivalent of a little voice whispering 'Go on, try it' in the back of our head. And that this was one of the things that the Belt would block off.
Gosh dangit, it was in the 'juggle warpstone' post after all. I had specifically excluded that passage and post from my list of stuff to check, because I thought I saw that post already referenced recently and it didn't have the 'evil shoulder devil' thing I was thinking of... so I dismissed it and specifically not looked for it.
It means that you could juggle warpstone, hug a demon, and fling Dhar around and just have to deal with your robes getting singed as the corruption burns away rather than sinking into your soul. If you had this in Sylvania you would have just had to deal with occasional minor flashfires on your skin instead of those ominous 'go on, raise the dead, you know you want to' options popping up all over the place. It probably says a lot about Kragg's opinion of manling wizards that he saw that as the main sort of 'protection' you needed.

That said, while it makes you immune to metaphysical corruption it doesn't make you immune to metaphorical corruption; you could still go down a dark road where you become the next Nagash or fall to one of the Chaos Gods through hubris or personality flaws or personal tragedy, but you're not going to get fishhooked into it by mystical means.
But it was in this post all along, the quote I was thinking of.

"If you had this in Sylvania you would have just had to deal with occasional minor flashfires on your skin instead of those ominous 'go on, raise the dead, you know you want to' options popping up all over the place. It probably says a lot about Kragg's opinion of manling wizards that he saw that as the main sort of 'protection' you needed."

Now while the most obvious example of the 'go on, raise the dead' options was when the option to use necromancy on Abelhelm Van Hal cropped up, I think it not unreasonable to think that... having Mathilde's internal narration occasionally pop up with stuff like 'Look at them, they're using it so badly!' definitely fits the same overall wavelength and theme, no? The idea of providing reasons for using it. For wanting it. Providing excuses, too.
 
@Zaratustra I think Mathilde's minor preference for the Colleges over the Empire is less of a concern than her very real preference for Karaz Ankor over the Empire. Push come to shove Mathilde is more likely to be an agent of King Belegar's power and incuence in the Empire than the reverse.
 
Gosh dangit, it was in the 'juggle warpstone' post after all. I had specifically excluded that passage and post from my list of stuff to check, because I thought I saw that post already referenced recently and it didn't have the 'evil shoulder devil' thing I was thinking of... so I dismissed it and specifically not looked for it.

But it was in this post all along, the quote I was thinking of.

"If you had this in Sylvania you would have just had to deal with occasional minor flashfires on your skin instead of those ominous 'go on, raise the dead, you know you want to' options popping up all over the place. It probably says a lot about Kragg's opinion of manling wizards that he saw that as the main sort of 'protection' you needed."

Now while the most obvious example of the 'go on, raise the dead' options was when the option to use necromancy on Abelhelm Van Hal cropped up, I think it not unreasonable to think that... having Mathilde's internal narration occasionally pop up with stuff like 'Look at them, they're using it so badly!' definitely fits the same overall wavelength and theme, no? The idea of providing reasons for using it. For wanting it. Providing excuses, too.
IIRC it wasn't just internal narration, we were given the option to use dhar in various votes during that whole thing.
 
@Zaratustra I think Mathilde's minor preference for the Colleges over the Empire is less of a concern than her very real preference for Karaz Ankor over the Empire. Push come to shove Mathilde is more likely to be an agent of King Belegar's power and incuence in the Empire than the reverse.
Actualy is is the oposite, the interesting thing is that due to her divided loyalties and the alliance between the Empire and the Karaz Ankor Mathield kind of defaults as an agent of the one she is current outside. She helped Silvania as propaganda for Belegar, the thing she learned and the favors she spend while in K8P helped against the skaven and since she spends most of her time in the Karak she is mostly an agent of the empire. And so forth this leads me to believe we don't need to worry about this unless her loyalties actualy clash, no one is going to fault Mathilde for acting as an agent of King Belegar so long as she holds a position in his council or be the same token doubt that her having that seat means the empire has a degree of influence, the problem only comes if the situation calls to benefit one at the cost of the other.

But this is kind of going on a tangent since I was mostly trying to demonstrate how he feelings weren't that tied to the letter of the law.
 
Wait, those necromancy (and similar) options were supposed to be representing actual corruptive magic effects on Mathilde? I thought they were just representing plain old seductive temptation, not actual mind-whammying.
 
Wait, those necromancy (and similar) options were supposed to be representing actual corruptive magic effects on Mathilde? I thought they were just representing plain old seductive temptation, not actual mind-whammying.
Mathilde could have experimented with Dhar just as easily anywhere else; the Dhar just put it on her mind and reduced the automatic inhibitions, I think.
 
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