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As a suggestion, what the Elves may not need in physical goods they'd probably enjoy in entertainment. I bet someone could make a killing translating fiction the Asur had never encountered before, trashy romance novels and all.
There is also market control viva gating. A lot of the buying and selling power of the elves comes from the rarity and quality of their goods. That helps keep the elves richly rich and make people dance for the right to trade with them.

Not powerful in the USA, Russia China sense.

But super powerful in the EU sense.

And because of the differently of power projection in a time without rapid deployment...

The EU sense might be more practical.

(Yes, I'm really pushing for a reason, but the only thing that actually makes sense is that the elf traders that are allowed to trade think that they will become less powerful if the monopoly is broken and so lobby and blackmail and stab to keep things the way it is. Greed over the good of the world basically.)
 
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@BoneyM did Mathilde see Kasmir when she visited Roswita?

No, but she did ask. Apparently he showed up for just long enough to get his new title and then went back out looking for more Vampires. Him and Roswita are exchanging letters as he gives her a crash course on the political realities of the upper echelons of the Sigmarite church.

And how was the other hardliner witch hunter taking the presence of all the wizards?

He's got his opinions but he's also got survival instincts, and he can recognize what fights it's better not to have. Included in this category is 'any fight whatsoever that pits you against double digits of Battle Wizards'.
 
"We can just get it next turn for free, though!" That is true, we could -- at the expense of getting Antiquarian in something else. If we go into snake juice research after next turn, Antiquarian Chemistry would be pretty nice, for example. We aren't actually saving 2 Favour this way; we just delay the inevitable moment we give in and spend non-subsidized Favour, and get -1 to our skaven rolls in the meantime. If we have other uses for that Favour in the meantime, that's great! But I don't think we do.
I find this quite flawed as an counter-argument.

Yes, getting Esoteric later will block getting Antiquarian on something else. But that's a rabbit hole that never ever ends.

Not only that, but the same applies to spending it on what you want, rather on some other thing down the line.

There will always be something else.

It furthermore fails in not considering that we could always just burn our personal favor then, to get that desperately needed whatever at the point in which we need it.
 
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No, but she did ask. Apparently he showed up for just long enough to get his new title and then went back out looking for more Vampires. Him and Roswita are exchanging letters as he gives her a crash course on the political realities of the upper echelons of the Sigmarite church.



He's got his opinions but he's also got survival instincts, and he can recognize what fights it's better not to have. Included in this category is 'any fight whatsoever that pits you against double digits of Battle Wizards'.
Honestly surprised its not 'any fight whatsoever that pits you against Battle Wizards period' :p
 
I find this quite flawed as an counter-argument.

Yes, getting Esoteric later will block getting Antiquarian on something else. But that's a rabbit hole that never ever ends.

Not only that, but the same applies to spending it on what you want, rather on some other thing down the line.

There will always be something else.
Yeah, I agree, there will always be something else... but I think skaven are our highest priority for the foreseeable future. +1 on all those rolls adds up.

Our resources exist to be used for practical value, not hoarded. We are not in danger of running out of Dwarf Favour.

It furthermore fails in not considering that we could always just burn our personal favor then, to get that desperately needed whatever at the point in which we need it.
I specifically addressed that, so I'm not sure what you mean by saying that it didn't consider that. Delaying the inevitable moment we spend personal favour means that we didn't actually gain anything unless we go down to 1 or 0 favour at some point in the future, because unspent favour doesn't do anything.
 
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Yeah, I agree, there will always be something else... but I think skaven are our highest priority for the foreseeable future. +1 on all those rolls adds up.

Our resources exist to be used for practical value, not hoarded. We are not in danger of running out of Dwarf Favour.
It's one turn we are missing that +1. It doesn't "add up".

Not only that, but 2 favor is half of a Warboss in open battle.

That we have a decent chunk of favor doesn't make every little bit worth any less.

No, this is pure extravagance.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Plan Budget Spending
[X] [TOWER] Ongoing
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
 
saying that it didn't consider that. Delaying the inevitable moment we spend personal favour means that we didn't actually gain anything unless we go down to 1 or 0 favour at some point in the future, because unspent favour doesn't do anything.
Unspent favor is accumulated potential.

It does something for us alright: it keeps doors open. It gives us options.

Not something to be spent this frivolously.
 
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It's one turn we are missing that +1. It doesn't "add up".
One turn, during which we are in a tense and high-stakes situation with a skaven. Yeah, I'll spend 2 Dwarf Favour for a +1 on every roll involving that guy. The potential payoff is so high if we succeed.

It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little.

Unspent favor is accumulated potential.

It does something for us alright: it keeps doors open. It gives us options.

Not something to be spent this frivolously.
We can spend into the negatives. We did it with College Favour. This doesn't hold up.
 
I find this quite flawed as an counter-argument.

Yes, getting Esoteric later will block getting Antiquarian on something else. But that's a rabbit hole that never ever ends.

Not only that, but the same applies to spending it on what you want, rather on some other thing down the line.

There will always be something else.

It furthermore fails in not considering that we could always just burn our personal favor then, to get that desperately needed whatever at the point in which we need it.
I would like to extend this to people wanting to "get rid of the backlog", stop seeing it as a bag of things we are carrying and more like different spec trees or classes or something.
Do we want to focus on AV or in Skaven weapons? Warp or tech? Is this a system that promotes multiclassing or should we stick to a tree?
Because we are always going to have options, some of which we will never pursue.
 
[X] [TOWER] Ongoing

Night and poor-weather operation are high priority if this is going to be as central a keystone to the overland defense as it looks to be. I would prefer to add those at the cost of time even if it meant delivering on the late end of things, let alone for delivering early.

[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.

Nothing much we need, except of course the glorious, glorious books.

[X] [LIBRARY] Focused Spending
[X] [LIBRARY] Plan: Finding the Mines

I see no real reason to stint on spending a few college or dwarf favor, especially when we're reasonably flush and have no immediate major purchases lined up.

As far as next turn goes, my priorities are as follows:

1) Learn invis to avoid a negatrait. It costs us very little to do so and helps us a lot long term.
2) Finish the tower. Done and done right in a year is something excellent to shoot for, and this place becoming perhaps the single safest dwarfhold from above-ground siege might make Belegar happier about taking it back and the logic involved.
3) Get more from the Skaven. While his lifetime is not indefinite, he is very much a long-term asset and outside of time-sensitive intel it really doesn't much matter if we squeeze things out of him now or a year from now. Take another turn learning about what he knows about the strategic situation of the Traitor-clans, pass it on to Imperial intel/the Greys, and then see if we can twist him/his loyalty enough to learn Queekish.
4) Writing papers if they're still fresh. We have a number of tactically relevant and rare insight papers on the docket. One action, Serentity, and a Max action could likely clear out the full time-sensitive backlog and let us pull through the rest with free Serenity actions going forward.
5) Snekjuice. Just enough to figure out if we want to suggest it as a project next time. Because constant ancestor runes are cool, and Kragg did something nice for us just now. Yeah, it's our own personal development, but getting wounded by the troll was our resident Celestial's personal development of the six month period and we still think he's an idiot for not coming to us and avoid sitting around on his ass from a wound for six months.
 
One turn, during which we are in a tense and high-stakes situation with a skaven. Yeah, I'll spend 2 Dwarf Favour for a +1 on every roll involving that guy. The potential payoff is so high if we succeed.

It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little.


We can spend into the negatives. We did it with College Favour. This doesn't hold up.

1% is not worth two dwarf favor.
 
Everyone, please consider voting for [] Plan no favor mines, the currently leading plan is spending half a Warboss worth of favor to get a +1 on maybe one roll, which we can get for free the next turn.
 
While dwarf favor is valuable, We do have an option to get more. if we set the coin to let everyone know what we did for them and then go murderhobo on some of our various enemies, we will probably generate more favor. collage favor is generated every 6 months now thanks to the tower. it's the one use item problem in games. you get a good item but you can only use it once. you play the entire game with it sitting in your inventory and beat the game with it there. what good did it do you? on the other hand it is that clutch item that saves you while facing the final boss. you never know which it's going to be.

I think it should be taken on a case to case basis. I think it is a good use of resources this time. that won't always be true. I don't foresee us dropping another 25 favors on one item again anytime soon. I think we should keep a buffer for if we REALLY need something but beyond that buffer, we should spend it and get some use out of it. that's my 2 cents.
 
We can spend into the negatives. We did it with College Favour. This doesn't hold up.
It absolutely adds up, because we have to pay the piper.

This means actions, this means risking our lives.

Remember here that the set of actions we get if we are negative in dwarf favor and need to recoup it are desperation-fueled gambits. They are, universally, not nice things.

Dwarf Favor isn't College Favor, which we can be sure to get more of by simply writing papers. It's drastically harder and more dangerous to get.
 
