Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a "first one is free" kinda deal, only, it's not drugs.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
What about the Asur rep we would get from destroying the raiders?
I can't imagine the Asur would be too upset if we told them "a Druchii paid me to kill lots of Druchii, who were already on their way to fight me anyway".
Or the alternative, assuming we have to pay them for the privilege of destroying their rivals:
"I bribed a Druchii to reveal vital military information, with which I was able to kill a lot of Druchii."
Okay, so we do it once and then walk away. Contrary to popular belief, killing Druchii isn't actually addictive. If doing it a second time requires resources we're not willing to spend, then we don't actually have to do it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I imagine there is a situation where this would constitute starting a fight we can't finish - going from not that bothered by raiders and thus not dependent on intel, to being specifically targeted and very dependent on that intel.
I can't back that up with anything, it's just spitballing tbh.
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Personally, and I'd wager I'm far from alone in this, I'm completely neutral on Druuchi negotiations. Which is bad news for its chances, in this quest where getting even the stuff you really like onto a plan vote is far from guaranteed. I don't care to argue for or against it, or really put any thought into it whatsoever.
Yeah, it would probably be cool, we wouldn't necessarily be selling our soul, I don't have an issue with a strategic choice here. It's just competing with a dozen things that are just as cool, half a dozen things I'd rather fight for, and it's complicated and controversial on top of that.
It's best chances probably lie in sneaking onto a banger of a plan, honestly. I can't count how many times I've voted for things I don't mind for the sake of things I very much do.
Yeah, it would probably be cool, we wouldn't necessarily be selling our soul, I don't have an issue with a strategic choice here. It's just competing with a dozen things that are just as cool, half a dozen things I'd rather fight for, and it's complicated and controversial on top of that.
It's best chances probably lie in sneaking onto a banger of a plan, honestly. I can't count how many times I've voted for things I don't mind for the sake of things I very much do.
That's why we sell the info to a third party and let them earn the raiders' ire.
- Location
- Who knows?
I'd say it's a general credibility issue. Like no one's ever gonna reasonably think Alith Anar is gonna get swayed by the Druchii (shutupnoEndTimes). So if hes consorting with the Druchii its for a larger plan to fuck them over. Mathilde the human wizard who did them a single cool thing/the Empire in general? Probably less so. In the most recent update the King of Barak Varr and Zhufbar were willing to do things on just Mathilde's and Thorek since they've earned boatloads of credibility with the Dwarfs. Mathilde and the institutions she works for hasn't really had the time or chances to similarly prove herself to the Asur/Nagarythe specifically.
- Location
- Greece
Ok, so we buy the info about the Druchi and sell it to the Norscans, then we sell the info about the Norscans to the Dawi Zwarr, then we sell the info about the Dawi Zwarr to the Skaven, then we sell the info about the Skaven to the orcs, then we sell the info about the orcs to the vampire lords, then we sell the info about the vampire lords to the Druchi.
Foolproof.
Edit: On reread, this souunds like I am making fun of the suggestion. I am not. I just thought this would be a funny gag when reading it.
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- Location
- Australia
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
There are two things that you are completely ignoring when you say something like that and it makes me question wheter you actually understand what the option is.
First is that we are not making a grand proclaming of an alliance with Druchii. We are making a secret deal with invidual/small group to bribe them. This will only work if we keep the deal secret. And despite how much they might wish for Ulthan is still not omniscient to learn such secrets ex nilho.
Second is concept of bribing enemy traitors so they betray their fellows is well established tactic to use against the enemies. It is inheretly hostile act. Just by using it against the Druchii Empire is declaring the Druchii an enemy/hostile state. So how in the hell does that lowers Asurs opinion of us? Despite Druchiis might wish for it, Ulthan is not ruled by morons.
So all told, you are wrong on this, there might be other costs but Ulthan rep is not on that list.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Probably because they're risking almost nothing. Malekith either shrugs and goes "it's not treachery against me, so I don't care", or he gets pissy and horribly murders Ylrishen, Maktig and one or two of their backers. And everyone else profits off the influence and treasure the dead left behind. The likelihood of Malekith bothering to find and kill everyone pushing this plan is small, and the reward is good.
Slight tangent, do we actually know anything about how capable the Empire's fleet is when it comes to chasing down and defeating Druchii raiders? As I understand it the Druchii are contenders for being the greatest naval power on the planet, constantly testing themselves against the other contender for that title. How many Wolfships are needed to reliably outfight a Corsair? Can Wolfships catch a Corsair that sees them coming?
I have no doubt that the Navy would try to fight any raid they learn about. What I don't have enough info to be confident of is how sucessful they would be.
I have no doubt that the Navy would try to fight any raid they learn about. What I don't have enough info to be confident of is how sucessful they would be.
- Location
- Washington
Even before the point where it's not profitable you hit a point where it's more profitable to look elsewhere/profitable but insufficient to fund the raiders' lifestyle back home.
- Location
- Germany
That sounds very rational.
