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Where'd you get the idea he's not fair? Nice? No, he's not nice. But I'm not sure he's canonically doen something particularly unjust.
According to myth, Asuryan burned down Hoeth's library due to sharing knowledge with elves - either in general or some specific bit of it. It came up in-quest:

[...]The most prominent tale involves Asuryan burning a significant portion of Hoeth's library for one reason or another - usually for Hoeth's teaching of the Elves in aggregate, but sometimes for one specific piece of knowledge. Sometimes that piece is the knowledge that made the Great Vortex possible, which gives Asuryan a more direct motive in this punishment, as He is no longer as able to corporeally intervene in a world that is no longer awash in magical energies. [...]
Asuryan's actions could absolutely be seen as unjust from the Hoethian point of view, even if the knowledge He granted elvenkind was something other than how to make the Vortex.

Of course, the same paragraph argues that some of this can absolutely be seen as mythologization of Malekith burning down the Libraries of Caledor and Saphethion, but still. Unjustness and unfairness is entirely in the eye of the beholder.
 
Loved the part where Mathilde sneaked past plenty of safety measures into a well-guarded room, only to reconsider, sneak out again and knock, especially since she knocked on a door that's probably still like three privacy layers past where a polite person would have introduced herself.
Mathilde's narration barely mentioned it because she's ridiculously fearless, but Roswita did point a gun straight at her when she opened the door.
 
Elven worship is dominated by something called the 'Pantheonic Mandala', the hierarchy of Gods based on their importance to that subdivision of their society. There are layers of meaning to the exact pattern that you're only beginning to grasp the basics of, but the surface-level understanding is that there is one God at the heart of the pantheon that represents the foremost deity, seven in the inner ring that represent the most venerated Gods, and fourteen in the outer ring for the Gods not quite as respected or necessary, but still powerful enough to be considered a major God. There was a time when this division was simply that of the Cadai, the Gods of Heaven that represented the ideals that Elves must strive for, and the Cytharai, the Gods of the Underworld that represented the realities that the Elves must grapple with, but Mathlann's ascension to the inner ring despite being the fickle and uncaring God of Storm and Sea represented the Elves breaking with that supposedly fundamental truth.
Okay so the Pantheonic Mandala is the term for elven worship that's good to know I imagine that can be the topic of a religious book if Mathilde wanted to write it.

Now the Mandalas are molded to fit the societies and circumstances of the divided Elven socities. The Asur, for instance, have Asuryan at the heart of theirs, but the Druchii place Khaine in pride of place, while the Asrai place Kurnous and Isha in joint supremacy. But the Eonir, with their tamed forest and hard borders, have put Isha alone at the heart of their Mandala, and Kurnous and His wilds that the Eonir need not grapple with are demoted all the way to the outer ring. Ereth Khial, the Pale Queen who offers safe escort to Elven souls lost on their way to their proper destination and in danger of predation - not to where they actually wanted to go, but to an afterlife spent in Ereth Khial's service, but safe escort nonetheless - is placed in the outer ring by the Asur and Asrai who can count on the leylines of Ulthuan and the forest-soul of Athel Loren respectively to guide their souls to where it must go. But the Druchii, who presumably have nothing equivalent in Naggaroth to guide them and often die far from it besides, have her on the inner ring. The Eonir, who have a strong taboo against leaving Laurelorn and its oversoul dominated by the Grey Lords, have removed Ereth Khial from the mandala entirely in favour of Ulric, relegating her to a minor god.
Makes sense that religion would be heavily effected by the various countries.

(You spent an uncomfortable fifteen minutes sketching out where the lines would be drawn if things became explicitly religious, and as it currently stands, the isolationists dominate the Temples of Asuryan, Kurnous, Vaul, Drakira, Eldrazor, and Ellinill, while the loyalists control the Temples of Mathlann, Ladrielle, Lileath, Atharti, Morai-Heg, and, of course, Ulric. The Temples of Isha, Hoeth, and Hekarti would be split down the middle. It's a situation that has a lot of potential for a lot of ugliness.)
Religious conflicts are an absolute mess.

