OK, arguments have been persuasive, for the record I hate Johan for delaying the Snake Juice Research again. 
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
We have Ranald's blessing active on the action, two experienced magisters, intelligence from our previous scouting and even more books on skaven. If anything, this is less risky than the previous scouting action. Even a relatively low roll would be fine as long as we are careful and Boney just confirmed we will be.
I've brought up why we should do this action and I've expanded on why it shouldn't be risky. We have thought it through and the plan itself isn't wrong. At this point, it's just that our personal risk assessment differs.
Last edited:
- Location
- Aotearoa
Jeebus. I don't really appreciate the tone, but I'll assume you didn't see my edit where I acknowledge Boneys statement
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
I didn't see your edit, sorry. I was editing mine at the same time.
Sorry about the tone, I tend to need to edit it a few times to get out the dramatics from the stuff I write.
That's fair. I'm not too concerned about that part of the vote, so the disagreement is understandable.
Last edited:
- Location
- Not Telling
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[X] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[x] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel. [ACTION 1][COIN]
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: specify who and how.
--[X] Assist Gunnar with burial rites for Humans
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[x] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
--[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[X] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[x] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel. [ACTION 1][COIN]
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: specify who and how.
--[X] Assist Gunnar with burial rites for Humans
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[x] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
--[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
- Location
- Stupid Lucky Time
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
Changed my vote from Not Plan TNE, as this has most of what I want. And I'm willing to risk the 12 gallons of Wisdom's Asp juice turning our side of the mountain into Rainbow Go-Gurt if it means we spent time with Wolf, talk about dead bodies with Gunnar, and teach the We the wonders of interpretive dance.
Changed my vote from Not Plan TNE, as this has most of what I want. And I'm willing to risk the 12 gallons of Wisdom's Asp juice turning our side of the mountain into Rainbow Go-Gurt if it means we spent time with Wolf, talk about dead bodies with Gunnar, and teach the We the wonders of interpretive dance.
Last edited:
- Location
- Internet, The
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
Would have preferred building a proper lab before the researching the juiced snake, but it seems fine otherwise.
Re: Grounding Rod
Depending what the sword can do, I'd like to either get one of these from the college or see about burning some more favour by getting a magic-removing dwarven tool. Second would probably cost much much more, but could also probably do more stuff than a grounding rod. Anyone else have opinions on this?
Would have preferred building a proper lab before the researching the juiced snake, but it seems fine otherwise.
Re: Grounding Rod
Depending what the sword can do, I'd like to either get one of these from the college or see about burning some more favour by getting a magic-removing dwarven tool. Second would probably cost much much more, but could also probably do more stuff than a grounding rod. Anyone else have opinions on this?
I believe a grounding rod is only 2 favours from the college.
I'm thinking next turn something like.
[ ][ENCHANTMENT] Grounding Rod or [ ][ENCHANTMENT] Grounding Rod, Wings of Heaven. For 2 and 5 favour respectively.
[ ][LIBRARY] Vampires (extensive), Novels (basic). For 150 gold
Last edited:
minimap_op
plsnerf
- Location
- Lower Lefthand Corner
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
I have unofficially adopted all of the We as my babies and I will be darned if any child of mind shall struggle with learning how to read on their own!
Though if you want a more rational reason to teach the We how to read, one of the problems we have with them is that they don't quite get not-We's, right? They have trouble with species that don't communicate through thought and where individual bodies have their own agenda and wishes. Which, to be fair, is a rather hard concept to wrap your head around. It'd be kinda like if the individual cells in the human body had goals separate from "the good of the human".
Well, we happen to have a lot of texts dedicated to individual colliding and the various interpersonal ambitions and relationships intermingling into huge and very human messes. Reading those will give the We insight into how humans view themselves, how we humans think and how not-We's interact in a 'society'.
Yes, let's teach the Hivemind human behavour through romance novels! Which will also nicely skip over me needing to ever give the We "the talk", because I do not know enough about arachnid biology to do so.
Though if you want a more rational reason to teach the We how to read, one of the problems we have with them is that they don't quite get not-We's, right? They have trouble with species that don't communicate through thought and where individual bodies have their own agenda and wishes. Which, to be fair, is a rather hard concept to wrap your head around. It'd be kinda like if the individual cells in the human body had goals separate from "the good of the human".
Well, we happen to have a lot of texts dedicated to individual colliding and the various interpersonal ambitions and relationships intermingling into huge and very human messes. Reading those will give the We insight into how humans view themselves, how we humans think and how not-We's interact in a 'society'.
Yes, let's teach the Hivemind human behavour through romance novels! Which will also nicely skip over me needing to ever give the We "the talk", because I do not know enough about arachnid biology to do so.
Which coincidentally was the same role I had in my public school class.
I see no bad consequences from spawning a Negaverse Mathilde, and it may in fact prove beneficial for my own goals.
I may have misread this initially as "Vampire novels (extensive)" and thought Mathilde had completed her transformation into a Twilight Mom...
Sure. Lemme get to it.
