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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Ericwinter said:
Oh I doubt he'll be exactly like Karl Franz, but considering that BoneyM already pegged my post with an insightful rating, I'm willing to bet there's a much greater purpose to this con than just letting Gabriella be Empress. Franz, IIRC, was essentially a mortal incarnation of Sigmar--although given my lack of real Lore knowledge, that could be way off the mark--so couldn't Ranald theoretically do the same? And what makes it unlikely the kid would be connected to the Ranaldian faith? His mother will apparently be one of Ranald's biggest worshippers, given the amount of Divine favor he spent on her, some of that has to trickle down unless she has little to no influence on his upbringing.
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Karl Franz was very talented, but he wasn't anything like a mortal incarnation of Sigmar. He was just a man who did his best with the tools he was given, and his best was very good. It was Valten who was (probably) an incarnation of Sigmar.

Remember that the Empire is polytheistic, not henotheistic. Although some people may have a god they feel particularly close to, everyone in the Empire worships all the relevant legitimate gods as regards to their sphere of influence, including the priests of a specific god. The only people who don't are a vigorously suppressed Sigmarite heresy (and Chaos cultists).
 
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[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.

[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Karak Hirn, to satisfy your curiousity about Prince Ulthar.

[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
 
Kornet said:
By the way, since we finished Liber Mortis, will we consider having an apprentice?
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For myself, I'm not in love with the idea, as I think it could dilute the Quests focus on Mathilde, in much the same way a parent having a (say teenage) child would.

Regardless, I think we should try our hand at being mother hen to the ducklings (wait, that's not quite right) for a bit longer, first.
 
Quest said:
But when we have this and the assurance that "we can fling dhar, hug a daemon and juggle warpstone" while having no effect on our soul
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They're two different things. No magic corruption. But. Using Dhar specifically makes use of Mathilde's Will To Dominate. If Mathilde uses her Will To Dominate, it will level up. People with strong Wills To Dominate are supervillains. That's the definition. No magic involved. Exercising builds her muscles, and Domination builds her capacity for Domination.

We're not talking about a magical fishhook that the belt can save us from, we're talking about the simple effect of getting better at doing something inherently mentally dubious. We can hug a daemon, and not turn crazy automatically. But hugging a daemon makes us crazy for other, more mundane reasons.
 
chocolote12 said:
They're two different things. No magic corruption. But. Using Dhar specifically makes use of Mathilde's Will To Dominate. If Mathilde uses her Will To Dominate, it will level up. People with strong Wills To Dominate are supervillains. That's the definition. No magic involved. Exercising builds her muscles, and Domination builds her capacity for Domination.

We're not talking about a magical fishhook that the belt can save us from, we're talking about the simple effect of getting better at doing something inherently mentally dubious. We can hug a daemon, and not turn crazy automatically. But hugging a daemon makes us crazy for other, more mundane reasons.
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Thus, only use it very, very sparingly (the "studying serial killers for a week doesn't turn you into a serial killer"), or ulgu tongs so we don't change our mindset.
 
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
I wanna hear her story. Nothing complicated in terms of reasoning, I just think it'd be interesting to know more about how she got where she did and how/why Ranald decided to spend his Mork-money on her.

[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
We owe him our thanks, twice over. Seriously. And I doubt he gets many opportunities to indulge himself.

[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
She's scared of magic in general, still, but doesn't seem to be quite so concerned about us specifically. We're probably the best person to help her with this issue, and any progress she makes benefits Stirland.

[X] Prince Gotri, who will seize any excuse to talk about his gyrocopters.
We've been doing a lot of gyrocopter travelling lately. It'd be interesting to hear more about them.

[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
Mathilde is a sucker for reading romance novels, she might as well be a sucker for hearing about the real thing too. :V
 
chocolote12 said:
They're two different things. No magic corruption. But. Using Dhar specifically makes use of Mathilde's Will To Dominate. If Mathilde uses her Will To Dominate, it will level up. People with strong Wills To Dominate are supervillains. That's the definition. No magic involved. Exercising builds her muscles, and Domination builds her capacity for Domination.

We're not talking about a magical fishhook that the belt can save us from, we're talking about the simple effect of getting better at doing something inherently mentally dubious. We can hug a daemon, and not turn crazy automatically. But hugging a daemon makes us crazy for other, more mundane reasons.
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Way I see it we only pull the Second Law in the most desperate of situations and afterwards Mathilde should spend a lot of time meditating in order to smooth out any grooves the act put in her mind.
 
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping

[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).

[X] On display in the Duckling Club.

To those voting to put the skull aside, having it put on display while we wait is perfectly fine, as this won't damage the skull (except possibly to hang it from the ceiling). This is different from the bed and chair (and bathtub) that would damage it for other purposes.

I would also remind people that we will have other social turns to talk with people, so options like Regimand, Anton, and the Amber College that currently don't have anything currently urgent to discuss can wait for a turn where we have less options (like Karak Kadrin, who won't be an option next turn).
 
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] The best reading chair ever.
 
noliar said:
I still say the We thinks more like a group of forest spiders than bees.
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The We are pretty unique. I think it'd be more accurate to say they think like a corporation or a guild or some other large organisation than any existing species.
 