It's a very entertaining week, but throughout it all there is a palpable sense of anticipation for the climactic showdown, when Kadoh must defend his position against the chosen champion of the Isolationist bloc. The Temple of Asuryan is responsible for choosing the exact format of this event, and they've chosen to cleave very closely to the most traditional format: one where the two must demonstrate which is most able to emulate the deeds of the most favoured champion of Asuryan, who was, at least according to the Eonir, Aenarion the Defender. He was also the great-great-great grandfather of Queen Marrisith, a point that is subtly but repeatedly emphasized at various points throughout the ceremonies. According to legend he wielded a mere hunting spear the first time he took the battlefield, and from there would take up a weapon of a slain enemy and use it until his God-given strength shattered it. His later dalliance with the Sword of Khaine is not the part of his tale that this Temple of Asuryan lingers on. As such, the competitors will enter the arena carrying a spear, but the arena is ringed with every kind of melee weapon imaginable. All are made of a heavy but fragile wood that will shatter painfully on a direct hit, their edges blunt but daubed with a dye that will not only make every cut clearly visible, but will also make the bruises they leave burn even worse.
The Queen has a really impressive bloodline and is leveraging it for all that it's worth.

You eavesdrop on the dispersing crowds to get a feel on how the Eonir feel about all of this, and the general sentiment seems to be that everyone was ready for some sort of divine intervention to happen but aren't entirely surprised by its lack, and there's a number of jokes to the effect of Kadoh's family putting the Gods out of a job for lack of any need of divine aid. What you don't hear is the opinion of anyone politically opposed to Kadoh, and you take that to mean that they're feeling rather unemboldened by such a overwhelming defeat.

All in all, it is something of an anticlimax, but it's a very welcome one.
Kadoh winning is a good thing since it keeps things stable and means we still have that in.

She gives you a level look, anticipating a question you won't give her the satisfaction of asking, and you look determinedly back. Yes, she's pregnant, and she's keeping it a secret, but she's not even the first Van Hal to let you in on this secret. Last time, she was the secret you were let in on. Eventually, she huffs and moves past it. "I felt it was right to warn you that there will not be another Van Hal on the throne of Stirland." You consider that and nod, not needing further elaboration, but she evidently feels the need to give it anyway. "Father's ambition was to finally bury the Vanhel legacy for good, to free the rest of the family from the grip it has always had on us. I've come to believe that replacing Vanhaldenschlosse with Eagle Castle doesn't achieve that. What needs to be done is that Sylvania needs to be brought down to the point where it can be kept suppressed by any competent administrator, and then allow the position to pass to someone with a blank enough slate that their victories will earn them glory, rather than just paying the interest on thirteen centuries of inherited shame."
So the plan was to deal with the Stirland and redeem the Van Hel family and then let the burdens go.

You don't actually know how to respond to that. It makes you kind of glad that you have a way to completely derail the course of the conversation. "Well, in the interest of inheritance disclosures, there's a decent chance that you'll end up Emperor if Luitpold passes in the near future."

She stares at you, blinking as she recalculates. "Has something happened to the heir?"

"The same something as Wilhelmina's. He'll probably be going into the Bright Order. If Luitpold lasts long enough for Mandred to rack up some accolades he might still be able to make it work, but if the election happens while he's still an Apprentice, odds will be very against him."
This is extremely important and classifed information and Mathilde telling her about this is huge show of support.

"That... might actually change the situation," she says, drumming her fingers on the table and frowning. "Burying the family legacy is one thing, but being crowned Empress Van Hal for finally subjugating Sylvania would be a complete triumph over it." She hesitates, her eyes darting over to you as she considers whether to continue. "And a not inconsiderable personal vindication, as well," she admits.

"It might hurt your chances if a dynastic marriage isn't possible-"

"It's possible," she says. You stay silent for a moment, leaving space for elaboration that Roswita unabashedly leaves unfilled.
Can't really pick up what she's implying about her current kid since I'm bad at that kind of thing, but she seems interested in going to bat for the Empress position.

She gives you a long look, that you mistake for thinking until she speaks. "What do you get out of telling me this?"

"Get?" You frown as you consider that. "Not having to spend time getting to know some other person if they become Emperor, I suppose. But really, what it comes down to is that I had information that you would be better off knowing than not knowing, and it cost me nothing to give it to you, so I gave it to you." Because it's what your father would have wanted me to do, you don't say, but she hears it nevertheless.
Mathilde wants to look after her due to her loyalty to her dad.

She looks at you for a long time, and you look back. There is a possible version of this conversation where you actually speak up here, and you have a very long and awkward conversation about what her father actually did mean to you, and what he might have meant to you if things had not gone so terribly wrong at Drakenhof, and, let's be honest here, if he also had a hitherto unsuggested predilection for insecure young Wizards who had only just begun to come into their own. But not only would that be an agonizingly awkward conversation to have, it would also be one that would expose the person you used to be. You quite like being the highly-skilled Wizard with the ear of many of the continent's movers and shakers, the shadowy figure only glimpsed out of the corner of one's eye as she watches events unfold with a knowing smile. You know that whatever it is that Roswita is imagining, it stars a slightly younger version of that take on yourself, rather than the fumbling, coltish young woman that Abelhelm was much more of a mentor to than anything else.

Part of you still flinches at the memory of Roswita so summarily banishing you from what had become your home, and that part of you quite likes that part of Roswita is still intimidated by what she imagines you to be and to have been. You don't want to give Roswita the ability to treat the younger version of yourself with the same contempt that part of you does.

So you remain silent, and let Roswita imagine whatever it is she imagines.

"Thank you," she finally says to you, and you just smile and nod.
Yeah tehre's a lot of history between the two of them and Sylvania and Abelhelm left a huge mark upon Mathilde.

Mathilde setting up the table to win no matter what. If Mandred squeezes in somehow all well and good, if not shape the field so the other likely candidate also owes you for the chance.
They're going to be fond of her no matter who ends up leading the Empire so it's a win win win for her.

Either of Mandred or Roswitta ending up as Emperor is one of the few things that would make me consider having Mathilde take a stab at becoming Supreme Matriarch. It would be a fun way to go full circle with the story, and once again be one advisor among many - just with much higher stakes this time.

If we pull off the Waystone project, combine that with the Orbs of Sorcery and Aetheric Vitae, brush up on our dueling without Branulhune, and spend some time on college politics to dissuade some of the potential challengers... Mathilde's got a shot I think.
Yeah it's one of the few ways I could think about possibly going to bat for that position. Still not something I'd like but something that would get me to vote for it.

And besides Roswita, the other candidate is Boris, who is the Number One Laurelorn fan in the Empire and has several reasons to like Mathilde as well. And the other other candidate is the EC of Ostermark, who is going to get in the near future a visit from Mathilde about how she can fix his Mordheim problem, so potentially an enthusiastic supporter of the Waystone Project.

It's at times like these that I truly realize how influential Mathilde is becoming / already is.
Mathilde is a mover and shaker and continues to be more of one as time goes on.
 
For that reason, instead of going to the time and effort of disassembling whatever trickery is afoot, you simply glare at the person in front of you - well, not so much 'glare' as no longer masking the expression of annoyance that all this has given you - and wait until they either make the problem go away or escalate the matter to whoever it is that gives them orders.
On another note, given how much time Mathilde has spent among dwarfs, I have no doubt that her looks of annoyance are suitably withering with Dissaproval.
 
Does anyone wanna go pacify Eastern Stirland with the Protector before fucking off to Nagarythe, by any chance? Make the Dammerlichtreiter ride again and strike fear in the hearts of any hidden gribblies?
I mean is there anything meaningful to even pacify at this point? No doubt there are some ghosties and ghoulies, but I don't think any of them are worth the Dammerlichtreiter coming out to play.
While there aren't really any hard targets left in Eastern Stirland there are undoubtedly vampires and necromancers hiding out in all sorts of places just waiting for someone to raise a banner. Unfortunately Mathilde isn't much of a hunter, her enemies were usually known and secure in their fortifications.

Also I have finally found a reason to care about visiting Ulthuan:
an actual Phoenix swoops in to alight on an enormous brazier, nestling into it and setting the oil within it aflame. As it chirps and settles into place, its aura washes over the crowd, warming the air and spreading through its audience a feeling of... something, presumably. Its fiery aura circles around you, repelled by the Ulgu of your soul, and those standing nearest to you in the crowd give you a dirty look. You ignore them as you scrutinize the bird; Phoenixes of all sorts are an extremely rare sight outside of Ulthuan,
There exists a tiny possibility that we could get a Phoenix companion for Mandred.
 
Well, I'm not exactly expecting Luitpold to drop dead IMMEDIATELY. Best health care in the Empire, him.
Actually no. In theory with magic and divine blessings someone could keep going indefinitely. However there is a fairly powerful organization dedicated to making sure nobles don't make use of them leaving their heirs hanging.
 