I took the phrasing off the Johann option
E: Word of Boney made it unnecessary
I'd want to be very very carefully probing about such matters before even mentioning anything of the like. Its a touchy human subject thats close to a touchy dwarf subject, and something that Kragg the old grump is the best authority to consult.
More that a fragile magical net inside any creature capable of channeling the Winds actively is going to break unpredictably when they channel the Winds.
Bringing Johann along who's not covered and Night Prowler doesn't work unless we can fake a respectable Skaven Musk.
Maybe if Johann brought a jar or two, but we don't know shit baout him.
We were using Substance of Shadow. We were invisible, intangible and basically not there at all to anyone not using magic to look for us.
Anyway, the rationale of working with Johann on poking Mors is:
-Johann just came back from a frustrating 3 months where he got nothing done on his life's work. Odds are good that whether we work with him or not he's going to double down on poking one of the Skaven clans for his research. As a Magister we can't forbid him short of banishing him from Eight Peaks. As a subordinate we could order him not to do the research but odds are good he'd get even less cooperative
-Johann isn't stupid, nobody gets to Magister by being dumb, they die as Journeymen or never get allowed to leave the Colleges as Apprentices. We can assume he is likely trained and is prepared to acquire Skaven technology without any Dwarf support if he's playing the role of Journeyman. He has stealth, or equipment for the job.
-We don't know anything about his real capabilities, and becoming his boss didn't change it. By joining him on his expedition as fellow magisters, we can get past the bullshit between us that prevents us from using him effectively(which if we can't he's redundant with Max as long as he was pretending to have the spells of a fresh Journeyman rather than what looks like a fairly experienced Magister).
-We know the Mors base layout in complete detail. We don't know anything about the other two Skaven factions, but left to his own devices he's probably going to go poke Skryre for the best tech. By going along with him we channel him towards:
--A skaven faction we're poking this turn in any case. Unless you think putting in an allied faction of critters who find Skaven tasty is somehow going to provoke no response when the spiders already told us that the Skaven response to a Giant Spider Hive is to break out the warpfire throwers to burn them out.
--Providing a diversion for the Spider settlement effort. The spiders are most vulnerable in the first turn, as the place is a Skaven warzone.
--Simultaneously the introduction of the spiders means the Skaven are going to be bringing up their Ratling Guns and Warpfire Throwers. Which means we have increased opportunities to steal these.
-Aggroing Clan Mors is not going to magically make all the Skaven suddenly unify into a single bloc unles they feel existentially threatened.
--Clan Mors at present is fighting Skryre and Moulder. The first response to a weakened Mors backrow is for Skryre and Moulder to seize Mors territory
--Clan Mors are ALSO fighting greenskins and something else. This didn't unify the Skaven any.
--They certainly aren't going to unify against whats effectively two adventurers stealing stuff any more than they were already going to do with the spiders.
We make what he wants to do advance our mission goals.
Uh, you know the Journeyman lab doesn't give any bonus beyond having Journeyman level grounding installed right? Its the same basic lab we learned the spells to replicate in the field. Its meant for our minions and visiting wizards to work in instead of grabbing a bench and applying inadvisable magic. It gives us no bonus because we already have all those tools beyond the grounding and we could just pick some remote mountainside to do it otherwise.
Current trajectory is building the tower, getting that actual tower bonus, and hitting the Snekjuice with a real lab(which we're picking next phase on the midturn) next turn.
Last edited:
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Side note on the subject of teaching the spiders how to read and write, namely how their memory works.
So if we teach them then they will be able to remember things for longer and with more clarity thus allowing the alliance to go on for longer.
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
I've finally discovered something more tedious than catching up on 40 pages of discussion, and that's having to catch up on discussion that almost constantly stays 1-2 pages ahead. Very annoying. Anyway, on to votes.
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
Has most of the things I like, the only thing I'm iffy on being the Reikspiel thing but that's (relatively) minor.
As an aside, it would be nice if plan makers would include all the subvotes their plan covers, even if they're mostly just minor edits of other plans, at least for the initial vote. That way, people can easily check which plans have which options via the in-thread tally or the vote tally option in thread tools. Doing so would likely avoid a situation like Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors, which on the tally is just the plan name and nothing else.
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
Has most of the things I like, the only thing I'm iffy on being the Reikspiel thing but that's (relatively) minor.
As an aside, it would be nice if plan makers would include all the subvotes their plan covers, even if they're mostly just minor edits of other plans, at least for the initial vote. That way, people can easily check which plans have which options via the in-thread tally or the vote tally option in thread tools. Doing so would likely avoid a situation like Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors, which on the tally is just the plan name and nothing else.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
It's the latter, if Johan isn't on a task that specifically helps with the current task from Belegar we better damn well be sure we're likely to succeed at the primary task, if we've got underlings our actions on them should be spent making them work on tasks that either we want or that do the job we have as council leader. There's a little leeway there because as Court Wizard we're expected to also have side tasks that we want to do and so we can use our staff for that if we think they're not needed else where but taking an action which is "Do what you want" is wasteful on every level.
Our underlings have a full pool of actions already, we're taking the equivalent of one or two away from them at most.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on what is "fair" for our relationship with Johann instead of what we can get out of it. IMO the best use we can get out of him is to have him finish his big skaven paper with enough help for our name to be attached. This has the additional benefit that afterwards he will go away.
