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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
All the talk of dramatic troupes and "Lady Sotto Voce" made me wonder what an in-universe dramatisation of the Stirland arc would look like, and then the Muses put me in a headlock and forced me to write the above. Also I wrote half of it drunk, half of it hungover, and all of it on my phone's notes app, so any errors are entirely of my own making.
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Oooh this is fun. I'm a sucker for in-setting stageplays and media like this. Gives a great perspective on how people react and believe. Also funny to see how Mathilde's character and actions might be viewed from outside.
Boney said:
It would give me a pick to wield in this whole situation." He looks to you. "For this to not come across as you intruding on business that you shouldn't, I would have to cast you as the avalanche that uncovered the seam. Not the most flattering role."
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Meowthilde, continuing to drop dead prey troublesome but useful things on Belegar's doorstep. At this rate, if/when he has kids, he's going to tell them:
"Find a manling wizardling and befriend them. For better or worse, it's an investment that will pay off for the rest of their lives, and probably afterward."
Boney said:
"It also has some folkloric weight to it," Egrimm muses. "An instrument that twists itself off-key in the presence of danger is the sort of thing I'm sure I've heard a folktale about somewhere. And if we say it works because it's made from some sort of holy wood or something, that'll be that much easier for some to accept."
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Well, I guess now all those WHFTTRPG parties will know when something is wrong in the backwater village:

The BGM will change.
 
reignonyrparade said:
On the matter of "Only ever good for that minority, almost always detrimental to the state or people as a whole" by my understanding, historically China had fairly frequent (in a relative sense, so like, every century or so) 'We Want There To Be Fewer Slaves As A Matter Of Economic Policy' drives because it turns out it's a lot easier to extract taxes out of peasants than land-and-slave-owning aristocrats. Not to the point of full on abolition but like "Okay only these classes get to have slaves, they're limited to these fairly small numbers, gotta actually be criminals instead of letting people sell family/themselves to pay debts, etc." They really only took in limited amounts because slavery was in fact good for the land-and-slave-owning aristocrats (hence it needing to happen multiple times) but it does demonstrate this sort of analysis isn't just outside-looking-in analysis done with the benefit of distance from the practice but something that could absolutely be identified from within those societies.
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The Druuchi are an interesting case in that they devote a lot of their productivity towards finding and capturing slaves (and transporting them around) so that slaves can do menial but necessary work in their stead...while the rest of their society devotes a lot of lives and productivity towards wasteful and redundant ends (backstabbing, internal power politics, pleasure cults, raiding poor coastal villages, warring with Ulthuan, wanton murder, torture and abuse of slaves).

It feels like it's only Malekith's obsession with reclaiming Ulthuan that gives the Druuchi purpose beyond petty cruelty/chaos and defending against Chaos intrusions to the north. If Malekith died, it feels like the druuchi would descend into civil strife with Morathi's stupid machinations on one side and the more pragmatic druuchi on the other.

Which fits with the druuchi's themes, though. It's all for Malekith and Morathi, in the end. The suffering of the many for the benefit of the few, taken to something of an extreme. They run a partial slave economy on one hand and a wasteful economy on the other hand because forcing cruelty and suffering onto others through power and force is the kind of convenient personal path Malekith would espouse. It's a wonder the druuchi aren't going the way of Sparta, with the wealth, political power, and social standing being increasingly concentrated into fewer and fewer people until the military might of the state becomes a pathetic shadow of its former self and the economy even poorer than it already was for its size. I guess it helps that the druuchi seem to believe that it is virtuous to actually accomplish things and do work rather than laze about constantly.
 
NexusEye said:
What exactly is the pun if you don't mind me asking for non-greek speakers?
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Romv said:
Why, it's Homeros' famous catchphrase: D'oh!
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Specifically, it's a drawn-out disappointed D'oh, as opposed to one of his pained or frustrated D'ohs, which I would write with an acute accent or possibly even ο instead of ω.

Did I put too much effort into finding an online keyboard with the right diacritics? Absolutely. But, come on, would you expect anything else from me of all people?
 
SaltyWaffles said:
It's a wonder the druuchi aren't going the way of Sparta, with the wealth, political power, and social standing being increasingly concentrated into fewer and fewer people until the military might of the state becomes a pathetic shadow of its former self and the economy even poorer than it already was for its size. I guess it helps that the druuchi seem to believe that it is virtuous to actually accomplish things and do work rather than laze about constantly.
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As the saying goes, there is always as many Dark Elves as the plot needs.

