Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ah, yes, here it is. It was an old post. And apparently it mentioned Wyrdstone. Which is just another name for Warpstone. Okay.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
Several assorted replies:
And then I remembered it would require being in the same room as Morathi.
Yeah.
Mmmmmmmmaybe once we nail down that telepresence thing?
And to anyone who thinks it's not an unacceptable security risk, I invite you to consider that from what we've already experienced, it includes the ability to reveal information while preventing it from being revealed further (see also the Conspiracy's eyelid cipher) and the ability to trigger other mind-magic effects based on relatively flexible (possibly arbitrarily so) conditionals (the Number Whatever: The Skaven And The Conspiracy Of Silence automated read-in on encountering word of them).
Also interestingly, if I'm right, that means at least one of the Conspiracy was one of the Grey Order mind-mages? Which is fucking terrifying in hindsight, though I'm assuming the Patriarch cleared the other mind-mages and one of them went through our hidden triggers checking for shenanigans and we just don't remember it because of course why would we be allowed to remember it.
You know, when I added this post to multi-quote I was expecting the reply to be something along the lines of "holy fucking fuck, why in Ranald's name would we possibly ever want to not do this? What have we got to lose? What could possibly go wrong?"
And then I remembered it would require being in the same room as Morathi.
Yeah.
Mmmmmmmmaybe once we nail down that telepresence thing?
But...unless I'm misunderstanding and/or we can also afford a sufficiently-trustworthy-for-esoteric-topics scribe to copy them while they're borrowed, this is sort of missing the point of "expanding the library"?
I tend to value the Verena option less for obtaining obscure things and more for obtaining common things from far-off places where they have contacts and we do not. Which, granted, is still a security risk if we generally only buy topics that are currently specifically relevant to us, but is at least somewhat less concerning overall.
I dunno- I expect "knowledge of the overall capabilities of the advanced mind magic" is available to Lord Magisters, but the actual magic itself would be restricted to particularly skilled/trusted Perpetuals, on grounds of "literally no one capable of this is ever going to be allowed to leave the College because it's an unacceptable security risk, so let's restrict it to the people who are never going to leave the College anyway".
And to anyone who thinks it's not an unacceptable security risk, I invite you to consider that from what we've already experienced, it includes the ability to reveal information while preventing it from being revealed further (see also the Conspiracy's eyelid cipher) and the ability to trigger other mind-magic effects based on relatively flexible (possibly arbitrarily so) conditionals (the Number Whatever: The Skaven And The Conspiracy Of Silence automated read-in on encountering word of them).
Also interestingly, if I'm right, that means at least one of the Conspiracy was one of the Grey Order mind-mages? Which is fucking terrifying in hindsight, though I'm assuming the Patriarch cleared the other mind-mages and one of them went through our hidden triggers checking for shenanigans and we just don't remember it because of course why would we be allowed to remember it.
While I'm somewhat inclined to agree in this specific instance, I would like to point out that posts like these are far more likely to motivate spite-votes in favor of Roswita than they are to engender actual support.
GEE, WITH A NAME LIKE NURGLITCH, DOES IT REALLY NEED TO BE? Also it would totally explain the Horned Rat being relatively chill with the other clans going all "CRUSADE MUAHAHAHA!"on Pestilens' ass if he thinks they're Nurglite pawns.
Wait, what? This is actually a thing? ...shit I gotta google this tomorrow when I'm sober and rested.
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- Location
- Australia
We didn't get any loot from taking Karagril, and the option for loot underneath Karagril came from a roll; it wasn't a sure thing. Outside of whether or not we should spend an AP getting more money, I don't think we should take it for granted that we'll get superb amounts of money from the other mountains. That money simply may not exist.
I'd like to argue these highlighted ones because I think the underlying assumptions you're operating on when judging them are faulty.
Ranald: It's not to boost theurgy, it's to boost the Temple to the Gambler we plan to build next turn. Back in turn 20 when we set up the shrine where Mork got mugged, there was a roll for "Anything unexpected?" and it was boosted by our Piety. Upgrading the shrine to a full on temple could well trigger another roll, and if we use books on Ranald to help guide our temple construction it may give us a boost on that roll.
Guns: The books on the guns isn't so we get a bonus to helping them, it's so that Johann and Max get the bonuses, which I think they can now that we've constructed the library.