So...smash and grab only if we find a Doomwheel and joyride away with it to use on the Dragon Ogres?
Anyway more seriously, what I expect of the mission is:
-Mathilde sneaks in with Johann and directly leads him to the motherlodes. Known warpstone caches, armories, the Great Market, etc.
-They will generally speaking try to steal any unattended, man portable Skaven weapon.
--Substance of Shadow and low light environment means Mathilde has a very very loose definition of "man portable"
-If they see any gromril they'd repo it.
-Johann as a Gold Magister should have a number of subtle sabotage methods that could be applied to anything they can't steal.
-They go loud only if they find something ridiculously valuable and unattended and it cannot be obtained otherwise.
-If they run into leadership, a bit of decapitation is usually in order.
- Location
- Internet, The
Yes, I'm pretty sure it costs 2. It is also expected to break if you use it.
The theoretical dwarven variant would be more of a dispelling rod, which can be used however regularly without breaking. Likely based around the spelleater rune but in a way that it works on unstructured magics, not just direct spells. Also without burning the mind of the casters, since that would be bad if you use it on your own miscasts. Also not activating automatically, like the belt, but laying dormant until you actively use it.
Some posters have theorized a cost of 8 dwarven favour, but I'm not that sure.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
I'm not sure they actually are amoral. They agreed with not eating us without any fuzz. They seem to genuinly intent to be nice.
They're very different in mindset, but not bad.
Valarauko
Demon of Power
- Location
- Angband
Sounds like a great idea for a date.So...smash and grab only if we find a Doomwheel and joyride away with it to use on the Dragon Ogres?
Anyway more seriously, what I expect of the mission is:
-Mathilde sneaks in with Johann and directly leads him to the motherlodes. Known warpstone caches, armories, the Great Market, etc.
-They will generally speaking try to steal any unattended, man portable Skaven weapon.
--Substance of Shadow and low light environment means Mathilde has a very very loose definition of "man portable"
-If they see any gromril they'd repo it.
-Johann as a Gold Magister should have a number of subtle sabotage methods that could be applied to anything they can't steal.
-They go loud only if they find something ridiculously valuable and unattended and it cannot be obtained otherwise.
-If they run into leadership, a bit of decapitation is usually in order.
Last edited:
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
[Max] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
[Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
[EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
[SOCIAL] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
[PENTHOUSE] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
[Free] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel. [ACTION 1][COIN]
Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, assist him with human burial rites.
You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
Write in: You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Help Johann poke Clan Mors
The Gambler: Poke Clan Mors
I'm voting for this.
This will also give us the ability to setup a room for the Snek juice with an actual lab with good stuff inside it instead of the more make shift equipment we had previously. We'll the get the chance to drop five Dwarf favour on a magical lab at the end of this turn and next turn we do the snake juice action which a magically inert room with be much better at.
We're setting up the shrine and will have the chance to do something with it later to hopefully influence the growth of Ranald.
Wolfy hasn't had a single action spent on him in what nearly a year? Come on. Also the potential familiar power gains are massive as well, reminder that one of the powers is "You get two free rerolls every day"
Spending time with Gunnar does a lot of good, works on advancing our great sword trait, he's the piety councillor and currently tending to the dead for all the cultures in K8P, we have morrrite lore we can share with him on how to properly tend to the burial of humans. It's a good way to bond as well.
Citadel nest action puts them in the perfect position to launch raids on skaven. Investigating mors with Johann gives us the chance to snag more goodies as well not for our own research but for our underlings in a way that will give us credit with the colleges. So we'll get college favour there. Also I just in general want to continue with the whole "Wizard goes off and comes back having done shenanigans"
[Max] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
[Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
[EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
[SOCIAL] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
[PENTHOUSE] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
[Free] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel. [ACTION 1][COIN]
Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, assist him with human burial rites.
You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
Write in: You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Help Johann poke Clan Mors
The Gambler: Poke Clan Mors
I'm voting for this.
This will also give us the ability to setup a room for the Snek juice with an actual lab with good stuff inside it instead of the more make shift equipment we had previously. We'll the get the chance to drop five Dwarf favour on a magical lab at the end of this turn and next turn we do the snake juice action which a magically inert room with be much better at.
We're setting up the shrine and will have the chance to do something with it later to hopefully influence the growth of Ranald.
Wolfy hasn't had a single action spent on him in what nearly a year? Come on. Also the potential familiar power gains are massive as well, reminder that one of the powers is "You get two free rerolls every day"
Spending time with Gunnar does a lot of good, works on advancing our great sword trait, he's the piety councillor and currently tending to the dead for all the cultures in K8P, we have morrrite lore we can share with him on how to properly tend to the burial of humans. It's a good way to bond as well.
Citadel nest action puts them in the perfect position to launch raids on skaven. Investigating mors with Johann gives us the chance to snag more goodies as well not for our own research but for our underlings in a way that will give us credit with the colleges. So we'll get college favour there. Also I just in general want to continue with the whole "Wizard goes off and comes back having done shenanigans"
Last edited: