Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[agumentic]

If we seal the Caldera how is the Waaagh going to get in?

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Through the West Gates, which are not the mountains.

 

[chocolote12]

If we seal the Caldera how is the Waaagh going to get in?

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I think they mean the mountain entrances into the Caldera; a bowl with no openings except the one they came through, keeping them bottled up for the few hours it'll take to line up a truly great shot. Risky to the citadel, but all combat is risky.

 

[Quest]

If we seal the Caldera how is the Waaagh going to get in?

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He's talking about sealing up the mountain and leaving the West Gate open so that they can't attack us from underground and have to face us in our pre-fortified areas.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

He's talking about sealing up the mountain and leaving the West Gate open so that they can't attack us from underground and have to face us in our pre-fortified areas.

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How would the Red Fang get underground without going through a gate first anyway? Are there entrances to the under mountain on the mountain's outside face that the Skaven dug or something? Obviously the Dwarves wouldn't break their own security like that.

 

[veekie]

Maybe the warpstone destruction question is a moot point. The dwarves might well have a good method of safely destroying warpstone. We've got a rune that deals with Dhar, after all. Might be worth asking some time.

Edit: By the way, is anyone else interested in the idea of building a warpstone detector as a way of detecting Skaven tunneling incursions before they break through into Dwarven tunnels?

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Detection has a problem that its not really in Ulgu's remit. You'd have better luck making a tower which blankets the lowest level of the place in an ankle deep layer of Universal Confusion mist and detect Skaven tunneling by dint of the hilarious infighting whenever they poke a hole and the mist fills their tunnel with instant stupid.

As for dwarf warpstone disposal, they mostly seal it away.
Theres not many ways to destroy warpstone that don't also release lots of energy

 

[Quest]

How would the Red Fang get underground anyway? Are there entrances to the under mountain on the mountain's outside face that the Skaven dug or something? Obviously the Dwarves wouldn't break their own security like that.

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Our superweapon only reaches to the West Gate but not beyond it. We'll have to wait for them to enter to burn them. It's possible for them to escape into the other mountains due to the entrances facing inwards where we wouldn't be able to fry them. Then we'll have to deal with them underground, which is not ideal.

Originally, we expected the rest of our enemies to bleed them but it's looking like we won't have many enemies left so we need to capture the Karag ourselves. If we man the mountains, we'd be spread thin. So we seal up the entrances.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Note that if we take and hold Mhonar and if we kill the trolls in Kvinn-Wyr, which I want to do anyway because I hate the idea of having enemies behind our lines in a big battle, then we can leave Kvinn-Wyr empty. So holding Mhonar doesn't really cost us anything. (Assuming that Mhonar is actually empty, of course.)

I am also uncomfortable with leaving it empty. On we use the Eye of Gazul the first time, we may have groups of orcs running in different directions, and if there are orcs at Karagril and Mhonar at the same time, I would certainly want to prioritize defending Karagril, meaning the Orcs may have an easy time just waltzing into Mhonar.

In Yar they will at least have to fight their way through Skaven.

To be clear, I am not against taking Karag Yar in principle , I am just opposed to taking it as given before we have good intelligence

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If there are orcs at both Karagil and Mhonar, such that we don't have the 30 seconds to hit both of them, we have already screwed up massively.

I'm not against just sealing the entrance, but the reasons we're leery of taking Mhonar are threefold:

1. We'd have to deal with the trolls in Kvinn-Wyr to free up people to garisson it, and our forces aren't well suited to dealing with them.
2. We don't know if the mystery has come back or what its deal is, so that's a potential threat
3. There's a good chance that taking the mountain will get greenskins running in from Rhyn who think they can take us, who were scared off by the mystery.

 

[Abhorsen]

How would the Red Fang get underground without going through a gate first anyway? Are there entrances to the under mountain on the mountain's outside face that the Skaven dug or something? Obviously the Dwarves wouldn't break their own security like that.

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I think you are screwing up the Under-Caldera, which is where Mathilde is right now, and the Caldera, which is hundreds of feet above her, outside, and connected to the West Gate, Citadel, and a bunch of mountains. By sealing Mountains that we take, it limits lanes of attack for the coming Waaagh.

 

[notanautomaton]

I just realized that the 40k population number for Karak Azul is doubly wrong. Not only does GW not get population numbers, but that's the population for the 2520's, not the quest present. And what happened in the canon timeline?

Karak Azul was sacked by Gorfang, Kazador's kin were taken, and Kazrik was nailed to the throne and shaved while Kazador was out hunting. No Dwarfhold would take this lying down, so I'd say that we could conservatively estimate that half of the Karak died in the attack. Luckily, that's highly unlikely to happen due to Belegar's success.

 

[Quest]

I just realized that the 40k population number for Karak Azul is doubly wrong. Not only does GW not get population numbers, but that's the population for the 2520's, not the quest present. And what happened in the canon timeline?

Karak Azul was sacked by Gorfang, Kazador's kin were taken, and Kazrik was nailed to the throne and shaved while Kazador was out hunting. No Dwarfhold would take this lying down, so I'd say that we could conservatively estimate that half of the Karak died in the attack. Luckily, that's highly unlikely to happen due to Belegar's success.

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Yeah. Gorfang's target is probably something closer to home this time.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

I just realized that the 40k population number for Karak Azul is doubly wrong. Not only does GW not get population numbers, but that's the population for the 2520's, not the quest present. And what happened in the canon timeline?

Karak Azul was sacked by Gorfang, Kazador's kin were taken, and Kazrik was nailed to the throne and shaved while Kazador was out hunting. No Dwarfhold would take this lying down, so I'd say that we could conservatively estimate that half of the Karak died in the attack. Luckily, that's highly unlikely to happen due to Belegar's success.

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Gorfang might very well be the orc in charge of the huge Waaagh in which case his fate shall quite likely be a rather inglorious demise.

 

[picklepikkl]

Also are you sure that you aren't projecting you values and the distinction is meaningfull more to you than it would be for Mathilde ?
Because if recent disscussion showed somehing is that people have a need to feel like they are doind the moraly right that often supercedes the actual logic of the setting.
Consider you own words, '' touching the bad stuff'', do you believe touching dhar is imoral in and of itself ? Why? Why would Mathilde believe the same?
Personaly I don't think Mathilde see touching dhar as imoral so much as stupid and generaly not worth it due to the inevitable conseuences, but as a grey wizard she is logical and practical, so when in a situation the reason that lead to the conclusion don't apply then the logic doesn't apply.

