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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] An item enchanted with Talk With Beast to give to the spiders (3 favors)


[X] [RUNE] No purchase.
[X] [RUNE] 15 Favour Sword
[X] [RUNE] 10 favour sword
[X] [RUNE] Ranger's Greatsword 15 Favor
 
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Quick question are golems a thing in warhammer? Statues brought to life to do battle/heavy lifting. The closest I can think of is the green skin idols but is there a forces of order equivalent?
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Actually, there's an easy way to check this: @BoneyM, would our sword qualify as the "symbol of victory" being voted for by sword voters, and how offended would the dwarves be if we tried to make it so, or made the recommendation on that basis?
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If she performs great deeds with the sword it is likely to become recognized as such. The armour would provide more than a single weapon's worth, so Mathilde doesn't have to claim her own portion as the sole symbol.
 
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Karugus said:
Isn't that the tone of Belegar's message? Not even to reclaim the glories of Old but to forge something new and wondrous yet?

Isn't that why he and Thorgrim butted heads? Because he couldn't see the sacrifices made for something new and beautiful rather than to avenge something old and forever lost?

That there can be no grand reclamation to recreate the Karak Ankor but that there doesn't need to be? It's not the original treasure, and it's way more radical a message but that doesn't mean it isn't powerful. In the end I think a fairer question to ask is 'do we want the Gromril to be a symbol of retaking the old, or of forging something anew?' We already got thrown out of the capital for our beliefs, taking it further doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch.
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And that would be great if the option didn't seem irrevocably intertwined with "getting the materials to make Mathilde's ubersword."
 
Kornet said:
A learning advisor is not really a post. It is a multitude of different posts with duties which have very little overlap which happen to compete for the same council slot.

Case in point: a dwarven learning advisor can be an engineer or a runepriest, yet only one of them pokes magic stuff with a hammer.
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Pretty much my point: we're in a role that, by tradition, doesn't involve stealthiness or sneakiness. Our role is one that is typically filled by someone who is relatively straightforward and blunt and direct in dealing with problems, and whilst that certainly doesn't obligate us to take that approach (we'd be pretty poor at it anyway), it likely will have shaped the expectation of how we'll handle things and thus our expected duties.

Anyway, agree to disagree?
 
Dutchman said:
Quick question are golems a thing in warhammer? Statues brought to life to do battle/heavy lifting. The closest I can think of is the green skin idols but is there a forces of order equivalent?
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They are. The Dawi have what are known as "Ancestor Golems", animated by rune magic, which can range from ogre sized to small hill sized. The Cathayans have them, as shown in Tamurkhan, and the most famous users of them were the Nehekharans, who have quite a wide variety of them.
 
NSMS said:
That's called differential hardening, and it's only used in certain sword designs. Tempering steel in the right way by and large does away with any need for it.
A longsword is a two-handed sword, and they were used perfectly well on battlefields throughout history. Same goes for arming swords (one-handed swords). Larger swords have their place, but they're not automatically better and they come with their own problems- you can use them with a shield, they're more fatiguing to use, etc. Though honestly, on a battlefield? You probably don't want a sword as a primary weapon anyway, especially not if you're going up against armoured enemies. Axes, polearms, etc, might not be a pretty or easy to carry, but they tend to be more lethal against any enemy with decent protection.
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Longswords and arming swords are secondary weapons, which are switched to after you lose, or can't use your primary. Unless you're talking about the kind of long sword with a 110cm blade, which would probably fall under greatsword.

Actually, that's why you'd use a zweihander or similar size blade (as ever,classifying medieval weaponry is a fun exercise in frustration) because it has enough mass to go straight through armour, but yes, hammers and axes are much better for that. Greatswords have the advantage of being dangerous all along the length though, unlike a hammer or axe or polearm. Polearms are generally better for the fact it requires less training (stab them with that end is pretty much the basics) so it's easy to get more men. Basically, all weapons have advantages and disadvantages. Short swords are really bad at getting through armour, but are easy to carry, etc.

chocolote12 said:
Gromril is... Not invincible, but I don't think it works like regular metals.
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I don't see why it wouldn't. It basically reads like extra tough steel.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
They are. The Dawi have what are known as "Ancestor Golems", animated by rune magic, which can range from ogre sized to small hill sized. The Cathayans have them, as shown in Tamurkhan, and the most famous users of them were the Nehekharans, who have quite a wide variety of them.
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Yes but critically the dwarves can't even make use of the golems any more. They lost the knowledge to even activate them. So they're pretty much just statues now.

deathofrats0808 said:
I don't see why it wouldn't. It basically reads like extra tough steel.
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Gromril is pretty much the next best thing to indestructible. It can be broken but you're talking the kind of punishment that would break pretty much anything in existence it's the toughest material in the setting iirc.
 