Bretonnian Guns: Bretonnia has the strongest human navy in the entirety of the Old World because their ships are big and equipped with lots of cannon, and the marines aboard are allowed to use guns too. That many guns requires a sizeable amount of infrastructure and skilled personnel related to the subject, so Bretonnia having books on guns is something I think is plausible.
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Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Assuming, of course, that it isn't Stirland that they consider to be an Exhausted Mine.
- Location
- his hidden lair
I mean we have the Nat 100 Barak Varr book contact, and well- Barak Varr in general. We have contacts and access to one of if not the largest markets in the Old World. Worst case we can put out a request as needed (like what was proposed for dragon bone) - but I'm skeptical the Verenans have much to offer besides obscurities.
I'm more worried about Johann being targeted. And also Mathilde's and Johann's Skaven loot being targeted.
Because suppressing knowledge and information about Skaven, and stealing or ruining Skaven stuff that Engineering schools or schools have, is something Skaven would do. Especially Eshin.
And here, we have Skaven, even Eshin, a few mountains over.
Add the Vault to that list too.
The Clans mentioned include Fester and Feesik both of which are based in the stronghold of Festerspike. The Vault are dominated by three Skaven stronghold of Festerspike, Foul peak and Putrid Stump. I couldn't find much on Putrid Stump but Foul Peak is ruled by Clan Ektrik who are thralls of Clan Skyre so I imagine would be jumping on them in a flash. Now, the fighting might be over by now given that Mors is already under threat and Clan Fester is mentioned to be in a state of continual slow decline since they lost their council of 13 seat way back in the days of the Black plague and in canon were nearing extinction thank to a disease Pestilens either couldn't or wouldn't cure but we don't know anything so this is just speculation.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
Also, I'm super enjoying these. Thanks for writing them.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Imagine the EIC, extend it through multiple order nations rather then just part of the empire, give it divine backing and now focus all of that influence on gaining knowledge and delivering justice. Do you think this organisation has absolutely nothing to offer in terms of knowledge besides obscurities?
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- Location
- his hidden lair
Look. Do you really think the Grey Order would be as institutionally paranoid if they had a way of guaranteeing honesty at all feasible for semi-regular use? And the Light Order, the other people who probably are most suited for that- allowed Egrimm Van Horstmann to be their Patriarch. The greatest traitor the Colleges have ever known and the most hated of Black Magisters.
I think this is the sort of thing that Boney is going to make ludicrously difficult to get. Because what methods might exist are secret, difficult, and easy to sabotage from what I understand and it's a very important conceit of the setting that they remain so.
the last survivors of the heroic tale of Skabbicus: a slave turned warrior, who promised a better existence. Legions of armoured Stormvermin assaulted down narrow tunnels to suppress the rebellion, but the slaves held firm. They might have gained freedom had not the devious Council of Thirteen announced a pardon for any who desisted and pointed out their leader. It is said that over 10,000 Skavenslaves pointed out Skabbicus and watched their former commander get cut down and eaten. The promised pardon was quickly forgotten and the following retribution was predictably brutal. Production dropped for weeks throughout Skavenblight, but everyone ate well.
but whether they actually are one of the only good Skaven clans or merely puppets of the Council is up in the air.
Well, in that case... buying College lessons on Interrogation -- and on Psychology -- might not go amiss.
Because what we're doing right now, has the potential to pay off with hugely important information, if it works.
So boosting as much as we can, only makes sense.
... Actually... On that note.
Would cost 4 Dwarf Favor. But I think it would be really worth it at this point in time, right?
Because now, the Skaven aren't just an enemy in the next mountain over, that we are going to be fighting. Now, we have a crucially valuable prisoner.
So yeah, now that I thought about it, I am going to be voting for Skaven: Esoteric Dwarven for a Library purchase.
Because every bit of bonus could count, here.
Because what we're doing right now, has the potential to pay off with hugely important information, if it works.
So boosting as much as we can, only makes sense.
... Actually... On that note.
While we're at it, and willing to spend favor, we could bump up that Extensive Dwarven into Esoteric.
Would cost 4 Dwarf Favor. But I think it would be really worth it at this point in time, right?