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Mathilde is disgusted by Dhar.

"Neither have I," he responds frankly. "Strange choice of career for it, I know. But I've always focussed on burning the necromancers, and not on those wielding the other colours of magic."

"Necromancy isn't a colour in it's own right," you respond instantly, still unable to help yourself. The Colleges were very sure to hammer home this particular point. "It's Shyish tainted with Dhar, not a true colour."

He raises an eyebrow. "The distinction is a lot clearer when you can actually see and feel the Winds, I've heard."

"It is." You're not sure where this conversation is going now, so you just hang on and go with the ride. "All the colours of magic, even Shyish, have a natural, almost pure feel to them. They're... I suppose you could think of them as being a clear, vibrant colour, shining like stained glass. But Dhar is when that magic has rotted away, and the colour is gone, replaced by a putrid brown. It's not just ugly, it's ugly that exists only at the expense of beauty."

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You're contemplating your retreat into the tower when you feel it - the feel and taste and smell like a disturbed swamp, as the Dhar that lies thick on the ground stirs in answer to a distant call.

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Orc magic, you have a fraction of a second to consider, is unlike anything you've previously encountered. All the revulsion of Dhar with none of the temptation.

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I'm not projecting here; Mathilde thinks Dhar is a perversion of the magic she loves. It's not just wrong to use it, it's gross.

 

[DragonParadox]

Mathilde is disgusted by Dhar.



I'm not projecting here; Mathilde thinks Dhar is a perversion of the magic she loves. It's not just wrong to use it, it's gross.

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It is worth nothing that she used to fear Dhar also, not she does not as proven by herding the miscast out of Gretel's head. 'I do not fear Dhar,' explicitly, that makes her rather unique among the Colleges of Magic at least of those who have not already fallen. I'm not saying this because I want her to use Dhar, just trying to nuance the perspective.

 

[Glau]

It's something that will feel really really really nice for players, by relieving the pressure of all of us worrying that we'll never get around to researching all the shinies we have. And it'll only provide one per turn.

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I actually really like the pressure of never being able to follow up on everything. It creates meaningful opportunity costs to the actions we do take, and forces specialization. (Admittedly, about 1/2 the quest is adamantly in favor of a generalist Mathilde willing and able to deal with any situation, but I think that is very far from realistic, and spends a ton of time on prep for things that will never happen rather than leveraging a more limited set of skills on actual attempted changes to the world.)

So I very much want to only ever be able to research maybe 1/2 our backlog. It makes the question of 'what next?' matter a lot.

And it forces us to, if we want everything researched, develop competent allies and then hand stuff off to them. Like the rest of the colleges, and how we deal with this stuff IRL.

So I think we should give up on the black gem, the skaven firearms, the chaos dwarf book, the skaven technical manuals, and the other little stuff. I want to do the light with Adele, mostly to get her name on a paper with us (would like to co-author w all our journeymen at some point before they graduate), the vitae, the coin, and our multi-wind efforts.

Focus on our best stuff, let others support us with the rest.

 

[Abhorsen]

It is worth nothing that she used to fear Dhar also, not she does not as proven by herding the miscast out of Gretel's head. 'I do not fear Dhar,' explicitly, that makes her rather unique among the Colleges of Magic at least of those who have not already fallen. I'm not saying this because I want her to use Dhar, just trying to nuance the perspective.

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Yeah, I don't fear cockroaches, but they are still disgusting.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Detection has a problem that its not really in Ulgu's remit. You'd have better luck making a tower which blankets the lowest level of the place in an ankle deep layer of Universal Confusion mist and detect Skaven tunneling by dint of the hilarious infighting whenever they poke a hole and the mist fills their tunnel with instant stupid.

As for dwarf warpstone disposal, they mostly seal it away.
Theres not many ways to destroy warpstone that don't also release lots of energy

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I was thinking it might be done with some sort of magitech device, rather than a spell. Like a sphere of enchanted sensors surrounding a chunk of warpstone that detects resonance with other distant pieces of warpstone and direction, or a network of enchanted sensors that sample the nearby winds using a rune and trigger an alert if they detect any tiny wisps of Dhar leaking off of warpstone below.

As for disposal and the energy release problem, could we perhaps use the room in our tower with the 'oh shit, absorb all the magic!' button?

 

[Quest]

Focus on our best stuff, let others support us with the rest.

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We are pretty much the expert on skaven in both the Empire and Karaz Ankor. If we abandon the skaven artifacts, they will remain abandoned.

 

[chocolote12]

Consider you own words, '' touching the bad stuff'', do you believe touching dhar is imoral in and of itself ? Why? Why would Mathilde believe the same?

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It is black magic; we'd get Dhar EXP from it, even if we can't get Dhar corruption. Using Dhar is inherently supervillainous, by its nature; you must be a supervillain to use it, just like you must be very fuzzy on the details to use Ulgu, or passionate to use Aqshy.

This is important, because it's our corruption meter. We don't do magical fish-hook 'gotcha' corruption, we do 'money is tight and I've got bills to pay' corruption. Remember, we spent a lot of time as the Spymaster of Stirland just embezzling, because it was expected; that only changed when the thread had a change of heart about the business. We're only as much of a villain as we can justify to ourselves.

The slippery slope is a bad argument because it makes it sound sudden; one two, five hundred. Five hundred badness is an absurd extrapolation, so people wave away the possibility as pointless fear mongering. But a gradual decline through acclimation is a perfectly legitimate argument; one, one and a half, two, two and a half, three. Three's just a little more than two and a half, and it's not like we'd get in any more trouble than we already would be, so the only boundary is really our own hesitance.

We've read the Liber Mortis. We're past the threshold where they'd burn us out of fear. Each level of incremental moral decay isn't based on some legal nuance, but rather what Mathilde believes about the whole business, what she can tell herself about it all when she's sitting in a comfortable chair by the fire. 'I'm keeping the Liber Mortis safe; wasn't there that whole business with the Lahmians?' (and a beat that the argument about what to do with the book did hit upon was that the Empire was frankly a terrible place to keep things secure, given how much corruption and negligence lead to the loss of treasures and artifacts over the years), and then that becomes, quite reasonably and at no point with any serious logical or moral flaws, 'I've read the Liber Mortis, and it had useful insights, but I've never practiced any of the spells in it; the tactical knowledge has let me help the allies of mankind against the forces of darkness'.

She didn't succumb to evil or start consuming puppies with her morning tea, she just checked to see if anything was actually useful in it, and there was useful knowledge, and even stuff she could use without breaking any actual rules; a wonderful result. And at some point in the future, that might become 'Okay, I practiced the one spell in the Liber Mortis that makes the other evil magic go away, and that's fine, because even a Grand Theogonist thought it was okay to cast that spell when you really needed it, and imagine what sorts of horrible things I'd be forcing other people to go through just because I didn't want to break a law', and the hardest part of all about that is that that's a really good reason.

You can't just wave it away and call it corruption, because it's serious and legitimate and hard to argue against; the laws weren't made with the assumption that there'd be a caster who couldn't fall to Dhar-corruption, so the implicit reasons for not doing it in any circumstance aren't quite there for us, logically. Why should we force people to fight against skeleton armies when we can make the skeleton armies go away? On some level, there'd be a feeling that we chose to let those soldiers fight so that we didn't have to deal with the consequences, I think, not that skeleton armies are in any way common enough for this to come up more than maybe once or twice.

But even though every step makes sense, and they're actually good arguments, and I can still see the vote happening in the future and actually getting through and even being mostly okay with that result, it's still a little baby step further to warming our hands with geothermal energy, and socketing skulls into the walls to stop people from walking off with them, and none of us seeing anything wrong with it that we don't have an answer for.

I don't know what the baby step beyond just testing the second secret will be, but I think Boney has one in mind. There'll always be a very good reason to keep going further, and we'll probably believe them. Mathilde is the thread, and the thread is Mathilde, and no voting option will get through that at least half of everybody, and so half of Mathilde, isn't convinced they're doing for the right reason, but I'd honestly say right now that the only reason we're not already doomed is that going further costs AP.

 

[picklepikkl]

It is worth nothing that she used to fear Dhar also, not she does not as proven by herding the miscast out of Gretel's head. 'I do not fear Dhar,' explicitly, that makes her rather unique among the Colleges of Magic at least of those who have not already fallen. I'm not saying this because I want her to use Dhar, just trying to nuance the perspective.

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It helps that every Dhar-wielder she went up against before Alka-Seltzer was a complete amateur-hour chucklefuck. None of the spellcasters at either Drakenhof were any good. Between that, the Rune of Valaya on her belt, and the insight she's gained as a result of the Liber Mortis, she doesn't have a lot of reason to fear Dhar as a scary bogeyman the way other wizards might. So the fear is minimal, but the disgust and contempt remains.

 

[13th Bee]

We've seen Dwarfs placing runes to detect seismic activity from tunneling.

 

[LightLan]

We are pretty much the expert on skaven in both the Empire and Karaz Ankor. If we abandon the skaven artifacts, they will remain abandoned.

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Yup.
BoneyM said somewhere that Mathilde is the Grey Order's expert on Dwarves, Skaven and Necromancers.
Though they don't know about the Necromancer bit for good reason.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

We've seen Dwarfs placing runes to detect seismic activity from tunneling.

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Oh man, I forgot about that. Alright, problem apparently already has a solution.

 

[Fanhunter696]

Well guys here is something interesting while we wait for the update.

Everybody here would agree that the Skaven are one of the most evil races (if not the most evil race) in Warhammer... And if there is a central characteristic of them is that of Selfishness... But what is incredibly curious is that IRL rats are actually quite altruistic, and shows remarkable levels of empathy towards strangers.




If these were Skaven, the free rat would have killed the caged one and ate him.

 

[Glau]

We are pretty much the expert on skaven in both the Empire and Karaz Ankor. If we abandon the skaven artifacts, they will remain abandoned.

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Johann is working on them, he has access to all our resources. And tbh I'd prefer to abandon skaven artifacts than vitae.

It's really a comparative advantage problem, so remember: even if you are objectively better at producing everything, you still win from free trade.

 

[veekie]

Oh yeah been a while since I was caught up enough to review:

The first prototype is barely more than a bulbous metal canister with a short tube projecting from it and a pair of handholds. "The tricky part is the ammunition," Adela says, eager to show off what she's begun to learn and producing what looks like a stubby metal crossbow bolt, except the shaft is as thick as your arm and hollowed out at one end to fit snugly over the metal tube. "They've been working on shells that explode on impact, but so far it's too sensitive for gunpowder and crossbows don't supply enough propulsion. But a rapid boil should be the sweet spot."

You reserve judgement as you make your way towards the Clan Skryre defences, and as with many Skaven positions with the guards too confident (or sometimes, too terrified) to do their job, it's lit up enough to destroy the night vision of those supposed to be keeping lookout, who are in states of relaxation varying from leaning against pillars to napping with their heads on their paws. Adela stops a considerable distance away and you watch as she lines up the bolt with the tiny pool of light surrounded by darkness, and with a stir of Aqshy and an angry-sounding but surprisingly quiet hiss of steam, the projectile is fired. And three seconds later, the underground silence is shattered by an explosion as a cloud of shrapnel tears through the guards unfortunate enough to be closest to the explosion.

The guard post swarms with activity as those not currently on watch rush to investigate, and spears, swords and muskets are levelled against the darkness. But with eyes dazzled by the strange green glow Skryre lights produce, noses filled with the smell of blood and gunpowder, and ears still ringing from the explosion, none are willing to venture forth, though plenty yell at each other to do so. And Adela ignores it all, topping up the weapon from a waterskin and fitting a second bolt over the tube. You watch more thoughtfully as she fires the second time, noting no light and barely any noise, just a hiss and a puff of steam, invisible in the darkness.

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Hmm, rocket propelled steam grenade launcher seems difficult to power...but if you factor in that this is normally supposed to be hooked up to a Gyrocopter or Ironclad boiler, thats another story altogether.

I kind of wonder how precisely they manage it, steam is great at carrying energy but it tends to explode immediately if pressurized sufficiently to, or not at all.
Pressurized steam shells probably isn't it.

Hmm, maybe superheated alcohol vapor in a deoxygenated environment? Which is breached on impact and boiling pure alcohol WOULD probably add enough kick to explode the shell once it combusts.

The second explosion had the survivors rush out seeking their attacker, but none got far from the guard post, rushing about in the darkness and occasionally colliding with each other, resulting in a short, vicious brawl as they each assumed the other to be the attacker. Adela loads a third shot, but it proves unnecessary. One rat screams as another swings blindly at it with a sword, and a third yells 'Eshin' and fear floods through all of them. Almost as one they scatter in all directions, fleeing an enemy that isn't there.

Over the coming days you repeat your assaults, and they continue to unfold the same way. Skryre begins to reinforce their guard posts, which just adds more targets, and then introduce large warpstone-powered lighting mechanisms that fill the tunnels with an eerie green glow, but it doesn't outrange Adela's prototype and just gives her something else to shoot. This approach only comes to an end when they begin to light every inch of the tunnels their guard posts are facing with torches, and an experiment with Move proves that even a single one being knocked to the ground results in a volley of jezzail fire from snipers. You call the experiment a success there, and though there wasn't much loot to be found, you did get a few different sets of written communication.

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You can definitely see here that Skryre is incredibly paranoid about Eshin, more so than just bordering them alone should account for. The best part is when they ran into the darkness while light-blind, attacked each other, saw that it was a Skaven and declared Eshin.

Mathilde is hamming it up, Skryre is utterly convinced by the end that they're being assaulted by Eshin.

With the prototype having proven itself and Clan Skryre having developed countermeasures to how you were using it, you move on to the second prototype, which is based on a much more proven design you've heard of but not seen in person - the Drakegun, used by the Ironbreakers of Zhufbar to fire a pressurized stream of burning liquid. This variation might have been inspired by the defences of your penthouse, because instead of a combination of alchemy and precision engineering, this one uses simple plumbing and Adela's magic to fire a narrow jet of superheated steam. After the success of the previous prototype you give this one the benefit of the doubt, but considering the much smaller range of this one and the heightened alertness of the Skaven, you resolve to be significantly pickier about targets.

Several days pass with failed approaches, and Adela impresses you by not arguing with or complaining about you erring on the side of safety, and not long after you get the chance you were looking for as an unlit side-passage takes you within a stone's throw of a guard post. You take a moment to check for possible reinforcements, make sure that the sniper position behind the guard post didn't have an angle on you, and make sure your path of retreat was appropriate. You give Adela a tap on her shoulder, and she takes a deep breath, rolls her shoulders to rebalance the weight of the water tank strapped to her back, and levels something halfway between a trumpet and a rifle at the unsuspecting rats. Aqshy stirs, water hisses, and far from the silent firing of the previous prototype, this one immediately results in the mingling cacophony of the shriek of escaping steam and the screams of those exposed to it. You've seen a lot of death in battle, but it still takes some mental effort to close your ears to the screams, your nose to the smell of boiling flesh, and your heart to the new form of suffering you're helping to invent.

As Adela turns the weapon on the first Skaven to recover from surprise and charge at her, the limitations of the weapon immediately becomes clear, because the steam takes precious seconds to penetrate through fur to the flesh beneath. By the time that would-be attacker was incapacitated by agony, three more are closing.

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Okay...this is the sort of weapon that'd be great if you had two inches of steel between you and your target. It'd be great for blasting swarms getting around your weapon without actually setting yourself on fire.

But its not a good infantry weapon unless fighting a heavily armored target, nevermind getting enough hot steam to use it with, the amount projected could substantially quench a full size boiler even.
Its also horrifically inhumane in how slow it kills, but I imagine the dwarves consider it a plus against their ancient grudges.

You reach out and grab Adela by a backpack, yanking her behind you and back into the narrow side-tunnel as Branulhune appears in your spare hand. The Skaven charge on regardless, only to be met by a low sweep that cleaves two of them in half at the waist. The third didn't quite manage to close the remaining distance before you had pulled back from the swing, and his momentum impales himself on the blade, screaming in pain and hatred as other Skaven close in, no doubt hoping to take advantage of your stuck weapon. Your revolver in your offhand accounts for two more, and an eager leap from another becomes doomed as Branulhune disappears from within the dying Skaven's chest and reappears in your hand in time to cleave it out of the air. You grimace as blood splatters against you, but the moment of hesitation that it gives you allows you to summon and shape Ulgu. Between one instant and the next, you go from merely intimidating to supernaturally terrifying to the remaining Skaven, an impression only reinforced as the shadow cast by the warpstone lights reaches out to latch onto the head of the nearest foe. The unfortunate Skaven thrashes in its grip, trying in vain to free itself from a force intangible to its claws but all too tangible to its face.

As the remaining Skaven flee screaming into the darkness, you reholster your revolver, dismiss Branulhune, and take a handkerchief from your pocket to wipe the blood from your face.

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Mathilde assets dominance...the force choke is a nice touch.

...and it occurs to me that since Eshin Sorcerors can use Ulgu you can't assume that its human because it looks human. Doppleganger exists.

Though the prototype didn't do quite as well with this second round, the loot was significantly better. More attention on defences meant higher-ranking leadership, which meant more papers, letters, and even an armful of books from an ambitious foray into a supply depot, which got too much attention to actually take any supplies, but you did manage to get away with a significant number of books from a chieftain's quarters. You also haul out one of the Skryre lighting mechanisms, consisting of a glass tube and a set of wires leading to a large metal contraption.

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That sounds like a lightbulb and generator.

Adela passes on any claim to any of the Queekish writings, instead opting to share the credit of the lighting mechanism with you. You offer to make it hers alone, but she declines, even when you make it clear it could take some time for you to be able to investigate it. Apparently she thinks having your name and hers on the same paper will be good for her career.

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Mmm, well I'm PRETTY sure the lightbulb isn't solvable by her on her own either. You want Breach the Unknown to figure it out without dismantling it and breaking it in the process.

Still, good for us, she's volunteering to share stuff.

Just as Skryre reinforce their front lines enough to prevent any more strikes on them, you and Johann slip right past them all to instead poke around their vulnerable core. They were carefully watching every underground entrance to Karag Zilfin and had fortified the gates to the caldera, but Karag Zilfin had once been the most densely-populated part of the Karak. With the help of your makeshift magical telescope you had identified a dozen solid candidates for entry, and though you passed over two flues and a natural fissure for being worryingly narrow, a fourth turned out to have once been a balcony, eroded over the centuries until it looked once more like natural rock. Clan Skryre were nervous enough of the Ice Dragon to keep to the lowest parts of the mountain, but they didn't actively defend against it.