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Alratan said:
Most likely, given where we are? Probably Karak Eight Peaks. Forged gromil is almost indestructible, and only the dwarves know how to (re)forge it, so these plates could have been being recycled for millennia
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Or Karak Azul, best traditional smithing hold which is right next door, and whose King already swore to shave his beard if K8P were to fall again.
 
[X] Lupercal

I'm still about thirty pages behind and I'm planning to sleep for about fourteen hours. This person is mostly voting for the options I want. Thanks, @Lupercal, for allowing me to avoid copying and pasting a bunch of stuff.
 
NSMS said:
Pretty much my point: we're in a role that, by tradition, doesn't involve stealthiness or sneakiness. Our role is one that is typically filled by someone who is relatively straightforward and blunt and direct in dealing with problems, and whilst that certainly doesn't obligate us to take that approach (we'd be pretty poor at it anyway), it likely will have shaped the expectation of how we'll handle things and thus our expected duties.

Anyway, agree to disagree?
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Yeah, agree to disagree.
 
ichypa said:
And that would be great if the option didn't seem irrevocably intertwined with "getting the materials to make Mathilde's ubersword."
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I don't see why the idea is so grotesque to you if we intend to use that sword for the good of the Karak and dwafkind as a whole. Like yeah it's not totally selfless, but we're not exactly taking advantage of some inexperienced beardlings here. The dwarves are smart enough to know what they're getting into if they go along with our suggestion of using it as a commemoration.
 
Dutchman said:
Quick question are golems a thing in warhammer? Statues brought to life to do battle/heavy lifting. The closest I can think of is the green skin idols but is there a forces of order equivalent?
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The Master Rune of Awakening is lost, so the dwarves can't make them anymore, but the Colleges can. That's what many kinds of familiar are.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Longswords and arming swords are secondary weapons, which are switched to after you lose, or can't use your primary. Unless you're talking about the kind of long sword with a 110cm blade, which would probably fall under greatsword.
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That's... pretty much what I said?
deathofrats0808 said:
Actually, that's why you'd use a zweihander or similar size blade (as ever,classifying medieval weaponry is a fun exercise in frustration) because it has enough mass to go straight through armour, but yes, hammers and axes are much better for that. Greatswords have the advantage of being dangerous all along the length though, unlike a hammer or axe or polearm. Polearms are generally better for the fact it requires less training (stab them with that end is pretty much the basics) so it's easy to get more men. Basically, all weapons have advantages and disadvantages. Short swords are really bad at getting through armour, but are easy to carry, etc.
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Zweihanders won't actually make it through serious armour (proper plate or even decent chainmail, though they'll probably break bones in the case of the latter). Swords are just poor weapons in general against armour, and making them bigger doesn't really solve that problem.
 
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

I want someone focused on trade, so he's the best option.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.

Another way to disrupt the Skaven and prevent them from focusing on us is very useful, and this option is surely going to be more palatable to the other inhabitants of the Karak than full on integration.

[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword

The arguments have been made already, so I'll just say I think it's worth spending 25 DF here to get and endgame weapon just to avoid ever having this debate again. Apart from that, just looking at the favor shop prices it's clear to see favor has an outsized impact when spent all at once instead of in small doses, so a 25 DF weapon (ideally made from Gromril) is surely going to save Mathilde's skin in the future.


[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.

I like continuing the idea of K8P reforging the old into something new, as a sort of second silver age of the dwarves instead of just using the cast-offs of old relics of a better age.

Also of note is we have WoGM that it's possible some of the gromril could go into our comission if we spend 25 DF, and that's something to keep in mind.


[] [ENCHANTMENT] An item enchanted with Talk With Beast to give to the spiders (3 favors)

I think this is needed for any SPIDERS option beyond just letting them go, unless we get Amber wizards to permanently reside in K8P.

Now that I think about it, we can probably delay getting this until after the Council meeting, as we don't want to spend 3 CF if we are just letting them go.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Yes but critically the dwarves can't even make use of the golems any more. They lost the knowledge to even activate them. So they're pretty much just statues now.



Gromril is pretty much the next best thing to indestructible. It can be broken but you're talking the kind of punishment that would break pretty much anything in existence it's the toughest material in the setting iirc.
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second toughest material in the setting from what I understand, beaten out by Glimril, the stuff the White Dwarf has in his armor... also, maybe whatever Ghal Maraz is made out of??? Both I think beat out Gromril for toughness/strength. Then the weapons of the ancestor Gods of the Dwarfs are likely also made out of something at least better than normal Gromril.
 
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