Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I know that i am suggesting this for one of the richest people in the empire but would we be able to commission a runic item that makes Heldi immune to fire like us so that no matter how fiery Manderd gets in the future, Heldi will still be able to hug/embrace him? Or is this something we don't have to worry about because once again she is the empress and if she wanted something like that she could get it.
Arcane Marks for Aqshy don't get that bad. Of the canonical ones, the closest it gets is getting feverishly warm skin and a flushed appearance, not... "literally harm the people who touch you".
 
So... we are finishing the book on Aethyric Vitae this turn... are we turning in our Orbs of Sorcery alongside the book, or what's the plan?
 
Also she is an empress. If they do get that bad she can commission an item of fire immunity.
I don't think they would necessarily get that bad. Arcane Marks are reflections of a wizard's soul in reality. As Mathilde demonstrated by being able to make her shadow stay still, it's likely that even an Arcane Mark such as "hair is literally on fire ala Sienna Fuegonasus" could be muted by actively examining your soul and growing more familiarized with it.
 
I don't think they would necessarily get that bad. Arcane Marks are reflections of a wizard's soul in reality. As Mathilde demonstrated by being able to make her shadow stay still, it's likely that even an Arcane Mark such as "hair is literally on fire ala Sienna Fuegonasus" could be muted by actively examining your soul and growing more familiarized with it.

Oh I agree it's very unlikely to be a problem , just pointing out there are solutions external to developing more control too. Also if you have the resources they are probably more reliable than trying to control the definitionally subconscious portions of one's soul
 
Arcane Marks for Aqshy don't get that bad. Of the canonical ones, the closest it gets is getting feverishly warm skin and a flushed appearance, not... "literally harm the people who touch you".
I think one of the DL Canon ones is head literally on fire? Mentioned when Rosi complaints about her cats.
That could hurt someone, though Mandred is old enough he should be smarter than touching the hot stuff.
 
Been sick a couple of days, just finished catching up on the thread. Personally definitely I'm in favor of dealing with the Druchii to screw over other Druchii and am leaning towards trading knowledge for knowledge with the Druchii, stuff like descriptions of Dragon-Ogres possibly with some samples, a basic description of the Windfall, a bog octopus in a tank, one of those Skull-faced piranha from Skull River in a fish tank, information that can't really be weaponized but is of novelty value to them. In exchange we get juicy bit of magical knowledge from Nagarythe.

Sure there might be traps in them but it's sabotaging magical theoretical knowledge is a difficult balancing act especially when the person who's going to be examining them for any traps is very suspicious of anything that hasn't been vetted, is very good at magical theory, is very good at analyzing magical theory, is very good at suspiciously analyzing magical theory from a source that hasn't been vetted and would be analyzing Dhar-based magical theory while possessing the trait Dhar Insight. The more subtle the trap you incorporate the more minor its effect and the less it harms the value of the knowledge, the bigger the trap the more you sabotage the knowledge's value but the much more likely it is that the sabotage is detected, understood, and corrected. A magical equivalent of a code audit should get rid of most of the traps, especially the major ones.

If we want to go full paranoid we could try reverse engineering it down to its first principles and rebuilding the theory from there, then compare the original and the reverse engineered and reconstructed copy. If the original outperforms the copy in some respect that means the reconstructed copy is flawed, if they're equal in some respect that means that bit probably isn't a trap, if the copy outperforms the original in some respect that means that that bit of the original was a trap or we improved upon it with our nonsensical Umgi ways.

The big problem is that a lot of the theoretical knowledge they'd be offering would be Dhar-based, meaning only those with special dispensation are allowed to study them and for good reason, Mathilde will probably be able to spot any major traps and might be able to do the magical code review by herself but the reverse engineering bit would likely take multiple Wizards working together and that level of active indepth study of Dhar might exceed the limits of the permissions given by the dispensation. Plus since it would primarily if not entirely be Dhar-based we wouldn't be able to use most or all of the knowledge to cast spells, we'd be limited to learning how to counter Dhar better which is a good and valuable tool in the Colleges arsenal but it is also likely one that would be given out very sparingly since the knowledge of how to counter Dhar can also be turned into the knowledge of how to wield Dhar. Ultimately the ones who would benefit from such a deal would be Mathilde and a very limited number of LMs and very trusted Magisters who specialize in fighting Dhar-based threats.

Which I still think is worth it mind you, I want Mathilde to have as much Dhar related knowledge she can get her hands on without being suspicious so that when the next Everchosen hits we're the best Dhar counterspeller there is and if things go badly and we're forced to use the "Break Glass in case of Apocalypse" button that is the Second Secret or God forbid, the other Dhar based techniques we have like Necromancy, Thaumaturgy, and whatever spells we learn from the Druchii, to drive back the Thirteenth Everchosen and win the second Great War Against Chaos even if it means we have to spend the rest of our lives on the run lest the Magisters Vigilant catch us and pacify us.

So... we are finishing the book on Aethyric Vitae this turn... are we turning in our Orbs of Sorcery alongside the book, or what's the plan?
The books are finishing so unless it turns out terribly like Thaumomycology and needs to be rewritten we'll present them this turn, since the entire point of not revealing the Orbs immediately was to release them alongside the book logically we'll be releasing them along side the book. The only question is whether we'll have to dedicate a social action to see the full consequences of waves we make as we shadowdrop both the book ,the Orbs, and the existence of AV itself, and if the book turns out bad, whether to release it as is, delay the book but release the Orbs, or delay the Orbs again until the rewritten book is finished. There's no plan because Boney hasn't asked for one he'll likely be handling the details of the reveal and only ask for input if it's something the thread might have a debate about.
 
Speaking of Dhar and its uses one wonders how the Empire would take Lord Seilph using the Second Secret, or rather 'the dark spells of unmaking' openly? I mean imagine this, we have a necromantic army marching over Sylvania and Stirland again, the elector count sends out a message for aid, the elves send one elf and his guard, he walks up to the army, points at it and the army stops being there. This is pretty blatetenly the thing the Grand Theogonist did, it is also not a human and is in fact a several thousand year old elf from a society that has no history raising the dead in those thousands of years while also being an ally saving your neck (literally because it's vampires :V ).

Take this one step further, the dwarfs fresh off success in the Silver Road War start looking thoughtfully in the direction of the Silver Pentacle. How radical would a dwarf king have to be to ask Elf Lord Zombiebane over there for help so Nefferata doesn't have most of her army to contest the walls with?
 
The best way to not get in too deep is to just not get into the pool, and Druuchi are definitely pool i do not want to tip our toe in.

Dealing with druuchi has too many potential risks, and too little benefits, for me to want to get into it.
At lower end, by trading for information of druuchi raiders to hit, the druuchi we are dealing with gain abilit to predict, even to some extent control, empire's fleet activities, and while it is not exactly that big of a security risk, for the same reasons why getting info on the raiders is not a major benefit, it is one that coul be used for good effect against the empire's interests.
 
The big problem is that a lot of the theoretical knowledge they'd be offering would be Dhar-based,
I feel like we can ask them to not send Dhar based knowledge. IT is after all going to be a negotiation.

Honestly I expect what they send to be very niche stuff since we are looking to send niche stuff in turn.
 
Personally I'd have loved to see more of the dark elves since we were already in a deep dive of Elven culture.
They look interesting, sort of like a cross between viking raiders and feudal Japan , but the thread kept dooming about them like they were machiavellian super villains and they couldn't ever win a vote for more screen time.
 
So I've been reading Barony of the Damned recently (the 2E book about Mousillon city and duchy alike) and it occurred to me that in light of what's below:

"The Waystone network in Sylvania is in better shape than you might think," Markgraf Nyklaus says, unrolling half a dozen maps showing different corners of Sylvania and weighing down the corners with an assortment of weaponry he had concealed on his person. "The Von Carsteins infamously saw humans as cattle, but morality aside, that meant they had a vested interest in keeping them alive. So they kept the network in working order near population centers, and used something called 'balefire' to create wellsprings of Dhar where and when required instead of just having a constant sky-high level of corruption. There seems to have been something of a self-balancing mechanism to it - the less forward-thinking Vampires would be less prone to caring about long-term wellbeing of the human population, but they'd also be the ones that would want all of the Necromancers under them focused on conquest and expansion, so they didn't want to dedicate Necromancers to having undead do the mining and smelting and treefelling and blacksmithing that would arm and armour their armies."

You suppose that makes sense. Despite Sylvania's reputation, the continued existence of a human population within it that is sane enough to function puts a limit on how bad the taint could be. "It seems to already be concentrated along the rivers," you observe.

...the Bretonnians might need Waystones more than we think. See it's easy to think of Mousillon as Bretonia's Sylvania, a problem yes, but one that has been contained and managed, that most of the movers and shakers of the realm do not think about. That is not the case:

The Red Pox, which is the event that depopulated the province and made it extra-cursed happened in 1813 IC, 633 years ago. Over all that time there have been no attempts by the Bretonians to retake the place and no equivalent of the Von Carstains to keep order or provide even coanditional protection to the Network within the province. Meanwhile there is a 'Cordon Sanitaire' on the borders, with neighboring Lyonesse and Bordeleaux which requires constant patrols. In spite of that smuggling into Bretonnia though Mousillon City is rampant to the point where it is the major source of income for the inhabitants of said city. the only hint that someone may be keeping down some of the monsters in that place is this short blurb:

Barony of the Damned said:
Swamp Things
With much of Mousillon consisting of snail-infested swamps, swamp-dwelling creatures exist that could well be unique to the Grismerie valley. Slow, strong, malodorous and possibly intelligent, these creatures are frequently indistinguishable from piles of swamp debris until they move. Strangely, rather than just being another danger to watch out for while out swamping, the "Grey Men" are enshrined in Mousillon
folklore as being protectors of the wild who should not be harmed and who might even offer their wisdom to dedicated and skilled Swampaires.

Interesting that it is swamps again. Twice is not enough to rule out coincidence, but still I think there is a pattern here. This is an animistic world, from the fey to the river spirits and other elementals the land is in some ways alive, sapient and does not want to be tainted. That said when the taint creeps in it quickly expands from the places of human habitation, say cities, but also fertile valleys, plains etc... leaving the wilder places less corrupted, not uncorrupted to be clear, the beastmen see to that. But the beastmen are slow in defiling the land and they do not work well with other forces that are nominally on the same side as them like cultists, not even speaking of vampires or Skaven. The greenskins are better at making allies of convenience than them.
 
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So I've been reading Barony of the Damned recently (the 2E book about Mousillon city and duchy alike) and it occurred to me that in light of what's below:



...the Bretonnians might need Waystones more than we think. See it's easy to think of Mousillon as Bretonia's Sylvania, a problem yes, but one that has been contained and managed, that most of the movers and shakers of the realm do not think about. That is not the case:

The Red Pox, which is the event that depopulated the province and made it extra-cursed happened in 1813 IC, 633 years ago. Over all that time there have been no attempts by the Bretonians to retake the place and no equivalent of the Von Carstains to keep order or provide even coanditional protection to the Network within the province. Meanwhile there is a 'Cordon Sanitaire' on the borders, with neighboring Lyonesse and Bordeleaux which requires constant patrols. In spite of that smuggling into Bretonnia though Mousillon City is rampant to the point where it is the major source of income for the inhabitants of said city. the only hint that someone may be keeping down some of the monsters in that place is this short blurb:



Interesting that it is swamps again. Twice is not enough to rule out coincidence, but still I think there is a pattern here. This is an animistic world, from the fey to the river spirits and other elementals the land is in some ways alive, sapient and does not want to be tainted. That said when the taint creeps in it quickly expands from the places of human habitation, say cities, but also fertile valleys, plains etc... leaving the wilder places less corrupted, not uncorrupted to be clear, the beastmen see to that. But the beastmen are slow in defiling the land and they do not work well with other forces that are nominally on the same side as them like cultists, not even speaking of vampires or Skaven. The greenskins are better at making allies of convenience than them.
In comparing Mousillon to Sylvania, the biggest difference is that we know why Sylvania is Like That- massive Warpstone meteor shower followed by being the center of total war between the Skaven and undead armies lead by Vanhel, left to fester for another few hundred years, then governed by vampires who didn't exactly improve things.

Mousillon doesn't really have that 'inciting incident', it's been regarded as cursed for almost as long as Bretonnia has existed.

(Also, governmental power didn't completely collapse following the Red Pox in 1813 IC- Merovech's war against the rest of Bretonnia saw him killed and the best portions of the Dukedom conquered by Lyonesse, but Dukes continued to rule in Mousillon and exert some level of control. That didn't change until Maldred kidnapped the Enchantress and attempted to subvert Bretonnian religion in 2297 IC. After he died to another outbreak of Red Pox, the king formally dissolved the Dukedom)
 
Also in the grand tradition of Morkthilde I feel compelled to share this:

Barony of the Damned said:
The Ducal Palace
The Ducal Palace is the grandest and oldest building in Mousillon. Built around a single tower evidently of original Elven architecture, even the newer parts of the palace probably date from before Landuin. During the reign of Maldred, the Palace was made extraordinarily lavish, as priceless tapestries hung from every wall, the finest gilded furnishings graced every room, and feasting and entertainment was endless. It was a
rare pleasure to be invited to the court of Mousillon, one well worth travelling through the rest of the duchy at the time. But since the terrible Affair of the False Grail, that has changed.

During the siege of the city, the Ducal Palace was locked against the hordes of plague-infected peasants outside and Maldred, Malfleur, and dozens of courtiers and servants remained inside, ignoring the plague and battle raging around them. It is said (although none can be sure) the most heinous crimes of debauchery were committed in those final days, ordered by Maldred to drown out the pleas of the dying. When the king's army finally opened the gates and sent men to the palace to arrest Maldred, they found the gilded rooms full of corpses. Everyone in the palace died in mid-revel of an unknown cause. The king ordered the palace sealed, and the dead were left where they were—as far as anyone knows, they are still there.

The Palace is sealed to this day, and none venture near it. Many say it is the seat of Mousillon's curse, though in truth the duchy was damned long before Maldred. In any case, the Palace is a place of evil and death. The Elven tower, elegant and sombre, rises to dominate the skyline of the northern half of the city. Two wings, the Lord's and the Lady's Wings, flank the tower and are in turn surrounded by a high sheer wall. A few other smaller buildings stand in the shadow of the Palace within the wall, such as stables for the Duke's horses and quarters for his servants. The whole place is decorated with elaborate carved scrollwork that echoes the Elven designs. It is far more tasteful and entrancing than the gaudy decoration of the Grail Chapel, and the Ducal Palace is easily the most beautiful building in the duchy. It is still very defensible, however, and had Maldred not been occupied with his obscene revels, it could have held out for many months even after the city itself had fallen.

The Palace's many rooms include the High Gallery where the Duke held audiences, the Lady Chapel, the Ducal Quarters at the pinnacle of the tower, and the Hall of Landuin's Grace where Maldred held his famous banquets. They are all presumably dressed in the same finery as they were when Maldred was duke but now suffer from damp and disrepair. The bodies are probably there, too, left where they were killed
either by plague or by some unknown hand. No one knows for sure since no one has been confirmed as having ventured into the Palace in two hundred years. Some madmen or naïve liars claim to have scaled the walls and seen inside, but in truth, everyone in the city is afflicted with a nameless dread of the Ducal Palace. Even visitors from outside Mousillon come under a pall of cold fear when they approach the Palace. The
structure seems shrouded in darkness and decay even from a distance. In spite of this, the story has spread that at nights, the feasting in the Palace begins anew and ghosts of Maldred and Malfleur hold their terrible revels, doomed to dance to the
music of the dead for all time.

Should anyone ever venture into the Palace and live, they would surely find riches beyond compare, enough to probably buy the whole of Mousillon and certainly enough to make them disgracefully rich for the rest of their days. But even those who have ventured through the worst of the Lost Town to the gates of the Palace walls have faltered, halted by the dread that suffuses the place. All who went so far have either returned quickly or, some say darkly, been trapped in Maldred's court, compelled to dance with the dead forever.

Unlike the Fire Spire supposedly no one has been in there since Maldred, Malfleur died (?). There could be a lot of treasure in there even by our standards, Gold, BOOK, magical items of strange and dubious origins. Hell speaking of M&M there might be vampires to stake and skulls to collect for our entirely wholesome collection ( :grin: ). When Maldred killed the king of Bretonia it is said he drank his blood. Now maybe he was insane, maybe later stories embellished that detail from other tales prevalent in the culture, point is there might be a lot for the lootin' someone with a strong will, a belt that wards off passive corruption and a skill in stealth.

Though one does have to wonder what earthly reason would the king met with that creepy scene have had to not burn the place to the ground at least if he wasn't going to clear it by hand or take the city? Did he just like leaving adventuring locations for Questing Knights?
 
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Ah right, that takes it down to only the base chance of vampires. The False Grail was said to make those who drank from it revel in blood after all and Malfleur sure sounds like a Lahmian in her modus operandi.
I think she's more of a Chaos Sorceress, personally.

Overall fairly mysterious backstory, of course.

(Doesn't help that most of the details on the False Grail Affair are only in the 5th edition Bretonnia book)
 
I think she's more of a Chaos Sorceress, personally.

Overall fairly mysterious backstory, of course.

(Doesn't help that most of the details on the False Grail Affair are only in the 5th edition Bretonnia book)

It doesn't feel very focused for it to have been Chaos. The indulgence and feasting sounds like Slaanesh, the plague like Nurgle and the overall magical treachery and magical sleep sounds like Tzeench. When Chaos gets that bad on a provincial level the trees start developing pustules or the clouds start raining blood etc... Not to mention that any and all lower level cultitsts of the relevant God would go loud and start summoning daemons which are even more of a sign.
 
It doesn't feel very focused for it to have been Chaos. The indulgence and feasting sounds like Slaanesh, the plague like Nurgle and the overall magical treachery and magical sleep sounds like Tzeench.
That seems like an argument for Chaos Undivided Sorceress.

It'd be easy enough to tell- if her corpse really is in the Ducal Palace.
 
Personally I'd have loved to see more of the dark elves since we were already in a deep dive of Elven culture.
They look interesting, sort of like a cross between viking raiders and feudal Japan , but the thread kept dooming about them like they were machiavellian super villains and they couldn't ever win a vote for more screen time.
That is not an inaccurate description.
 
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