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But, interestingly, not Nethu, Keeper of the Last Door and son of Ereth Khial. What little you know of his role suggests that it begins and ends with guarding His mother's domain, but that the Eonir demoted Ereth Khial instead of Nethu suggests that there's more to Him. Are there more powers and domains within the deeper secrets of His cult, or are those that claim that Nethu's father is Asuryan correct, and it is His father's influence that has kept his place within the Eonir mandala secure?)
What a fascinating question we could answer using a whole-ass superlibrary. Good thing we negotiated for one!
According to legend he wielded a mere hunting spear the first time he took the battlefield, and from there would take up a weapon of a slain enemy and use it until his God-given strength shattered it.
Breath of The Weber?

Nah, mathilde eats mints, probably. Boney of The Wild then, skeletons running free on the prairie.
 
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(Outside of the End Times)
To quote the redoubtable Imrix; End Times Delenda Est.

Why did he burn Hoeths library again?
According to myth, Asuryan burned down Hoeth's library due to sharing knowledge with elves - either in general or some specific bit of it. It came up in-quest:


Asuryan's actions could absolutely be seen as unjust from the Hoethian point of view, even if the knowledge He granted elvenkind was something other than how to make the Vortex.

Of course, the same paragraph argues that some of this can absolutely be seen as mythologization of Malekith burning down the Libraries of Caledor and Saphethion, but still. Unjustness and unfairness is entirely in the eye of the beholder.
He burned down Hoeth's library because Hoeth shared knowledge he wasn't supposed to. You can argue that that knowledge sharing was a good thing and that it should earn Heoth clemency, but Asuryan is the Emperor of Heaven, and makes the laws. Arguably, punishing someone for breaking the law, even if for a good cause represents justice better than not doing so just because you like the results.
 
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It occurs to me that, by the some of the Elves' jokes of Kadoh "putting the gods out of a job" it's entirely possible there wasn't an intervention because the Gods given an explicit invitation to intervene saw what was going down and decided they liked the outcome.

Of course, it's hardly the only explanation --- the Gods just not seeing either outcome as detrimental/beneficial enough to bother with is also on the table for instance --- but it's a notable one.

Moving back a bit
Sooo, we might be a little late, and that's OOC knowledge, but... How likely are we to get the Lizardmen interested in our little project ?
I feel like getting the Lizardmen on board with the project is possible, since it's existence is in their interests, but, I would expect securing cooperation to require a significant investment from Mathilde.

How much... dunno. I'd start any guess at 6 turns worth of multiple actions of effort each, and assume the error bars on that could easily be double or half.
 
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He burned down Hoeth's library because Hoeth shared knowledge he wasn't supposed to. You can argue that that knowledge sharing was a good thing and that it should earn Heoth clemency, but Asuryan is the Emperor of Heaven, and makes the laws. Arguably, punishing someone for breaking the law, even if for a good cause represents justice better than not doing so just because you like the results.
If you make an argument that government is always fair i will fucking kick you. You know what, get me that sweet three month ban because this is a worthy cause. On a rate of 0/10 bullshit meter this is 20 and if i had to dig a sewer dump for all the bullshit you just said, mariana trench would be shallow. Utterly asinine opinion. If tyrants get to judge fairness then fairness does not exist and just for the suggestion your idea is more faulty than a skaven ratgun.
 
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Still, knowing and having good relations with 3-4 out of the 5 potential future Emperors, all of whom (except Mandred) already are Elector Counts, is the kind of thing that many nobles would kill (and worse) for. That's not even counting the ones outside the Empire, like the Tzar of Kislev, the Queen of Laurelorn or the Kings (and ruling council) of at least four Dwarf Karaks. Mathilde is genuinely one of the most well-connected people in the Old World.
I've said it before, but it's significantly less difficult to create and maintain political connections on a continental scale when you're one gyrocarriage ride away.
 
I have to say, I really love what the Roswita social said about Mathilde. That for all that she relishes playing to her persona, and how genuinely competent and capable she is, that she has a lot of scorn and complicated emotions towards her past self for not living up to the same hype she loves to wrap herself in today.
 
I have to say, I really love what the Roswita social said about Mathilde. That for all that she relishes playing to her persona, and how genuinely competent and capable she is, that she has a lot of scorn and complicated emotions towards her past self for not living up to the same hype she loves to wrap herself in today.
That might be the first time in the last ten years that Mathilde acknowledged that she wasn't always a badass know-all wizard.
 
There exists a tiny possibility that we could get a Phoenix companion for Mandred.
I feel like the odds of that are approximately 0. Phoenixes are not only rare even on Ulthuan (typically only living near and around the Shrine of Asuryan), but are only ridden by Asuryan's greatest champions, the Anointed of Asuryan.