Everyone, please consider voting for [] Plan no favor mines, the currently leading plan is spending half a Warboss worth of favor to get a +1 on maybe one roll, which we can get for free the next turn.
- Depending on Qrech's nature, which might be different to the nature he has shown to you thus far, there may or may not be rolls to decide whether or not he will be considering or attempting to get up to mischief. You will not see these rolls. There may have been rolls already.
Do not be penny wise and pound foolish. This skaven is such a coup that people were considering spending 10 Dwarf Favour to keep him safe last turn cycle. If we bungle this opportunity it will suck. An extra 1% is worth 2 Favour we aren't using for anything in particular.
 
Seriously, dwarf favor is our most valuable currency.
Belt, Sword, experts.
Spending in on books is, now that we have 2 favor allowance very turn, the least efficient way to use it, specially for marginal results that will come in play maybe once or twice in the entire quest, compared to, again, sword or belt.
 
Do not be penny wise and pound foolish. This skaven is such a coup that people were considering spending 10 Dwarf Favour to keep him safe last turn cycle. If we bungle this opportunity it will suck. An extra 1% is worth 2 Favour we aren't using for anything in particular.
Here's one use: fortify our home and make sure he doesn't escape or gets assassinated.

How about hiring a hero-level warrior to help us develop our sword style? That'd certainly save some actions.

Maybe get Runelord assistance on a project.

A Grounding Rod that's a mobile Oh Dear Tower, that's going to be expensive.

And on and on.
 
[X] [TOWER] Ongoing
[X] Plan no favor mines

Let's only spend the free dwarven favor for now. A single percent isn't nothing, those add up, but now that we're getting an absolutely stunning book stipend we can afford to wait a bit and turn patience into literary profit.
While dwarf favor is valuable, We do have an option to get more. if we set the coin to let everyone know what we did for them and then go murderhobo on some of our various enemies, we will probably generate more favor. collage favor is generated every 6 months now thanks to the tower. it's the one use item problem in games. you get a good item but you can only use it once. you play the entire game with it sitting in your inventory and beat the game with it there. what good did it do you? on the other hand it is that clutch item that saves you while facing the final boss. you never know which it's going to be.

I think it should be taken on a case to case basis. I think it is a good use of resources this time. that won't always be true. I don't foresee us dropping another 25 favors on one item again anytime soon. I think we should keep a buffer for if we REALLY need something but beyond that buffer, we should spend it and get some use out of it. that's my 2 cents.
We can get more, yes. We should also spend it to enhance our enjoyment of the game, yes. But, books are one of the lowest possible priorities for that.
Do not be penny wise and pound foolish. This skaven is such a coup that people were considering spending 10 Dwarf Favour to keep him safe last turn cycle. If we bungle this opportunity it will suck. An extra 1% is worth 2 Favour we aren't using for anything in particular.
Consider: Two favor for +1. That comes up to ten favor for +5.

Which is worth more, when considering the priority of keeping him safe? +5 to rolls concerning our interactions with him, or the guarantee that, having put specific dwarven securities in place, we're narratively much more secure in the knowledge that he's going to be safe from escape or assassination attempts?

If you want him to be safe, let's implement measures to keep him safe. An extra +1 is the equivalent of putting tape on the door; very expensive tape.
 
This skaven is such a coup that people were considering spending 10 Dwarf Favour to keep him safe last turn cycle. If we bungle this opportunity it will suck. An extra 1% is worth 2 Favour we aren't using for anything in particular.
Uh... if not losing the skaven was worth 10 favor last turn cycle and you're arguing that an extra hundredth (by expected value) of not losing the skaven is worth 2 Favor now, what happened to inflate the value of not losing the skaven by 20 times that I missed?

That's a pretty drastic rate of inflation if it's now worth 2000% as much as it was last turn.
 
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Consider: Two favor for +1. That comes up to ten favor for +5.

Which is worth more? +5 to rolls concerning him, or the guarantee that, having put specific dwarven securities in place, we're narratively much more secure in the knowledge that he's going to be safe from escape or assassination attempts?

If you want him to be safe, let's implement measures to keep him safe. An extra +1 is the equivalent of putting tape on the door; very expensive tape.
So the thing is, we can do both. And we will! I am going to vote for the best security on our place we can get next turn. We've got the 19 Favour. I am happy to spend as much of it as I can on this guy, which right now is 2 and next turn is probably 10.

This is not something I would counsel for most things. But the skaven is my highest priority right now behind Belegar's mental health
Uh... if not losing the skaven was worth 10 favor last turn cycle and you're arguing that an extra hundredth of not losing the skaven now is worth 2 Favor now, what happened to inflate the value of not losing the skaven by 20 times that I missed?

That's a pretty drastic rate of inflation if it's now worth 2000% as much as it was last turn.
Spending 10 Favour on securing a single cell was silly. Spending Favour on securing our entire home is smart. We're doing that next turn in the Penthouse action.
 
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