If Warhammer was actualy an hyper-realistic setting rather than a Dark Fantasy setting working on Great Man Theory, the Druchii would't have lasted as long as they did, because hyper-militaristic and expansionistic societies like them rarely managed to last more than a century in real life.

With Sparta begin the most famous exemple, as you pointed out.

The famous hyper-militaristic phase of their history lasted one or two centuries, before they were forced to return to begin a normal Greek city-state, albeit still a pretty militaristic one.

Other exemples coming close to what the Druchii are include mostly military dictatorships and juntas or other similar regimes, with a Cult of Personality for the Great Leader that Cannot Fail But Only Be Failed (Malekith), and an extremely centralized government that will inevitably crumble to dust when Dear Leader finnaly kicks the bucket and all the generals and oligarchs start fighting each other to estabilish who is the new top dog in the neighbourhood.
 
picklepikkl said:
Specifically, it's a drawn-out disappointed D'oh, as opposed to one of his pained or frustrated D'ohs, which I would write with an acute accent or possibly even ο instead of ω.

Did I put too much effort into finding an online keyboard with the right diacritics? Absolutely. But, come on, would you expect anything else from me of all people?
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Did you know you can insert latex expressions into forum posts?
LaTeX:
\[ \Deltaʹ \tilde{\omega} \]
That way you can instead put in entirely too much effort into looking up latex commands.
 
Parabola said:
:V But what about the version of the play in Hochland where it turns out that the Dammerlichter disguised herself as the Hunter Count's daughter, which is why no-one had heard about "Roswita" before? Poor Hochland gets ignored yet again.
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Why would I consider a version of a play that was written in a non-existent place?
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Amongst many of the performers who practice this play, it is considered bad luck to speak the true name of the Dämmerlichtreiter.
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In case anyone was wondering, this superstition has absolutely nothing to do with the time an amateur playwright was nearly lynched after he made Mathilde's dialogue consist of nothing but awful puns.

It's just bad luck for the Dämmerlichtreiter to speak, that's all. No deeper meaning here.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
In case anyone was wondering, this superstition has absolutely nothing to do with the time an amateur playwright was nearly lynched after he made Mathilde's dialogue consist of nothing but awful puns.

It's just bad luck for the Dämmerlichtreiter to speak, that's all. No deeper meaning here.
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This is pop history, and very much not settled in academic circles. The playwright made his escape*, but modern literary analysis and exhaustive archival research has shown that the author most likely continued into a semi-professional career (now without a pen name) after receiving a fairly cushy EIC position, where the number of puns did the opposite of decrease. He even wrote Mathilde Weber again! Though sadly, we only know this from reference, since the works in question did not survive. While his plays have mostly fallen out of memory, you can still find traces here and there in modern works. Some of the lines in "Barons of Blutdorf" are adapted from some of his works, as the most popular example.

Anyway, if you want to know more I really recommend "Puns and Punishment: Of Trans Temporal Cultural Cachet" by Mechthild Tuchmacher. She did great work on the book, and you should give her money so she can pay for medicine for the lung infections she no doubt must've caught diving into the Stirland archives to find some of those documents.

*Incidentally, you should definitely read the report on that. The dry yet long suffering tone is amazing, and anything filed under Ranald Shenanigans is bound to be great.
 
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Altom said:
The province. Would be difficult to claim Hochland doesn't exist if KaK archives say Alaric gave a Runefang to it.
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Hochland was given a Runefang. Or, well, the Cherusens. The important thing to note here is that the Runefangs were given to the tribes, of whom most but not all correspond pretty directly to the contemporary provinces.

  • Dragon Tooth - Unberogens - Reikland
  • Legbiter - Teutogens - Middenland
  • Stone Breaker - Taleutens - Talebecland
  • Goblin Bane - Cherusens - Hochland
  • Brain Wounder - Udoses - Ostland
  • Troll Cleaver - Ostagoths - Ostermark
  • Orc Hewer - Asoborns - Stirland
  • Mother's Ruin - Brigundians - Averland
  • Blood Bringer - Merogens - Wissenland

This just leaves three outliers:
  • Beast Slayer, which was given to the Thuringians, who would form the Drakwald province, and which would eventually be destroyed by Beastmen. Beast Slayer would then be recovered (or perhaps will yet be, in-quest, I'm not too clear on when it is recovered in canon) and would be kept in the Imperial Armory, to be given to trusted generals or heroes in time of need.
  • Grudge Settler, which was given to the Menogoths, who would form the province of Solland, and which would later go on to be destroyed by Gorbad Ironclaw and his Waaagh. Grudge Settler was recovered and possession of it passed to the Emperor, who would proceed to traditionally give it to the Reiksmarshal for use (I think the last time this discussion came about someone argued it probably was already recovered).
You might notice at this point that the Westerlands and Nordland are missing. Well, this discrepancy is at least answered by in-quest-canon:

Boney said:
Nordland was not one of the founding provinces of the Empire - its Runefang, Crow Feeder, was originally granted to the Endals. But Middenland brought it into the fold by force during the March to the Frontiers as a vassal, bleeding it of silver until the era of Drakwald Emperors, where Emperor Boris Goldgather granted Nordland independence and a Runefang to weaken his family's ancestral rivals in Middenland.
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I don't think we ever asked Boney how exactly Boris Goldgather got Crow Feeder and gave it to Nordland, though? I can't imagine Marienburg/the Westerlands of the time would have been very pleased with the idea that their Runefang, symbol of independence, would be given to a new province.

Maybe Boris Goldgather gave the nascent Nordland Beast Slayer or Grudge Settler, and then when Marienburg split off there was a shuffle of Runefangs because it was argued that the Nordlanders would have had a better claim of the Endals Runefang, or something?? I don't know, that feels like a stretch.
 
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So looking at the character sheet, any ideas why the MAPP is under pending long term impact alongside the effects of K8P? Just seems kinda odd is all.
 
Parabola said:
Maybe Boris Goldgather gave the nascent Nordland Beast Slayer or Grudge Settler, and then when Marienburg split off there was a shuffle of Runefangs because it was argued that the Nordlanders would have had a better claim of the Endals Runefang, or something?? I don't know, that feels like a stretch.
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Definitely not Grudge Settler, that was still in Solland's hands when they fought Gorebad ~700 years later.

(We can be certain of this, because the wounds it caused Gorebad are specifically noted in the text)

And giving them Beast Slayer seems unlikely- Boris Goldgatherer was corrupt as hell, but I don't think he'd give Nordland his own province's Runefang.
 
Mopman43 said:
Definitely not Grudge Settler, that was still in Solland's hands when they fought Gorebad ~700 years later.

(We can be certain of this, because the wounds it caused Gorebad are specifically noted in the text)

And giving them Beast Slayer seems unlikely- Boris Goldgatherer was corrupt as hell, but I don't think he'd give Nordland his own province's Runefang.
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Right, of course. Sorry, my mind's a bit of a mess today. Though that still doesn't answer how exactly he gave them Crow Feeder.

Was the Marienburg of the time already at the point of 'sure, you can give them our Runefang, just give us money'? Did he take it by force and this was a factor in them later splitting off? It's food for thought.
 
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Maybe we can see a play as a social action? Mathilde does care about her legend given how she flavoured the apparition spell.
 
Having a runefang in a province implicitly means there is one and only one legitimate ruler, determined by inheritance of military responsibility.

I can see a council of merchants ditching that symbol with little regret.
 
Glau said:
Having a runefang in a province implicitly means there is one and only one legitimate ruler, determined by inheritance of military responsibility.

I can see a council of merchants ditching that symbol with little regret.
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Timeline doesn't match up though, if the Runefang was given by Boris Goldgatherer ~1111 IC.

The last Baron of Westerland died during the Great War Against Chaos ~2302 IC, the merchants didn't take over until after that.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
"The Hunter Count's Shadow". The full script is perhaps my finest work, and it could not have been completed without your most generous patronage.
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my finest work thus far
Orbmorb said:
I think this would be the one cultural opportunity to set the record straight by having the Dammerlichteriter take Abelheim's hat when he dies in the second act. Or not be wearing it until she reappears at the end of the third act
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Honestly, the actual sequence of events with the hat makes for amazing theatre:

No hat, goes to fight with Abelhelm. Abelhelm falls, Dammerlichteriter takes up sword.
Reinforcements arrive, there poignant moment as Abelhelm dies (on battlefield, to save time), Dammerlichteriter puts on hat. Destroys castle.

Dammerlichteriter (not wearing hat) is fired by Rowsitea, goes home gets runefang, gives Rowsitea the runefang, (note: not sure how to condense this story beat) returns home.

Goes to hat on shelf. Picks up hat and looks at it. Moves to put it back. Pauses. Puts on hat. Stands taller. Determined. Quotes a line Abelhelm said: "To change the world we live in"[1][2]

(maybe the scene where "goes home to get runefang" can be where the hat-shelf stuff happens?)
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[1] So that makes it two lines the Dammerlichteriter speaks
[2] Might be a mistake to have this, as without the context of "make things less shit", [change] on its own sounds kinda Changer-is.
 
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