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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Exmorri said:
Sure. I don't know if this is the correct explanation, but it is at least an example explanation that might apply: there's a certain kind of quest which seeks to give players fine control so that the players won't holler "Why did the character do <dumb thing>!?" This may occur after an actual character blunder, or pre-emptively.
From there one may get into a feedback loop where QM says "Well, now that you've asked for fine control it's up to you to remember the things you're controlling, I'm not letting you have it both ways at once" and then players then go "Oh god we need to be very specific and make sure to remember everything" and issue even more detailed plans and ask for even more fine control. Which becomes a habit for some people.

And the result is thorough planning of everything, as perhaps exemplified in Marked for Death.

[X] Action Plan: Rationalization

Goals:
  • Survive.
  • Maintain a positive mindset.
  • Continue the mission.
  • Reassure the team.

Methods:
  • General:
    • Follow Akane's lead while she's our sub-team leader. Follow Minami's lead before we leave, and after we regroup.
    • Try to avoid triggering Minami's insecurities.
      • She's team leader, but she inherited a team who treats her as an outsider. Avoid reminding her of this.
    • When moving, minimize chatter in favor of alertness.
  • Main Questline:
      • (Almost) nonstop 15-16hr run back.
      • Break only when we need to replace Skywalkers.
        • Take this time to replenish chakra, food, and water.
        • Noburi should check on the prisoners to ensure they are alive but chakra-drained. Unconscious if appropriate.
          • First ask Noburi if there are consequences to keeping them unconscious/chakra-drained for this long. If there is no issue, suggest we do this.
        • If SOP, slightly hydrate the prisoners.
          • Check based on standard for prisoner exchange (MInami/Jiraiya should have said something offscreen) and Noburi's knowledge as a medic.
      • First time we get the chance, check Goda & his retinue for false teeth/cyanide capsules/other suicide methods.
        • (DON'T SAY OR SUGGEST THIS OUT LOUD) Just in case Minami missed it. She did seem out of it.
      • If we MUST stop to sleep, set up a Skytower and sleep. Keep shifts.
      • Drop off Goda and his ninja bodyguards. Also give the intel we recovered.
        • Ask if they want us to wake them up via chakra water.
      • If prompted, give a mission debriefing.
      • Collect weapons & food supplies.
        • See if we can get a spyglass or telescope. Ask Mari-sensei or Jiraiya if we get the chance to talk with them.
      • Take some time to rest after our run. Keep shifts.
        • If allowed, sleep in Konoha. Our old apartment, or estate if Jiraiya bought it.
        • If not allowed, head a ways to our destination, set up a Skywalker, and then sleep.
      • Skywalk back to the team.
        • It's a 22 hour run (to Nagi Island, on average). Don't exhaust ourselves with a second all-nighter.
  • Reassure Team Uplift before we leave.
    • Be respectful. Don't be tactless, not here.
      • People died, and that sucks.
      • I want to focus on the positive: we accomplished what we set out to do.
        • Keiko, you demonstrated just how powerful and useful your pangolins are, exactly as you said they would be.
        • Noburi, you dealt with that situation with surgical precision: no non-combatants were killed in the takedown and you effortlessly captured two experienced ninja with no risk to our team.
        • We didn't mess up and accidentally kill Goda despite the fight between several Chunin or better combatants.
      • Given our status as a heavy-combat squad I don't know if we could have done any more.
      • BUT as we get stronger and stronger, we'll gain the skill and ability to do better, and next time hopefully have other options than hurting innocents.
    • If we've already left, do this with Akane and Noburi first, and then repeat with Keiko and Kagome when we get back.
  • Complete an After-Action Report.
    • Do the report after we regroup with the team, as time permits.
    • Keep in mind Minami still considers us to be the Cold Stone Killers/outsiders.
      • Disguising our trump card usages so we might not need to kill witnesses
        • Disguise Pangolins using physical coverings or Henge. Ask Pangolins in future?
        • Apply Mist first, then Pangolins attack while LOS is blocked using Mist.
      • Timing between the air-team landing and the boat team?
        • Not a problem this time, but could have been one if the enemy was stronger.
        • Learn Whispers on the Wind, useful for signaling for ambush.
        • Maybe have Panda be part of the air-team and be unsummoned beforehand as a signal?
      • Better knowledge of the Pangolin's personal combat ability for better diagnosis of enemy ninja capabilities.
  • Talk with Akane.
    • Do this after we've handed off the prisoners and have time to talk. Preferably in a private setting, maybe before we re-join the main group.
    • Be open but respectful. Don't be tactless, not here.
    • Talk about our (Hazou's) feelings regarding what happened.
      • We feel guilty because our long-term plans revolved around changing the system, yet despite that we are now we're complicit in executing dozens of civilians.
      • We understand why it was done (increased risk of Leaf's rivals finding out), but still hate that we chose killing innocents over the risk of serious failure.
      • We're scared that we'll give up, grow disillusioned, and/or end up becoming just another part of the system.
    • Ask her about Guy's philosophy and YOUTH.
      • How does she reconcile this with what happened?
      • What would Guy do? What would Lee?
    • Give her a hug. Best girlfriend deserves it, and more.
  • (Optional) Meet Mari-sensei.
    • Do this ONLY if we are cleared to stay in Konoha for sleep, and get the opportunity.
    • Give her a hug.
    • Tell her we missed her.
    • Ask her how things have been going in Konoha.
      • Her befriending of the clan head wives.
      • The political situation.
      • Jiraiya's...Ask if Jiraiya's alright.
    • Ask if she thinks Jiraiya'll let us do some work to find Hana, after the mission's over.
Contingencies:
  • (While transporting the prisoners) If we see someone in the air:
    • IMMEDIATELY dive onto the ground and use the local terrain to cover our escape.
    • Try to evade their ability to find us before heading back to Konoha.
    • If this seems impossible (they are gaining on us) let Akane make the decision to go to Konoha, continue running, or fight.

