Oh, I see, I thought he was arguing to hand Qrech the book and ask him to translate.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Oh, I see, I thought he was arguing to hand Qrech the book and ask him to translate.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
One is a strategy that BoneyM said could work, the other is pure speculation. This isn't me disparaging the idea, but I personally don't think it's as good.
However, BoneyM has said that we can ask him to get Mathilde's opinion on any lie we'd use with the Deciever so your best strategy is to make a post summarizing the deception, tagging him and waiting until he responds.
Noted.
@BoneyM
Would using the deceiver to tell Qrech we only want him to translate the book for the information inside (which wot course we want the Queekish Rosetta Stone, so it's a lie) be a valid lie?
For the rest, I'm not against the current plan; I just think it's an all-or-nothing. I don't see what we lose by going with the book first, given we can go with the other plot second (possibly in the same turn, if he just say no to translating the book).
I just prefer trying something less risky as a first attempt.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
IMO Qrech has two motivations:
1) His fear of/loyalty to the Horned Rat/Under-Empire
2) His continued existence and comfort.
The "We have Queekish already" plan removes us learning Queekish from being hindered by 1, appeals to 1 by screwing over the traitor clans and appeals to 2 because we'll be more inclined to keeping him alive and comfortable if he's coorperative.
The lie here is that Queekish is a minor concession on his part. Important to us, but not to the empire. It's possible depending on the lie that we can't come back to this point but this isn't just a trick we'd be trying. This is going to be our strategy over the next six months and potentially beyond.
Mathilde isn't going to flip to the Deceiver, drop in one day and go "Here's what I want and why you should give it to me. Believe it!" She's going to be planting ideas over weeks and months. It's not a matter of him believing a statement from us. It's a matter of him "figuring it out".
1) His fear of/loyalty to the Horned Rat/Under-Empire
2) His continued existence and comfort.
The "We have Queekish already" plan removes us learning Queekish from being hindered by 1, appeals to 1 by screwing over the traitor clans and appeals to 2 because we'll be more inclined to keeping him alive and comfortable if he's coorperative.
The lie here is that Queekish is a minor concession on his part. Important to us, but not to the empire. It's possible depending on the lie that we can't come back to this point but this isn't just a trick we'd be trying. This is going to be our strategy over the next six months and potentially beyond.
Mathilde isn't going to flip to the Deceiver, drop in one day and go "Here's what I want and why you should give it to me. Believe it!" She's going to be planting ideas over weeks and months. It's not a matter of him believing a statement from us. It's a matter of him "figuring it out".
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Yes, though it would likely lead him to think Mathilde short-sighted.
- Location
- Australia
Before we deceive him using the 'our rivals already have Queekish' plan, we should press Qrech on the promise of service he gave to us. Like, he straight up said he'd work for us, and giving us Queekish falls into that. I don't know of any skaven who'd overtly break a promise they made to someone who has unimpeachable power of life and death over them.
Except being told we already have it doesn't remove 1, because it's not "don't teach anyone Queekish who doesn't already know it it", it's "don't teach anyone Queekish" period.
You're straight up asking him to betray his god.
I just prefer trying something less risky first. I don't care if he thinks of us as short-sighted (if he underestimates us, it's on him).
If you think my idea wrong (and you're totally allowed to), can you bring something else to the table that isn't all-or-nothing?
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
He promised petty service, not a massive breach of his race's infosec.
A thought occurs: Wouldn't analyzing the whisker movements and pheremone release when he's speaking Khazalid provide patterns to that particular portion of the language?
This is not a very constructive comment. Do you have suggestions or critique? Personally I'm always interested in both.
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Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
i know it not constructive but every time some one try to come up with some plan using the Deceiver coin, Boney point out the issue that kinda obvious and i just feel like banging my head against the wall at people just throwing stuff at the wall willy nilly
Lady blessed Knights going Shadow of the Colossus?
That's really not how I see it, I mean sure there are weaknesses, but 'no plan is perfect' is not equivalent to 'everyone is stupid'.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Getting the individual you're interrogating to underestimate your abilities isn't a bad thing.
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Maybe instead of being condescending about it you should... you know... actually fucking contribute to the conversation.
- Location
- between Venus and Mars
You say that like it's a bad thing. I'm all for the creature that makes hobgoblins look trustworthy underestimating us because he thinks we're stupid.
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
not trying to sound condescending
i don't even know how to do that sort of tone
and contribute ?
what would i know about any of this shit
i'm part of the mindless mass of number below who only here to read and vote for the plan actual smart people make
(Been going through some older tabs, and...)
So instead of "this will literally save lives, so we must take the risk" the argument started off with a "Hey wouldn't it be cool if..."
I mean, heck, I liked that post and thought it was cool but no way in hell would I want to take that risk. Or think that we'd need to take it.
Well this comment aged amusingly. Said on October 29. I think it was several days later that the first posts bringing up the idea of Kvinn-Wyr and Substance of Shadow started coming up... A first mention on November 2 according to search, then the more memorable came on November 4. It was a purely "I know this is totally unfeasible, but it'd be cool and amusing if it worked..." post but which nevertheless still started that discussion rolling anyway.
So instead of "this will literally save lives, so we must take the risk" the argument started off with a "Hey wouldn't it be cool if..."
I mean, heck, I liked that post and thought it was cool but no way in hell would I want to take that risk. Or think that we'd need to take it.
Huh, maybe let's craft a set of lies/half-truths that doesn't immediately benefit interrogation target, but puts us in a better position? I.e.:
- we will always follow through on promises if we can help it
- we're not very smart
- he can win us over and convince us to let him go if he really tries
- we're the single person that stands between him and the dwarves pushing for death/torture
- suicide is pointless, we've got a spell to prevent it
- he only harms his enemies by helping us
- his secrets are not really secrets, it's just Mathilde who hasn't got clearance
-...
@BoneyM is it a good set to help interrogation?
- we will always follow through on promises if we can help it
- we're not very smart
- he can win us over and convince us to let him go if he really tries
- we're the single person that stands between him and the dwarves pushing for death/torture
- suicide is pointless, we've got a spell to prevent it
- he only harms his enemies by helping us
- his secrets are not really secrets, it's just Mathilde who hasn't got clearance
-...
@BoneyM is it a good set to help interrogation?
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Okay, bullshit. There isn't a tenant of the Horned Rat that goes "Don't teach anyone Queekish." It's simply a matter of mundane opsec not divine providence.
And I don't think it's all or nothing. You do. I think it's a good strategy we can use to convince him to cooperate. One we can continue with for as many turns as we want.
You may also be happy to project weakness, but I'm not. The point is to reduce mischief not increase it.
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The more lies you tell, the harder it is to keep them all straight.