Even if Nagarythe has some pull with the Cult of Asuryan (and I really wouldn't bet on it), I don't imagine they'd let go of any phoenixes they had.

Edit: Great Eagles and Griffons are probably on the table, though.

He burned down Hoeth's library because Hoeth shared knowledge he wasn't supposed to. You can argue that that knowledge sharing was a good thing and that it should earn Heoth clemency, but Asuryan is the Emperor of Heaven, and ames the laws. Arguably, punishing someone for breaking the law, even if for a good cause represents justice better than not doing so just because you like the results.
Looks at the generally-Ranaldian thread

I think you'll find it difficult to find many people here who agree that punishing someone for breaking the law is always justice.
 
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What, they can't just pokaball it with their soul?
Even if Phoenixes count as sufficiently magical creatures that they could be bound like Apparitions, they're kind of on a wholly different level of power compared to Apparitions. From what we saw of the Rider in Red, it's mostly on the level of "dude on a horse", whereas in the High Elves armybook a Flamespyre Phoenix goes into melee with a Bloodthirster and wins (albeit with the good old "Resurrect, then stab them in the back" tactic, but still).
 
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That might be the first time in the last ten years that Mathilde acknowledged that she wasn't always a badass know-all wizard.
And more than that, there's a noticeable part of her that resents her past self for not being that badass know-it-all wizard. Probably still a fair amount of blaming herself for Abelhelm's death in there too. It's a really interesting glimpse into Mathilde's hangups and insecurities.
 
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He burned down hoeths library because Hoeth shared knowledge. Once you get more specific than that, it entirely depends on the telling.
We only have one canon telling because it's an 8th edition retcon to aid in the End Times reveals.

If you make an argument that government is always fair i will fucking kick you. You know what, get me that sweet three month ban because this is a worthy cause. On a rate of 0/10 bullshit meter this is 20 and if i had to dig a sewer dump for all the bullshit you just said, mariana trench would be shallow. Utterly asinine opinion. If tyrants get to judge fairness then fairness does not exist and just for the suggestion your idea is more faulty than a skaven ratgun.
I'm not making an argument that government is always fair. I'm making the argument that this specific instance is fair because Hoeth chose to break the law (albeit it for a good cause) and the law isn't presented as being tyrannical or unjust on it's own, only unsuited to the current situation. My read of Asuryan is Lawful over Good. That's not a desirable characteristic, but it is fair.

Fair in the meaning, not the connotation. Even handed. Treats everything equally. That can result in some very bad things, as it does in IRL, but you're very obviosuly thinking of fair as inherently good. Completely even treatment for everyone is not an inherently good qaulity because not everyone starts from the same point.

Looks at the generally-Ranaldian thread

I think you'll find it difficult to find many people here who agree that punishing someone for breaking the law is always justice.
I mean, it is always fair. Justice is perhaps too far, as the readings tend to be more about what is moral than anythign else (the classic example of someone stealing. to survive vs someone stealing to get rich. Fair is to treat them both the same. Just is to be better towards the one who steals to live).
 
I'm not making an argument that government is always fair. I'm making the argument that this specific instance is fair because Hoeth chose to break the law (albeit it for a good cause) and the law isn't presented as being tyrannical or unjust on it's own, only unsuited to the current situation. My read of Asuryan is Lawful over Good. That's not a desirable characteristic, but it is fair.
If the law says you die and you don´t follow it, then you are good and the law is fucking dumb and Asuryan being a little mad bitch about it changes nothing about it being very fair.

His law is way of a tyrant because it demanded death of the entire world to satisfy his bloodlust that would get him lost too to boot. There was nothing fair in the equation there.
 
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(Outside of the End Times)

View: https://youtu.be/XzLeQs6jZEM?si=3d_-X6h_1a3y3bbn
While there aren't really any hard targets left in Eastern Stirland there are undoubtedly vampires and necromancers hiding out in all sorts of places just waiting for someone to raise a banner. Unfortunately Mathilde isn't much of a hunter, her enemies were usually known and secure in their fortifications.

Also I have finally found a reason to care about visiting Ulthuan:
There exists a tiny possibility that we could get a Phoenix companion for Mandred.
Well, if we are talking extremly unlikely but technically possible encounters on Ulthuan, I would prefer befriending a Dragon Mage, and learn something which might help Mandred befriend the Imperial Dragon
 
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Considering how much is riding on it now I have to wonder if Boney has a planed story beat for Luitpold to die or if he is regularly rolling health rolls in the background.
 
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