Well, that was one hell of an update.

[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping

[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.

[X] The best reading chair ever.
 
Alliterate said:
For myself, I'm not in love with the idea, as I think it could dilute the Quests focus on Mathilde, in much the same way a parent having a (say teenage) child would.

Regardless, I think we should try our hand at being mother hen to the ducklings (wait, that's not quite right) for a bit longer, first.
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on one hand, this is a CK2 quest, so having a next-gen ready wouldn't hurt. (heir or apprentice.)

and having a minion that we can just dump a long-distance project on would be great.

on the other hand: we don't know all the spells below battle magic, it would be embarrassing.
 
Sinsystems said:
Way I see it we only pull the Second Law in the most desperate of situations and afterwards Mathilde should spend a lot of time meditating in order to smooth out any grooves the act put in her mind.
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I mostly agree, but I would also push to field-test it on warpstone.

It's our nuclear option, our tool of last resort. We need to know if it can be applied against a skaven horde.
 
I had to take a break from reading to say... WHAT THE ACTUAL FLYING FUCK! THE CONSPIRACY IS ALIVE! IT NEVER STOPPED! WE ARE STILL ITS PAWN! AND EVERYTHING IS STILL ACCORDING TO PLAN! WE WERE NOT CHOSEN BECAUSE WE HAPPENED TO BE REGIMAND'S APPRENTICE, BUT BECAUSE OF OUR RELIGION! ALL OF THIS WAS PLANNED! ALL OF IT!

X X
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...ahem. So our loyalties are back to being clearly divided again. Probably more so than ever before in this quest.
So... Is Regimand a part of this? Did the Empress actually deserve to die? So many questions.

BoneyM you magnificent bastard.
 
So, I think I may have puzzled out an explanation for "Heidi" posing as Gabriella for years and still being younger than us. Essentially? She didn't. Gabi gets dusted; a Ranauldian priestess takes advantage of the confusion to take her place and fake it till she makes it. Time passes, she starts hitting the point that she can no longer keep up the charade through makeup and clothing, cue her daughter stepping into the position, and shortly after Mathilde happens.
 
chocolote12 said:
They're two different things. No magic corruption. But. Using Dhar specifically makes use of Mathilde's Will To Dominate. If Mathilde uses her Will To Dominate, it will level up. People with strong Wills To Dominate are supervillains. That's the definition. No magic involved. Exercising builds her muscles, and Domination builds her capacity for Domination.

We're not talking about a magical fishhook that the belt can save us from, we're talking about the simple effect of getting better at doing something inherently mentally dubious. We can hug a daemon, and not turn crazy automatically. But hugging a daemon makes us crazy for other, more mundane reasons.
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Quest said:
First, I absolutely agree on not using dhar. The only time I would agree on using anything other than the second secret would be if the empire somehow approved of is learning it or the empire somehow ceased to matter.

With that out of the way, this is the WOG concerning the affects of using Dhar besides corruption.

Ignore the part that links dhar and serial killers for a second.

Instead focus on the bolded bit that explicitly compares the mindstate produced by dhar to shyish and then the other winds. Then read the second bolded point that explains that the college already taught her how to deal with this.

Now if researching serial killers still seems like a big thing, let me remind you that Mathilde just murdered over 40 human beings this turn. She is not a modern day person like you or me. War and death is a part of her life, and she already deals with it. She's not going to become a serial killer just because she researched serial killers for a week.

Tldr it's no more dangerous than wielding ulgu to Mathilde personally. It's still dangerous for those around us and for our reputation.
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Quest said:
This is my breakdown of the mental affect of dhar and how it is only as dangerous as the mentsl effect of ulgu or another wind.

This either refers to using dhar directly in which case using ulgu tongs makes it even safer or this refers to using dhar through ulgu tongs which means that it is mentally safe. The end result is that we can wield Dhar without going through mental or metaphysical or any other form of corruption.
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[X] Prince Kazrik, as he tries to pry a shipwright loose from Barak Varr.
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.

[X] The best reading chair ever.
 
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[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
on the other hand: we don't know all the spells below battle magic, it would be embarrassing.
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While I agree with the idea that we should know all the spells below battle magic before taking an apprentice it is not to avoid embarrassment. We already know all the spells they could conceivably learn before it's time for them to become a journeymanling. The real reason is so we can pull off the same appear/disappear act that our master did.
 
So would it be possible to have a secretive meeting with the Grey order boss and give him the box the Liber Mortis came in, with the book inside now that we've read it, and say it was with that Necrarch vampire?

If there'd be a somewhat believable excuse as to why we have this very dangerous book it'd be because we just destroyed a school of necromancy. A vampire from that particular bloodline having that book? It isn't so out there that it wouldn't be difficult to believe.
 
Haven't caught up yet, but I'm taking a break to throw down a vote for the one thing I want to win.

[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.

The one still living Sigmarite Mathilde can actually kinda get along with. Well, maybe excepting Roswita? Anyway, I just want to meet him again and find out if he still lives.
 
[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Karak Hirn, to satisfy your curiousity about Prince Ulthar.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, to check up on the Ulrikadrin and get to know him better.
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.

[X] The best reading chair ever.
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping
 
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