If you are a Druchii Dreadlord and some mayflies have just cut into your profits, sunk some of your ships, damaged your reputation, wouldn't you be tempted to go with your Black Arc and send a message?
The Druchii would have the higher escalation-potential here, unless the Asur intervene on behalf of the Empire.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
On the other hand, a Black Ark is a very expensive target to gamble, and for the past couple hundred years getting Comet of Cassandora'd has become a distinct possibility on every deployment (on the Empire's coastline, anyways; Grail Prophetesses means that it's been a risk when raiding Bretonnia for a good while longer).
- Location
- Germany
Yeah, but I think a real Black Arc could take a few of those.
Outside of the Asur hearing about your Arc's movements and preparing and ambush with overwhelming firepower there isn't much on the seas that can bring one down.
That depends entirely on the kind of Black Ark the Dreadlord owns. If it's just a bit of fortification being tugged by a sea serpent, well, he's not going to risk things. If it's one of the big floating city Black Arks, you probably get a stern letter from Malekith asking what the fuck you are doing with a strategic asset, complete with orders to not go haring off to bully some largely land-locked humans with said asset.
You can't force a naval engagement with a fleet on their own shoreline, they just retreat into port behind arbitrary numbers of unsinkable cannon batteries. At that point the only options are to blockade or invade. The Empire would barely notice Norden being blockaded, would celebrate Marienburg being blockaded, and would lol and lmao if Erengrad gets blockaded and Niedzwenka takes a brief break from the Waystone Project. As for invasion, the Empire has the higher escalation potential when you're talking about an engagement that can only happen on the Empire's soil, and disgorging the crew of a Black Ark to fight a land battle leaves the Black Ark vulnerable to the fleet that's still there.
For future reference see the ongoing Arc of DoDA.
It also seems very likely that anyone important enough to have a Black Ark is also important enough to have a number of peers who would be delighted to take advantage of their absence on an unprofitable enough enterprise, and Malekith might even smile on a knife being stabbed into the back of anyone who squanders that kind of military asset. It would be like an Elector taking offense to a Cathayan official stopping a trade caravan they'd invested in and sending their state troops on a years long expedition to burn their town down when they could be doing so many more important things.
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- Location
- Greece
While that sounds true, it is much less conforting than Boney's answer.
A lot of people assume everyone is a rational actor when it comes to such moves, which is not true even when it comes to people placed high in cuthroat societies. All a Druchii has to do to be placed high up is be good at killing other Druchii, and anyone who has read aPGtE knows this does not, actually, result in competence.
Boney's post, on the other hand, is more compelling not because it reassures us they'll act rationally, but because it reassures us the Empire will benefit even if they do not, in fact, especially if they do not.
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consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
There are also a large number of equally irrational actors waiting to stab the first irrational actor in the back at the first sign of weakness, if not before. Revengeapalooza because you got spanked by the mayflies isn't going to earn you favor in any quarter.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Although I like your references, what is true for Dread Emperors isn't exactly true for Druchii aristocrats. The later needs to show at least some basic military competence, otherwise their rivals or Malekith will punish them for it. Being good at killing Druchii needs being good at not doing things that would fatally weaken you.
- Location
- Greece
I got two objections here:
1) Yeah, so? A man still gets killed if an idiot kills him in the middle of a street in wrath even if the police arrests the idiot. Not everyone is a rational actor, and surviving the snake pit of the Druuchi does not mean, necessarilly, that you will keep surviving, for it could be luck or a special ability that does not translate to wise decisions, or backstabbing of others or even being a useful compromise idiot.
2) One could argue just as easily that allowing the mayflies to thwack one's nose is what shows true weakness to compariots. One sees, if one looks in history, that these kind of regimes that are based on the will of the strong are full of wasteful and self inflicted harm inducing displays of strength, for no one can appear weak without being devoured. So the need to address the embarassment even with inefficient means so as to not appear an easy target to the other snakes may regardless be the optimal scenario for survival, for appearance of weakness can be more lethal than actual weakness in such a culture.
Being incompetent in war is not the fault that brought down most Dread Emperors, it was prioritising emotion over practicality and pattern recognition, a fault the Druchii are just as susceptible to. Heck, the Asur are susceptible to.... scratch that, EVERY FACTION is susceptible to. Apart from maybe the lizardmen, who prioritise instructions.
You can say that a Druchii who invests a lot of resources to a stupid revenge mission because of pride would have been removed? Well, what about a Dawi king that does the same? How can he keep being a king when he acts like that? The impetii favoring vengefulness may be different between the two cultures, but they exist in both, Naggaroth is built on spite.
Heck, just look at Drycha, who has more reasons to be smart than the average Druchi aristocrat, commiting blunder after blunder due to cultural impetii and harming Kislev in the process even though it hurt her more in the end. She only survived that cuz she was immortal.
So yeah, I do believe that being dangerously stupid is a possibility.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Well yeah, no shit. But counting on the enemy being suicidally stupid isn't a good strategy.