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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alratan said:
Wizards would still need to be going out and earning dwarf favour to have the 'currency' to exchange, it just means that other wizards would be able to use it, not just them.
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Oh absolutely, this isn't "getting stuff for free". But if dwarf favour suddenly has a exchange rate with college favour, it both becomes more in demand (increasing the likelihood of wizards hopping over to see if they can ply their expertise more profitably there) and means those with dwarf favour who would rather have college favour can trade it in.

If there were a way to promote further cooperation between the Ice Witches and the Colleges, we'd probably take it. We were certainly fast enough jumping on the fog bridge to deepen economic ties between Laurelorn and the Empire. And unlike Kislev the Runesmiths are never in five hundred years going to be the ones to initiate this strengthening of ties and exchange of expertise without being prompted. Mathilde's in a unique place to make this happen, and it's exactly what she's been trying to make happen for the past couple of years with the Waystone Project.

There's a price point where I'd say "no, not worth it", but I'd at least like to find out what they'd ask for before discarding the notion. And finding out that price is costless on our part. No AP expenditure, no deposit. We ask, they tell us. But we have to be the ones to ask.
 
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Alratan said:
From people like Mathilde, who was fully capable of earning dwarf favour from the first time she interacted with dwarves.

All this would do is somehow allow wizards who have dwarf favour to exchange it to other wizards in return for College favour.

Wizards would still need to be going out and earning dwarf favour to have the 'currency' to exchange, it just means that other wizards would be able to use it, not just them.
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???

Wizards with dwarf favor can already do that. They DID do that during the construction of the eye of gazul. Supposing for the sake of argument that the above was somehow a one-off and that letting any wizard take their dwarf favor and trade it with another wizard is all it would do, then we as players could just shrug our shoulders and back out of it for a full refund - meaning you've not made an argument against taking the action. There's nothing we lose by taking it and seeing what comes of it.

Meanwhile, Mathilde was able to earn that initial favor because Belegar put out a call for assistance. But her access since has been far more privileged - nobody but the wizards in K8P knew about Kragg's difficulties with Bok, and neither he nor any other runesmith is in the habit of asking for help from the colleges, or even letting them know about their problems. That is what we can change - we're trying to make it easier and more regular for wizards and runesmiths to exchange services.

Otherwise known as favor trading.
 
Mopman43 said:
Krell is, not Kemmler.

Definitely not anything in the End Times, he opposed Nagash there (died to Arkhan the Black)

If Kemmler is a puppet of anything it's Chaos.
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Okay, I've found the source of my confusion, and surprise surprise it's the wiki.

Yet Kemmler has never realised that both he and Krell are simply pawns in the schemes of the Great Necromancer and ancient Nehekharan Liche Nagash, the creator of the necromantic arts and the one true Lord of Undeath on the world of Mallus.
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There's no source or any further information about this that I can find.
 
[X][LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Liminal Pathways, Nehekharan Pantheon, The Mortuary Cult, Nehekharan Incantations
[X] [COLLEGE] Translations of Extensive/Obscure Asur Medicine and Anatomy texts into Reikspiel, to be donated to the Temple of Shallya (Pay with 6 College Favor)
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Okay, I've found the source of my confusion, and surprise surprise it's the wiki.



There's no source or any further information about this that I can find.
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There's a bit in his army book entries that Krmmler doesn't realize Krell is Nagash's, so he might count as an unwitting pawn? He doesn't really do anything in particular to serve him, though.
 
Alratan said:
Each favour earned from writing a paper adds to the total stock of favours in existence.
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I remember Boney saying something about how We only get this impression because we are Grey. Which makes sense to me as Greys try to stay away from money they insteal lean on favors more but I would not suprised that there is bunch of Gold Wizards that exchange their favors for cold hard dosh. I think Johan was one of those wizards even -to fund his first gilding- so clearly there is pressure valves in the system. It is just that Greys are not doing it often.

I imagine Bursar is likely the one that oversees favor economy and having some inflation is actually good* for pushing magisters to spend their favors rather than sit on them. *Same reason why low inflation is better for economy than negative one really.
 
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[X] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Liminal Pathways, Nehekharan Pantheon, The Mortuary Cult, Nehekharan Incantations
[X] [COLLEGE] An Ulgu powerstone (5 CF)
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase
 
Bucolic said:
I don't think opening Runesmiths to the whole of the Colleges is a good idea, no matter how potentially useful it is.

Let me give a summary: Alric
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There are idiots and bad actors in any organisation. To say then that the presence of those people makes any attempt at cooperation impossible is kinda defeatist. Its how you get to GWs "the world fell with Praag" take; that Order is doomed to fail because talking doesnt work.
 
Alric going out and doing mighty deeds isn't the problem, it's Alric using those mighty deeds to try and prop up his Patriarchy (heh) in the Light College that's the problem. Alric going and spending time helping Dwarves would be great, because they aren't particularly well suited to boosting his internal College cred.
 