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This kind of bodes well for long term getting along with the dragon, if Skryre thought they didn't need to fortify the boundary zone at all, or keep a watch. Some sort of non-interference pact should be fine.

Also I had a brief christmassy thought of Mathilde infiltrating through a chimney, before realizing that doing THAT in a Skryre lair is suicide unless you're Johann.

The innermost part of Clan Mors' territory somewhat resembled the military camps of more conventional surface forces, but Clan Skryre is very different. At first it seems like a haphazard sprawl, but further investigation and careful mapping reveals the underlying logic. Three Warlock-Engineers and two prominent Chieftains each stake out their own territory, with just as many defences pointing at each other as they have guarding against the rest of the Karak. You know enough about Skaven to know that if there was a single commanding figure they'd be the sole nexus and wouldn't tolerate any other power blocs, so you conclude that their Warlord or Warlock-Master must be either dead or elsewhere.

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Thats a Five. I'm guessing one pair of Chieftain to Warlock Engineer, and one Warlock-Engineer in the middle making bank being bribed not to join the other side.

And my guess, along with Skryre's Eshin-paranoia, is probably Eshin Assassin did some destablizing. Hard to say for sure.

The first target was one you had agreed would be top priority: the chaotic alchemical laboratory that sprawled across what was once the greatest forge of Karak Eight Peaks, most likely dedicated to the production of poison gas used by Clan Skryre's Globadiers. Johann has no need to breathe and you can render yourself insubstantial and have a crystal candle tucked into a carefully-padded pouch, so the risk is very much worth the possible prize: the breathing apparatus worn by the Globadiers. Unfortunately, it's as crawling with Skaven as it is filled with bubbling chemicals, and you and Johann spend some time debating how to infiltrate and exfiltrate unseen.

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Thats a bloody huge lab. Enough gas to gas a mountain if need be.

Huh...were they planning to use that to clear the Trench?

"Maybe we're approaching this wrong," Johann says thoughtfully. "We're not actually relying on going completely unnoticed, are we?"

"Only try to ghost it when it's one objective, in and out," you confirm. "Otherwise you're counting on too many variables."

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Sound advice for infiltration but...

"So, how about this. You grab a mask and a canister and anything else that catches your interest, then either sneak out or run if they spot you. Once you're out of the room, I go in and punch anything glass."

You open your mouth to object, then consider it some more. "Surely there must be some reason this is a terrible idea."

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...what she said.

Johann must have been ITCHING to use his new Antimaterial Martial Arts.

Nevertheless, the next day finds you and Johann lurking just outside the Grand Forge. Apart from the flames flickering under various alembics and calcinators and even more obscure equipment, the main source of light are a pair of enormous glass globes dangling from massive chains wrapped with wires, both filled with roiling chemicals of some description that glow with an almost white light, with only a slight green tinge giving everything a sickly pallor.

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...hey, those are florescent lights aren't they?
I guess for all that Skaven prefer darkness, you just plain don't want to have poor lighting when handling volatiles.

You check the equipment you're targeting is still where you last saw it and nobody's nearby, then you nod to Johann, take a deep breath, and wrap your mind around the most complicated piece of magic you've ever cast in the field. Shadows solidify into jet-black blades, and at the exact instant they begin to shoot upwards, you're no longer in the doorway but already wrapping one arm around a gas canister and the other around the leather and metal facemask. Definitely too heavy to add any bonus acquisitions, so just as the Shadow Knives are about to punch through one of the glowing orbs, you concentrate on the other, fire off a second volley and once more you're in the shadows of the doorway.

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That gas is definitely for Johann to work on.
All testing by someone who doesn't need to breathe, and has spells to perform spectrometric analysis on touch.

As the sound of shattering glass and shrieks of alarm fill the air, you take off at a charge one way as Johann does the other, and the first massive glass cauldron is shattered by a golden fist just moments after the second globe is shattered too, and more and more shouts and shattering fills your ears, only fading as you turn a corner and start to climb a set of stairs.

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Also it occurs to me that Skryre uses a MONSTROUS amount of glass.
Large glass constructions SHOULD be very hard to make and transport, but here we have massive glass cauldrons.

More than that, its refractory glass, and probably tempered glass too, if its getting heated.

After stashing your first prize you meet Johann at the first rendezvous, and Johann joins you only a few minutes later, splattered with a variety of unknown liquids and trailing a horrible chemical melange.

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So...who's the one with the fog arcane mark again?

He'd deliberately worn his tattiest and most replaceable set of clothes for this, and you take his hand and with careful concentration, render him and only him insubstantial with Substance of Shadow, and he disappears from your mundane sight as clothes and liquids fall to the ground with a splatter, and you politely avert your eyes as you summon a Marsh Light to illuminate him and he changes into his normal robes.

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She definitely got a good view with Windsage. Don't need to be facing the target with her meat eyes. Not when its so well defined in magic.

Handholding

Infighting and the stench of chemicals spreads from the Grand Forge at a roughly equal rate, and amidst the sheer chaos of it all it's impossible to go completely unseen, but very easy to simply stab or punch unconscious anyone who does see you.

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I kind of wonder at this point what kind of gas it is.
Something like Black Lotus? Or just poisonous? Or heck, given that it was a Five, did the smog do nothing more than cut visibility and everything collapsed into Fours and Twos?

You put your faith in Ranald and target the currently unreadable contents of a Warlock-Engineer's personal library while Johann had his eye on the same poor Skaven's workshop, and while you both emerge with all the reading material you can dream of - and carry for that matter, necessitating multiple trips - and have an enormous amount of accumulated correspondence, orders, ledgers and notes, you also come away with a completely unexpected prize: a small but oddly heavy orb of interlocking brass cogs. Unless you're very much mistaken, this is one of the horrifying but intriguing Brass Orbs, a thrown weapon which forcibly tears open reality to suck in anyone unfortunate enough to be nearby.

Once more, the division of loot is straightforward: Johann gets the blueprints, schematics and tools, you get the papers and books, and you share the breathing apparatus. Johann wants nothing to do with the Brass Orb.

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The writing is a big boon of language, though I suspect the tools themselves are a massive benefit too, because well think, how far are you going to get with dismantling something secured with a socket wrench bolt without sawing it open and breaking it?

The Brass Orb was probably anti-dragon insurance. Shame if it vanished somewhere.

Instead of a daily trickle of messages, you test the waters of working openly with Qrech and find him far more enthusiastic about getting to see inside the inner workings of the secretive Skryre than he is uncomfortable working with you, if he has any misgivings at all remaining. Working with him directly allows you to fill in the gaps in your lexicon at a rapid rate, and though you're not entirely confident in the consistency checks you've been doing as you go further and further into technical terminology, you're fairly sure he's too engrossed with the reading to be lying to you.

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Well, he's Moulder. He's, from our past discussion, a scholar in his own right. Given the opportunity of course he'd nerd out.

The books from the Chieftain at the supply depot were a mix of logistical manuals and recreational reading, largely consisting of surprisingly detailed descriptions of various battles, some against other races but most focused on skirmishes between one Clan and another, but some of a more familiar sort where the protagonist uses cunning and skill to defeat their enemies and get the... girl? Some of them have the victor rewarded with access to or possession of Breeders, but some have more conventional love interests in the form of one or more 'regular' Skaven only female, usually with some plot contrivance to guarantee their loyalty.

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Skaven romances, but given that this seems to be regular Skaven literature, it PROBABLY confirms that Breeders are artificial and Skaven can breed the regular way if they had to sustain a cut off population.

Heck, might be worth some psychological insight.
What a people think constitutes romance tells you quite abit about how their priorities are oriented, culturally.

You put that enigma aside and turn to the Warlock-Engineer's personal library, and find complete uniformity. Every single book is on mechanical devices, and the only variable is whether or not the devices utilize warpstone. While that doesn't help your translation project much, as you flip from ratling gun to warpfire thrower to doomwheel, you start to realize the enormity of what you've acquired.

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Codex of Skaven Engineering.
This is going to be one massive research project in its own right.

Heck, Adela knows part of the process to Windstones, might be worth running some of these past her to see whether substitutes might be made.

I suspect for weapons Aqshy and Azyr stones might substitute easily enough

You don't have long to dwell on that. Even when you're focused on building the Queekish-Khazalid dictionary, word filters in of any unusual activity in the Karak, and it's been seen from Clan Skryre. Rangers have found they've pulled back from the area they'd claimed, tightening their defensive perimeter considerably. They also report that an acrid chemical whiff is spreading throughout the underway closest to Karag Zilfin. Worrying, but less so than if that chemical nightmare had occurred mid-battle on a Dwarven position. And as you skim through your accumulated translations, you realize that the new guard posts were a previously-prepared fall-back point, which is described in exact detail in one of the stolen reports.

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So looking at this with a fresher perspective, it looks like MAYBE some of the chemical spills were mistaken for sabotage and assault, and promptly retaliated against until you have a clusterfuck of backstabs and inadvisably applied chemical weapons.

But they still are organized, seeing as they have an organized fallback to secondary posts.

And just as you're starting to consider what that could allow, a deep roar of reptilian fury echoes through the mountains.

From the windows of your Entrance Hall, you can immediately see the cause: perched atop the frozen peak of Karag Zilfin is an enormous pure-white dragon, clawing at its face and roaring in distress. Then with a single gesture of its claw, you see and hear and feel and somehow taste pure Hysh thrumming through the air, and the dragon stills, its head swinging this way and that as it takes in the mountains. Then with another roar - this one very clearly not of reactive, surprised anger, but the low, reverberating roar of a promise of terrible vengeance - it climbs headfirst down the side of the near-vertical face of Karag Zilfin and disappears back into the mountain.

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So dragon was asleep, and got woken up by toxic mess in the eyes, and was generically furious. Then looks like it cast a healing spell, calmed down and figured out whodunit.

Though I wonder how powerful the spell is if we could taste it all the way opposite the Caldera from it. Is it casting the Battle Magic versions or is Mathilde's Windsage improving?

You don't know much of Dwarven flag signals, but you know enough.

The Citadel is flying three banners and one signal, the banner of the Karak, which is always there, then the banner of Clan Donarkhun, and then Clan Angrund and the number one. So King Kazador and Thane Halken Stonebeard. You turn your attention to Karag Lhune, which flies... oh. Clan Grimbrow, and the number one. The Thane of the Karak Izor immigrants is the highest-ranking Dwarf there. You turn to Karagril; Clan Grimbrow and the Rune of Gazul. Princess Edda and Gunnars. The Kvinn-Wyr wall, zero. Eastern Gates, zero. And you look up at Karag Nar, and see the watchtower flag of the Undumgi and, below that, the black and silver of House Weber.

At each of the flags, a Dwarf or a man with a telescope is making the same comparison you are. The Citadel's flags dip, and in their place is the simple flag for 'acknowledged'. The same from Karag Lhune. Karagril. The Eastern Gates. The Kvinn-Wyr Wall.

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Having a little difficulty parsing the flag signals. What does the 1 mean here?

Representing force led by second in command?

Dwarven law is utterly unambiguous when it comes to things like this. King Belegar has absolute authority in military matters. In his absence, it would be Dreng. Then Prince Gotri. And after the military Councillors, next in line is the Loremaster.

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I wondered how often the contingency actually gets called upon...but it makes sense. On major campaigns, the King and at least one of the military advisors would go with him, which leaves one military advisor and the Loremaster at home.

Loremasters tend to be at home doing research of some sort much of the time, are usually familiar with tactics and weaponry(either Engineer or Runepriest). As good a fallback as any.
Then after the loremaster, the high priest is usually not knowledgable in tactics(unless your hold has Grimnir as high priest), but IS usually highly skilled in personal combat and packing serious gear.

After THAT is probably the Steward as leader of the militia, and the Diplomat last because really you don't expect your diplomat to be home when you get attacked.

[Karag Mhonar ???: Req 50, 53+10(???)=63.]
[Karag Rhyn Broken Toof: Breakpoints 30/70, 69+10(crowded)+10(love a good fight)=89.]
[Karag Rhyn Crooked Moon: Breakpoints 30/70, 2+10(crowded)+10(love a good fight)=22.]
[Karak Drazh: Breakpoints 30/90, 89+10(reconquest)+10(Mors distracted)+10(love a good fight)=119.]
[Kvinn-Wyr: <20 go east, >80 go west: 84.]

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Something interesting here, theres a 90% chance that the Crooked Moon would come out...but they didn't. Wonder how that worked out narratively.
Also Kvinn-Wyr, bless Ranald, was 20% Bad Result, 60% Status Quo, 20% Good Result. We got the Good.

"Right," you say to the tragically anaemic Council of War. "The Ice Dragon has awoken, and is attacking Clan Skryre. According to our Rangers, Clan Mors is taking advantage of this to launch an all-out attack on Clan Eshin. King Belegar is off dealing with some hilariously misguided Border Princes who decided to take up piracy, and both Dreng and Prince Gotri," you nod to King Kazador, who's grinning in anticipation, "are at Karak Azul. So, by what is apparently ancient and completely ironclad law and precedent, the Loremaster has full military authority. Does anyone disagree?"

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Well now, I suppose the EIC caravan escorts might have proven useful.

Dreng and Gotri are off acquiring more dakka IIRC.

You look from King Kazador, who's still grinning, to Kragg, who's scowl is only his default scowl, so you take that as approval, to Gunnars, who merely nods placidly. Okay.

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Kazador doin an excite.
Boy, he's got NO idea whats coming.

There's a familiar groan of rope and timber, and you refrain from sighing as you listen to the growing chorus of stones and bolts being launched and count down the seconds until- "My-" the Dwarf hesitates, unsure of a proper title. "Loremaster?"

"Thane," you say. And you would always be, from now on. Dwarves didn't believe in temporary titles.

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Field promotion!
With the explanation I think the closest analogue to human ranks is basically a knighting, you have the authority to lead and command a force.

"My Thane," he says, glad to be on firm ground. "The Broken Toof greenskins are sallying out of Karag Rhyn."

"Destination?"

"Everywhere," he says. "Some into Yar and Zilfin, some are heading towards the Citadel, some are trying to cross the caldera to Karagril."

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I still wonder whatever made them think this was a good idea.
Could be that the Broken Toof were bottled up too long and didn't have a single warleader, they just charged out of frustration.

"Thank you," you say, and he salutes and leaves. "Okay, that complicates matters, but-" A faint blast, no less familiar than the other noises. Then another, then two more, then a continuous rolling blasting. You let out the sigh this time, and wait slightly longer as news travels up a Karagril flagpole.

"My Thane!" says the same Dwarf, slightly out of breath. "The Red Fang greenskins are sallying out of Karak Drazh and west down Death Pass!"

"West?"

"Yes, they confirmed it."

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West is highly unusual. Why wouldn't they take the shortest path, unless they wanted into Zilfin more than they want Karagril this time.

Having given the orders, there's nothing else to do but wait for them to play out, as you stare out an arrow slit down at the caldera, and at the thousands of Orcs and Goblins charging in every direction in a disorganized attempt to find a new home for themselves. To the North, a steady but muffled beat of gunpowder discharges are all the evidence you can see of the defence of Karagril, but the defence of the Citadel is entirely visible to you. And despite the rain of assorted missiles from siege weapons and Halflings, they charge enthusiastically onward, and a clanging of metal is added to the din as they do their best to make their way through the reinforced gates.

[Citadel vs Orcs: 41+15+20(firing position)+10(siege weapons)=86 vs 90+10+20(WAAAGH)=120.]
[How equipped are they to get through?: 23.]
[Karagril defence: rolling...]

There's no denying their enthusiasm, but Dwarven fortifications takes more than Orcish muscle and crude iron to batter it down, and every second they remain at the base of the Citadel is another volley scything through them and another step closer the Undumgi reinforcements come. You scowl down at the greenskins, wishing there was more for you to do than wait for your orders to play out, but such is the curse of command.

[Citadel vs Orcs: 93+15+20(firing position)+10(siege weapons)=138 vs 7+10+20(WAAAGH)=37.]
[Greenskin morale check: 4.]
[Karagril defence: rolling...]
[Karag Yar defence: rolling...]
[Karag Zilfin defence: rolling...]

By the time the Undumgi arrive, the greenskins have realized their strategic blunder and retreated from the gates they had no way to get through, and news reaches you of Karagril via the agonizingly slow and imprecise flag signals. They say there were initial setbacks, but then the enemy were defeated and ran. Judging by the flow of greenskins out of Karags Yar and Zilfin, they did no better there than they did against Karagril or the Citadel, and now the Broken Toof are milling about the far end of the caldera, and already several brawls had broken out over who should be blamed and who should take charge. Eventually some sort of a decision is made...

[Rolling...]

...and the badly-mauled greenskins turn right back around and charge into Karag Rhyn, where they had initially poured from. You shake your head in exasperation at the sheer pointlessness of their actions.

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#Yakety Sax

The Karagril situation, from the description, sounded like someone fucked up and either forgot to seal a gate, or was stuck outside when the orcs arrived?
Or did the former Ironbreakers forget that they weren't wearing full Gromril suits anymore?

Hopefully the involved party doesn't go Slayer over that.

[Clan Mors vs Clan Eshin: Martial vs Intrigue, 95+20+10(Desperation)+10(Preparation)=135 vs 28+25+20(Heavy Preparations)=73.]
[Opportunity? Intrigue: 88+22+5(Tactics - Skaven)=115.]

As you make your way deeper into Under-Karag Yar, you regret more and more that you missed the opening stages of this battle as you piece together the duelling artistry on display: the martial brilliance of the Warlord of Clan Mors, and the mastery of assymetrical warfare from whoever rules this outpost of Clan Eshin. You pass the results of innumerable ambushes, volleys, poisonings, explosions, betrayals, rockfalls, pits of sharpened stakes, and unleashed monsters on your way deeper into Under-Karag Yar, and though every one of them reaped a toll from the attackers, they certainly didn't stop them, and more and more of the piled corpses are wearing the tight-fitting cloth and leather of Night and Gutter Runners instead of the rags of Clanrats and the metal plate of Stormvermin.

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This is worth a book on its own if we could sit through it all.


...wait.
Where did Eshin get monsters for this special event?

You finally reach the ongoing battle, which by your estimate is about a quarter of the way towards the center of Clan Eshin's territory, and under cover of invisibility and intangibility you take in the entire scattered line of battle. Instead of the hit-and-run they prefer, Clan Eshin have been forced to match blade against blade, and though each of the Gutter Runners are carving through at least five times their number before falling, discipline and number are winning out against sheer skill.

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Eshin is relatively weak in a straight Mors-style fight.
Inverse Ninja Law in action?

Gutter Runners sound like they're probably the bane of dwarf and human forces, just as skilled line troops, but theres 2-3 of them to each of yours.
Just less effective in a press, because their lighter armor and higher agility isn't going to do shit then.

You witness the terrifying sight of multiple Eshin assassins working in concert, as a trio of the elite of Clan Eshin tear through scores of Stormvermin before melting away before guns or a swarm of Clanrats can be deployed.

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Eshin trio. A Genin Team?
Can't control a pair of assassins, they'd kill each other.
A trio has all of them on watch for the other two, but if you kill one it'd become one soon enough.

Their effectiveness is quite shocking, with shredding through Stormvermin like that. Not much good against clanrats though. An Assassin is the same as a Gutter Runner when it comes to DPS against clanrats.

Reminds me of the Kamaitachi myth.
Three weasels, swift as the wind. The first to stun you, the second to cut you, the third to numb the pain so you don't know you were struck.

You also see in person something the Colleges still debate the existence of: an Eshin Sorcerer, a blur of shifting colours as it tears through armour and flesh with a crystal blade in one claw and projecting clouds of putrid smoke and envenomed sparks of magical energy with the other.

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Thats another paper. If its still debated, first hand eyewitness should be educational.

Anyone can identify the spells and weapons? I don't know much about Eshin spells.

...it ALSO occurs to me that Qrech was being literal when he called Mathilde Eshinzhufi. The Eshin sorceror is a hard-to-track blur that kills with what looks like a super keen sword.
It fights like Mathilde does.

It's not your best infiltration and you're certain it wouldn't suffice under normal circumstances, but while Eshin were sneaky, they usually aren't subtle, and you take your lack of sudden assault as a sign you've evaded notice.

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Mathilde isn't one to be subtle either. Very sneaky, results are less subtle than confounding.

[Loot finding: Intrigue, 82+22=104.]
[Rolling...]

If you had been able to spend weeks or months on the task as you had when raiding the other Clans, you'd know in advance where to go and what you'd expect to find. With mere minutes to spend before you need to turn around or risk the entire battle, you fall back on luck, guts, and wild guesses.

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Ranald: "The Gacha has been primed."

The Eshin settlement seems much more orderly than that of Clan Mors, cleaner than Clan Moudler and less obviously riven by internal intrigue that Clan Skryre, but some things transcend Clan and you go straight for the largest structure you encounter, confident that it will belong to someone important.

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Makes sense in general. More loot, more places to stuff loot, more ability to distance from other Skaven and reduce the risk of a Klingon Promotion.

The room within is a bizarre clash between two rival styles, with one half of the room seeming to aspire to monkish asceticism while the other is a haphazard sprawl of books and paperwork not much different to that of human bureaucrats and officers you've seen.

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...ascetic/vow of poverty and a huge pile of books.
This is Eshin Master Assassin's room isn't it?

You empty the shelves that would be at eye-level for a Skaven, reasoning that they'd be the most often consulted ones, and pile atop those all the paperwork you can haphazardly stack atop each other. Your recent forays had lead you to keeping a hessian bag folded up inside an inner pocket, and you spare the few seconds it takes to stack the books neatly inside it instead of piling them up haphazardly. Opening up the possibility of having an operation go badly because of bulky, difficult-to-carry loot is a rookie mistake.

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Displayed here is the sight of someone who has had fish jump into her boat so often she's got everything you need to prepare and grill fish that jump aboard.

Skill: Looting.

In the handful of seconds you get before the Ranger reports start coming in, you skim through your loot. Your confidence in learning written Queekish takes a blow until you realize that the books aren't written in it. Cathayan, perhaps?

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About the main things I could see them bringing in Cathayan are probably instructional manuals and maybe some recreational reading.

You put them aside for later and skim instead through the paperwork, which turns out to be a series of updates from various corners of the world, detailing the hidden war within the Under-Empire. You burn with curiousity, but since none of it is immediately applicable, you're likewise forced to put it aside.

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Whatever else, the guy we robbed is important if they had these reports at their disposal. They're connected, not just locally.

I'd LOVE to see what Algard and Heidi could do with translated copies of these.

On the other hand, the news from Kvinn-Wyr is a lot less straightforward. For reasons unknown, most of the trolls have deserted the peak, heading west towards Karag Mhonar and leaving only the river trolls in the vast cisterns and the ones twisted by warpstone exposure still jealously guarding their treasure near the peak. Having the option of repositioning the Kvinn-Wyr Wall bolt throwers is a definite plus, but you don't like having one more unknown factor at play in this chaotic mess of a battle.

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Anyone knows about the traits of these trolls?
Kind of curious, the warpgut clinging to the warpstone boulder makes sense but why don't the river trolls want to leave, and for the matter, how did they even get here? No rivers leading in that I know of

Secondly...first I heard of Kvinn-Wyr's cisterns. I guess this is the other primary water source for Eighr Peaks? Karagril and Kvinn-Wyr together should have ready water supply for their neighboring peaks.

There's some sort of argument among them you're being very careful to stay out of as Princess Edda takes command over the objections of the force's Thane - all Dwarf women are trained for combat, but it's believed they should only take the field under the direst of circumstances. It's a messy debate, but Princess Edda seems to have it well in hand.

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I'm curious what motivated her to take the field. Maybe something for the social turn.
Currently on the docket:
-Delivering the Good News to Algard
-Belegar's Reaction to what the fuckity fuck fuck.
-Anton's Factory opening
-???
-???

Clan Angrund needed only the order to start marching, and you doubt they'll ever be a problem - they tend towards the more conservative sorts which often spells trouble for you, but much more than that they're hyper-focused on the reclamation of Eight Peaks, so as you continue to deliver results on that front, you could be an Ogre for all they cared.

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A Lore of Shadow Ogre would be kind of scary.
Still, Angrund's probably never going to be happier with Mathilde than they are now. The whole warpath validates them greatly.

Though both Abelhelm and King Belegar tended to lead from the front, you resist the urge to follow their example and instead position yourself as centrally as possible to be the nexus of incoming information and outgoing orders. The unexpected blitz from above takes the few defenders remaining by complete surprise, and their entire line of defence collapses almost at once, and the crossbows of Karak Izor and Braganza's Besiegers ensured that it didn't help reduce casualties. You also know that not all those that escaped the quarrels would be reinforcing the Under-Caldera, because you'd had a word with the We on your way past, and though the concept of warfare was still beyond them, they understood opportunity.

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"Hey guys theres going to be all-you-can-eat while we occupy all possible response forces."

Stopped at this point owing to a need to sleep. Will continue in the morning.