I suggest you handle it by treating deep-indent writeins as loose suggestions at best, where Mathilde will take the level of precautions you (and the dice) find it sensible for her to take, regardless of whether the players are careless or micromanaging.

Edit: Accidentally missed some words.
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Deal god... I like and to an extent encourage long plans and that still gives me headaches.
 
I certainly didn't I gave up on that quest when an innocuous turn of phrase in one of the plans resulted in the GM killing of the VIP we'd been told to escort resulting in the loss of a relationship with one of the major powers in the setting that had been cultivated for months.
 
BoneyM said:
oh god why
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Snowfire said:
What the actual fuck.
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I know, right? It starts out by feeling the need to make clear that "Survive" is a goal and then it gets long enough to scroll off the screen before I even open the spoilers with subplans, contingencies, and topics to have conversations about, and how one feels about those topics, and why one feels that way.
Dadarian said:
Do people find this fun?
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Evidently, yes, judging by the fact that Marked for Death is the sixth-longest quest on the forum. (3200 pages, 760k words, compared to Divided Loyalties with 250 and 120k.)
 
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BoneyM said:
And you want Mathilde to go up to them and try to shame them for not caring enough about children? Are you kidding me?
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Shaming wasn't my intent or in my head at all. I'm honestly sorry it came across that way.
At risk of further compounding my miscommunication, It was to explain her desire to expand the Watch to all of Stirland. This started as the Wurtbad Watch, right? Mathilde was a child in an outlying village. Not everyone in Stirland has as well-organised a Watch. We want to change that.

But, it seems we're on different wavelengths re. my written communication.
 
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Alliterate said:
At risk of further compounding my miscommunication, It was to explain her desire to expand the Watch to all of Stirland. This started as the Wurtbad Watch, right? Mathilde was a child in an outlying village. Not everyone in Stirland has as well-organised a Watch. We want to change that.
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There's honestly not really much Mathilde, who is young, female, a wizard, and the spymistress, could say to the old, deeply conservative, entirely male rank-and-file without it coming across badly. Remember from way back in the first post:

2. Stauch Traditionalists: Outside of extreme circumstances, the locals are unlikely to take well to changes without a lot of effort.

There's no amount of 'think of the children' you can throw at that and have them suddenly react well to changes, and the very attempt is likely to just make things worse. What's needed is time, new blood, and improvements in the lot of the complainers.

...which is what I would have said if you had written in 'try to improve the morale of the watch' as your action. Trying to sneak it in as a rider on a completely unrelated action is part of what got my dander up.
 
DragonParadox said:
Deal god... I like and to an extent encourage long plans and that still gives me headaches.
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I'm pretty sure that we've never actually hit a plan that complex. Mainly because you treat your characters as people, with their own drives and common sense. I just...gyah.

Melancholeric said:
Welcome to rationalist fiction. Obsessive micromanagement is your god and narrative is for philistines.
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Adding yet another reason to why I hate that entire branch of 'fiction' with a passion.

BoneyM said:
2. Stauch Traditionalists: Outside of extreme circumstances, the locals are unlikely to take well to changes without a lot of effort.

There's no amount of 'think of the children' you can throw at that and have them suddenly react well to changes, and the very attempt is likely to just make things worse. What's needed is time, new blood, and improvements in the lot of the complainers.
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But muh family values :V
Is joke, please do not hurt me.
 
So moving onto something more relevant to the story I wonder what kind of rumors will start to spread after that showing and how that will affect our reputation.
 