I was just looking through our new additions and it occurred to me to wonder which applicable magic we know the most about? So not a phenomenon, not dark magic that no one we know can use (*cough*ignore Sarvoy*cough*). Turns out it's Waystones and Henges at 15 which one would expect and then it's potions of all things at 10, even though we do not have all the Imperial books, we could push it to 11. If Panoramia wants to make her next big project potion related she has a hell of a foundation.
 
DragonParadox said:
I was just looking through our new additions and it occurred to me to wonder which applicable magic we know the most about? So not a phenomenon, not dark magic that no one we know can use (*cough*ignore Sarvoy*cough*). Turns out it's Waystones and Henges at 15 which one would expect and then it's potions of all things at 10, even though we do not have all the Imperial books, we could push it to 11. If Panoramia wants to make her next big project potion related she has a hell of a foundation.
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Perfectly positioned for someone from the Colleges to write their thesis in potionmaking with Dwarf ales as a base.
 
Arguing in favor of the favor economy dwarf purchase - do you know what was neat, but ultimately not of much personal use to Mathilde herself? Commissioning the rooms of calamity for each of the colleges. We know they all got used, but could they use more?

Probably. But it's not something we, personally, can really afford to commission. So why not let them pay for it themselves?

[] [DWARF] Open negotiations to allow the Colleges of Magic access to the favor economy of the Runesmith Guild on an institutional level (Pay with AV)

That sort of thing is what I see this option as being about. We can buy goods and services that few other imperials can because of our connections, even if it would greatly beneficial to everyone involved. Our ask to the Runesmith guild is to come to the table to negotiate an official channel for exchanging those goods and services - ironing out what kinds of things they're okay with offering, and giving the colleges the opportunity to show what kinds of things they can provide in turn.

Or in short, it means we won't need to micromanage how runesmiths can help the colleges after that. They'll be able to sort it out between themselves from then on.

That's pretty good, if you ask me.
 
My personal problem with having dwarven runesmiths interact with the colleges at large is that currently any wizards in good standings with runesmiths got there through personal involvement, trading favours would make it possible for someone who wouldn't be liked at all by dwarfs if they knew him to get access to runic lore because "well my friend vouched for him."
Who prevents the genius but ruthless gold wizard from pilfering through runic lore bought by favors to then do something any reasonable dwarf would see as an almost personal attack?

Maybe I'm just overthinking but it just feels letting the dwarfs interact with the wizards would result in further "wizards are crazy, prone to explode and should only be trusted after extensive vetting" rather then harmony and peace for all...
 
Tobtorp said:
My personal problem with having dwarven runesmiths interact with the colleges at large is that currently any wizards in good standings with runesmiths got there through personal involvement, trading favours would make it possible for someone who wouldn't be liked at all by dwarfs if they knew him to get access to runic lore because "well my friend vouched for him."
Who prevents the genius but ruthless gold wizard from pilfering through runic lore bought by favors to then do something any reasonable dwarf would see as an almost personal attack?

Maybe I'm just overthinking but it just feels letting the dwarfs interact with the wizards would result in further "wizards are crazy, prone to explode and should only be trusted after extensive vetting" rather then harmony and peace for all...
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It's not like the action would open the floodgates. This is Mathilde starting the process. Most of it is still in the hands of Dragomas Algard and company. They are the ones who are dealt with this kind of shit since they are in leadership, something Mathilde is mercifully not.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's not like the action would open the floodgates. This is Mathilde starting the process. Most of it is still in the hands of Dragomas Algard and company. They are the ones who are dealt with this kind of shit since they are in leadership, something Mathilde is mercifully not.
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Why do you think it would go through leadership? I don't think this would be "only by college leadership vetted wizards are allowed to go contact the runesmiths."
That's just not how the colleges work.
 
Tobtorp said:
Why do you think it would go through leadership? I don't think this would be "only by college leadership vetted wizards are allowed to go contact the runesmiths."
That's just not how the colleges work.
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It's how it works for Forbidden-research permits and for Battle Magic access. I don't know if we'd want to set the leaders in front of the 'talking to dwarves' gates, but it's certainly both institutionally precedented and intuitively reasonable (recalling the evergreen tale of the fortress torn down over two pennies).
 
Tobtorp said:
Why do you think it would go through leadership? I don't think this would be "only by college leadership vetted wizards are allowed to go contact the runesmiths."
That's just not how the colleges work.
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No I mean.... whatever damn process there exists for trading favors will have to be negotiated with Dragomas, Algard etc... If they think Gold idiots are a concern they will take precautions against it. Their job in negotiations for opening the common favor market is not just to get the best rate for wizards, it is also to make sure wizards do not fuck up dwarf relations.

Hell if they think the possibility of some idiot blowing everything up is so bad as to be unsustainable they will just say 'thanks but no thanks'. Though I do not think wizards as a group are that stupid.
 
It costs nothing to try, and if it's a bad idea we can back out. And if it works, then it brings two groups who otherwise wouldn't have any contact with each other together.

My concern is that the representative sent by the colleges to discuss the matter would need to be well versed in both college culture and dwarven culture to make it work, and I can think of just one candidate for that.
 
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