Because now, the Skaven aren't just an enemy in the next mountain over, that we are going to be fighting. Now, we have a crucially valuable prisoner.
So yeah, now that I thought about it, I am going to be voting for Skaven: Esoteric Dwarven for a Library purchase.
Because every bit of bonus could count, here.
- Location
- his hidden lair
This is absolutely the wrong question to be asking and making a huge number of assumptions. For one thing, we own the EIC body and soul pretty much, we can direct it, modify it, and access it's internal channels at our convenience. The Cult of Verena is not our creature by any means, is never going to be, and has other priorities than catering to our whim.
Furthermore- the ultimate question you should be asking in this case- what does the Cult offer that the EIC and our Dwarf contacts don't? Tilea and Estalia? We can't even read those languages. Their knowledge base in this case is the obscurities I'm vaguely considering, their grasp of Justice is at best irrelevant to our situation or actively counterproductive considering we are a secret police officer.
In any case- the Cult of Verena, like any other endeavor is going to give us results proportional to what we put in it. Do we need to invest those resources right now? What do we need from them as opposed to what might we get from them? The fundamental assumption you are making that the Verenans can get us things we can't get elsewhere is something I don't really agree with in the slightest. Because even if they do have exclusive information, we can just hire Ranaldites to get it for us no AP required. At this point your misguided attempts to hype the Cult up have only soured me on anything they bring to the table.
True, but these aren't competing priorities; the jail takes favour only to secure, and there's a worry alleviated.
Us, Johann, and the loot pile is more the sort of worry that you can only really be vigilant about, maybe spend actions on.
- Location
- Australia
BoneyM said they won't help. The relevant books are ones on the race or culture of the interogee. In this case, since we're interrogating a skaven, the books that help us with interrogation are Skaven books.
- Location
- Singapore
Honestly, we probably need the Checkpoint for the next Penthouse target, if we want to secure our prisoner. Let's turn our foyer into a hidden death-trap.
Also, what are the questers thoughts of buying Extensive-Cartography Dwarven & Imperial books this turn, in case Belegar asks us to turn our attention to project Cartography next turn or turn after next?
Also, what are the questers thoughts of buying Extensive-Cartography Dwarven & Imperial books this turn, in case Belegar asks us to turn our attention to project Cartography next turn or turn after next?
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- Location
- Nowhere, Midwestern USA
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
Personally? not a chance on the books. If we knew that was going to happen, sure, but TBH we cannot prep for every possible task. And this is coming from someone who wants ALL THE BOOKS eventually. Let's wait and see what he tells us to do first.
Well, to put things in perspective; even in Wurtbad we only got involved with a little over half of the movers and shakers, and that was with twice as long to get involved, much less in the way of interesting characters who weren't major players to compete for screen time, and having it literally be our assignment to poke our nose into other councilors' business (thus automatically achieving "foot in the door" levels of characterization/screen time to whet our interest).
What? That doesn't make sense. Why the heck wouldn't it help.
... Or did you mean books on Psychology and Interrogation?
Because that was not what I meant; I meant going to the Grey College, and paying for classes on Psychology and Interrogation. (This can be bought with Favor or per 100gc, apparently.)
In addition, I also wanted to spend Dwarf Favor to buy up to Esoteric Dwarven books on Skaven. But that's separate from going to school in the Grey Colleges.
Isn't it slightly premature to spend favour making gains from interrogation slightly higher before spending favour to ensure our prisoner remains our prisoner?
"there may or may not be rolls to decide whether or not he will be considering or attempting to get up to mischief. You will not see these rolls. There may have been rolls already." is hardly a subtle warning.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I recognise that this is a small point, and speaks only to Mathilde's beliefs, but it's also a pet peeve of mine so I want to address it anyway: This is incorrect. Torture is never a necessary tool. It is not useful when you have some way to verify the resulting information. It is not better than nothing if you have limited time. Information of dubious provenance is not better than none. This has been studied extensively, and the results are both conclusive, and date back beyond living memory - as far back as the fifth century, people have been demonstrating that torture is not only immoral, but entirely ineffective. Torture has negative utility, period.
I don't want to clog up the thread with such an unsavoury subject, so I will say no more on the matter, but if people, @BoneyM included, are interested in discussing the topic further and checking my sources, my PM's are open.
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