Snowfire said:
I'm pretty sure that we've never actually hit a plan that complex. Mainly because you treat your characters as people, with their own drives and common sense. I just...gyah.
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Not that insanely detailed, but the plans for every important characters job or freetime for every day in the next month do take similar space and a nice spreadsheet.
 
Hm.
BoneyM said:
The [Watch] budget is signed off on by the Elector Count each year, and he's been rubber-stamping it because it's getting a lot more bang for Stirland's buck because of the defrayment of costs. So yes, there's more than enough wiggle room to expand training without it raising any eyebrows at budget time. In thinking about this question I've decided to simplify matters a great deal and put a number rating on budgetary wiggle room - you're currently at +3, where 0 is the point where the Watch meets but does not exceed expectations, given their level of funding. +2 of that is due to gong farming defrayment, and the third is due to the quick and thorough demolishment of the Stirhugel troubles.
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BoneyM said:
There's no amount of 'think of the children' you can throw at that and have them suddenly react well to changes, and the very attempt is likely to just make things worse. What's needed is time, new blood, and improvements in the lot of the complainers.
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Looks to me like we might consider raising the Watch's wages a bit next time finances come up.
 
BoneyM said:
oh god why

I kind of feel bad for my harshness now, I didn't realize this was trauma-induced behaviour.
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Sinsystems said:
You'd be surprised, I've seen quests where people literally started making spreadsheets and economic calculations.
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Yeah, I've seen worse, but that one is up there.

I think it comes down to a couple of things.
1. While the most famous and popular quests tend to have GM-s with a well established style for dealing with write-ins and details, most quests don't. Most quests fail. I've seen more than a few where the voters were :"Of course we wanted the MC to do the thing." and the GM's response was :"Well you should have said that."
2. While a GM tends to run a couple of quests, many voters will follow more than one. Possibly, many, many quests. So when something like 1 shows up in another quest, even after you clarified @BoneyM , that can spillover into this thread and voters can relapse.
3. GM-s and voters can have issues with what is IC knowledge, what is thread knowledge, and what is OCC knowledge, and what is GM only knowledge.

The overlapping areas and clashes of all that's in a GM-s and the thread's brains can, quite understandingly, lead to some weird results and stuff that seemingly comes out of left field, for either the GM or the voters, while the other side thinks this was an obvious consequence. Thus, trust, namely that the voters will understand accurately and without misunderstanding the choices laid out by the GM, and in return, that the GM will accurately and faithfully execute those choices(as far as IC conditions permit, acting in the spirit of the vote, not the letter of it) really come down to communicating with each other openly and honestly, and practice, practice, practice.

In time, you'll build up some participants in thread that will carry it, so to speak. Be premier voices that understand your style of GM-ing, are very familiar with the subject matter, and can explain and analyze options for returning voters, or new ones, arguing for and against, and write-in in ways that are clear and easy for you to parse and use in your writing.

But like any relationship, it takes time and effort. C'est la Vie. ;)
 
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A Song of Stirland - a Bard Quest, Turn 15
  • Apocrypha
    • Sinsystems said:
    The final test for any bard to play at court is to spend an hour playing Mathilde a song, while she sat next to a fire reading a good book as her shadow is cast upon you.
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    Meanwhile in a parallell universe, user MoneyB wrote:

    A Song of Stirland - a Bard Quest
    Turn 15

    "You have faced every challenge brought before you. You have been vetted through Dame Mathilde, your faith has been confirmed by Kasmir, you had a very nice dinner with the myself, who found your sonnets impeccable, and you have fought off the many devious challengers that have faced you in competition for the much desired role as official bard of the court of Stirland. Alas, there is one last hurdle to overcome before you will be regaled in wine, women, and wealth."

    Your beard drooped. The efforts spent over the years to rise from that awful inn near Ohlsdorf to your current position as heir-apparent of the most desirable position for a bard within Stirland was so close. Yet so, so far. You could hear Ranald himself snickering somewhere, and a nearby meow only confirmed your suspicions. Lousy git, if he wasn't such a lucky charm you would've hoisted your faith to a more reasonable god years ago. With a sigh, Anton smiling at you before dropping whatever menace was next on his tongue. Not intentionally of course, the Chancellor didn't have a menacing bone in his body.

    "Given the Elector-Count's trust in her, you must actually perform for the spy-mistress. Normally I would be the final interview, but van Hel says I enjoy everyone's music. I personally think that having such a broad appreciation is a good thing, but after the last chap I suspect van Hel has a particular ear."

    You nodded. That Tilean talent-less hack Muzio Apprazo had initially seized the first chance to become the Court Bard. He had wined and dined Anton in circles, without much a word to be sung. Anton simply accepted the situation and recommended Muzio to the Elector-Count. Thank goodness Muzio's falsetto was about in tune with music as a peasant with reading. You heard a rumor that Muzio was thrown out of Wurtburg before he hit the third stanza.

    Served him right.

    However performing before the spy-mistress was a terrifying prospect. A wizard, heavens above, and one of the most powerful individuals in the entire county? Worse yet, she was a known individual in the arts community. How else would one get the nickname Sängerkritisch. All told, you most likely gained a grey hair in your perfect beard in reaction to the news. Which meant that you most certainly had to properly groom yourself again. Age might be a gift to practice, but a curse to good looks.

    You smiled at Anton and nodded. his eyes wide and innocent. "You've spoken so much about Dame Weber, so I'm sure she will be as pleasant in our interaction as you say she will be." This brought a broad grin to Anton's face, which matched the polite grin on your own.

    Downing your wine, your palms sweated.

    ~​

    Spy mistress Dame Mathilde Weber lounged comfortably in a chair that highlighted just how small of an individual she was. If she was the size of a peasant boy you'd be surprised. The library around her was filled with books on arcane subjects that you doubt would turn into anything of interest, and a small cup of something hot was quietly steaming by her side. Although there was a polite knock by the door guard, the spy mistress seemed distracted, mumbling about something. You thought you caught the words "paper" and "mirrors", but brushed it off as so much noise. The ills of wizards had no place in the mind of a bard. No matter how terrifying and powerful the wizard could be at this very moment.

    When the Dame finally took notice, she smiled and pointed towards a simple chair in the middle of the room. This was not menacing in the slightest.

    "I take it you are the Bard? Please do be better than the last one. He was uniquely unsuited for the musical arts."

    You gulped and nodded. You sat in the chair and looked at the tiny, grey cloaked figure across from you. It was at this point you noticed that although there was a raging fire and more than a few candles, its seemed dim at the moment. Where the bloody blazes do the light go. You ruminated about the ills of a wizard (unhealthy, you know) before a polite cough from the Dame came forth.

    "What are you going to play for myself today?"

    "Oh, quite right." You nodded and brought forth your small travel harp. Wasn't much to look at but it has been a faithful companion and kept tune with surprising ease. "Today I was going to sing you the Sonnet of the v...."

    It was at that moment a cat knocked over one of the candles, which thankfully flickered out immediately. Both you and the Dame stare daggers at the cat, which nonchalantly began to bathe itself in response to the silent accusations. You (and shockingly the Dame) both mutter under breath before continuing. Damn Ranald, however it was a sign.

    "I will sing for you the Tragedy of Ser Huebald d'Gisoreux. A brave Bretonnian peasant, whose valour and bravery brought him up to knighthood, but whose inspired jealousy in his peers. It is one of my favourites."

    You sing your song, which you note happily was perfectly on tune. In fact, your performance was so moving you moved yourself by your own performance. Sometimes it's like that as a bard, Ranald above knows that the only one who truly appreciated you in Ohlsdorf was yourself. Perhaps you even saw a tear in one of the Dame's tiny eyes. Who knows, but you did love your work.

    Upon finishing, you bowed and awaited a response from the Grey Wizard. It didn't take long, thankfully, as the awkward silence was filled with a slow nod and a small smile.

    "Thank you bard, you may leave now."

    Taking your harp, you make haste to leave the room for the relative light of the hallway. Regardless of the reaction by the Dame, such a performance created the need for wine. Many, many cups of wine. Perhaps Anton could come, if he wasn't on some mission to enlist improbable aid from somewhere within the Empire. Alas if you shall need to drink alone you will

    Choose one action.
    This is due to waiting for the Spy Mistress' decision on our performance. Luckily Ranald's Blessing came during our song selection and it gave us a boost. You should be happy about that.

    (This is an AU post, you should not actually choose or vote for anything here.)

    [] Personal:
    -[] Your harp is old, restring or replace it while in the city. (unpredictable)
    -[] Brag at the Bard's Guild about performing before the dreaded Sängerkritisch.
    -[] Perform on the street for some pocket change.
    -[] Seek to woo a noble lady. (unpredictable)
    -[] Beg Anton to allow you to go with him on one of his trips.
    -[] Learn a new song [Write in song name]


    Management wishes to remind you that shadow turns are for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as reflective of events in the true quest.
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • As a quest progresses, people care more about their characters, and more bad things happen to those characters. Therefore they want to protect those characters, and the only vehicle they have to do that is the vote.
    Exmorri said:
    Hm.



    Looks to me like we might consider raising the Watch's wages a bit next time finances come up.
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    Van Hal will tell you to piss up a rope.

    This is the man that told us to pay our spy network in patriotism and threats.
     
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