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As such, I'm gonna go with fuck that, vote for Mandred to go to the College that notably actually fits him, and advise him to hire a Gold Wizard to be an advisor when he takes his position. This can and should go on someone else, Mandred should go to the College that suits him best as a person, and that college is the Bright College.
this is a strange statement.

because there is exactly one magic still in the running that actually fits him, and it is chamon. infact, his affinity to elemental chamon is second best as stated by a lord magister.
ontop of this, his thought patterns already favour chamon.

and his interests in being a warrior are also favoured by chamon because it is the only wind that armour, a vital part of elector count regalia, doesn't interfere with. he doesn't just want to be someone on the battlefield. he wants to be a knight. and uh, that tends have a certain look.
 
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What a treat to wake up to, especially given that I've had Gehenna on the mind for unrelated reasons involving women in alchemy.

I sadly will not be able to be around for most of today, due to running two LARPs at a small convention, so I'm out from the discussion. Instead, I will make a suggestion:
Generally it would be entirely reasonable to use this to extract a promise regarding Mandred's education.
I think that rather than just argue the merits of one college of another directly, I think it would be very useful for people to figure out how they want Mandred's education to be tilted for each of the options. The Bright lobby has a great one at the moment. The Gold and Jade lobbies would be well-served in coming up with something similarly impactful without being a huge lift.
His nature is for Chamon. The brights don't care about his wind affinity.
That's not what Gehenna said. She said he's suited for Elemental Chamon. He's not got a pre-existing wind affinity or we wouldn't be having this conversation; he's got the temperament needed to handle elemental Chamon.
 
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Nature is personality. He will be best served going to the college he resonates best with. That the Gold college can actually let him pursue all of his goals well is simply another nail in the argument.

The Gold College can kill men and lead men and it can do it from anywhere it wants; the front line or the back.

It's the only wind that'll actually let him wear a suit of armor and wield any of the good swords, too.
 
And this can't help but make me wonder if whether Ranald/Heidi did something deliberately to stack the metaphorical deck for his genetics at his conception to make this happen so that he was significantly less capable than he could be otherwise so that he would make an easier puppet emperor for them to manipulate.

And then for it all to come crumbling down when by pure chance he turned out to be magically talented. Perhaps not even Ranald wins every hand the way he wants.
I'm more inclined to think that the Martial/Diplomacy build is a blessing/reaction to the oncoming Everchosen. By the time that happens, Mandred should hopefully be in his prime.
 
I´m not sure how much influence on his education we have once its handed to the college, especially since its entirely foreign concept to what they usually teach ngl. I don´t think this is something people should rely on as a fact rather than distant hope only supported by Boney´s "Try it and find out".
Uh, no, it's not a foreign aspect at all. They already have a spell for instilling courage and terror, the Indic tradition just focuses on it more.

And if this part of his education is the prerequisite of us supporting their bid, I do believe they will follow up on it. Even if success is not guaranteed, there's enough reason to believe this can work.
 
That's not what Gehenna said. She said he's suited for Elemental Chamon. He's not got a pre-existing wind affinity or we wouldn't be having this conversation; he's got the temperament needed to handle elemental Chamon.
That's not what I said either. I said it was his nature, not that he was already wind-ed up. I can see how it could be read that way, but wish to dispute the specific claim.
 
That's not what I said either. I said it was his nature, not that he was already wind-ed up. I can see how it could be read that way, but wish to dispute the specific claim.
His nature being suited for elemental Chamon doesn't mean it's not suited for other things, though. It's not an either-or.

EDIT: To give an example: I have an extremely fussy, pedantic, detail-oriented temperament and intellectual style. This makes me well-suited for the thing I do, which is computer programming. But I would also be well suited for things like accountancy, copyediting, and being completely insufferable on the Internet (which of course is an aspect of my gift I wholly scorn). I read Gehenna as emphasizing that Mandred was suited for a specific aspect of Chamon because he's clearly not suited for other aspects of Chamon (low Learning and Stewardship). But he can be well-suited for multiple things.
 
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Uh, no, it's not a foreign aspect at all. They already have a spell for instilling courage and terror, the Indic tradition just focuses on it more.
I don´t care what spells they have. Lore of Magic isn´t just about what spells you make, its about with what philosophy you approach it.

You are talking about being taught foreign magical paradigm from a foreign land. It does not work that way. I mean it could, otherwise Boney would say flat out no, but i don´t consider it very likely.

EDIT: Fundamentally, Indic fire traditions are not quite as far away to what Cathay are from Empire, but they still are. If you bank on Bright college being capable of teaching something not of their own that they might have couple of books on at best as curiosity, then i dunno what to tell you.
 
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His nature being suited for elemental Chamon doesn't mean it's not suited for other things, though. It's not an either-or.
being predisposed to something only says you are predisposed to it.

but we have testimony that he isn't predisposed to any of the other ones still in the running. and so his nature does not gel with them.

for the brights that is a boon. for all the others, that is a problem. not insurmountable, but still present. and still needing surmounting.

it's not a big problem. one with the will to can learn any wind if they really want to no matter how unsuited they are for it. he's not actively repulsed by any wind, it's just that of the remaining he is only especially suited towards the one.
 
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I am actually kinda surprised pushing for Indic Aqshy is a valid option. The Brights have such hangups about their wind that I would have expected more resistance to straying from their one formula for creating a functional Bright wizard.

Nature as a person; the desire to be a general, a knight, a warrior, etc, all fit the wind of passion much more closely than the wind of logic.
The way the Brights are depicted here they suck at being the wind of passion, though. Their college is not a place that appreciates what Aqshy is.
 
I think I prefer Bright for all the reasons stated as well as most of the Arcane Marks besides the flaming hair/beard ones being pretty harmless?

Also if we are worried about him being too passionate, a Gold or Grey advisor could probably calm him down?
 
being predisposed to something only says you are predisposed to it.

but we have testimony that he isn't predisposed to any of the other ones still in the running. and so his nature does not gel with them.

for the brights that is a boon. for all the others, that is a problem. not insurmountable, but still present. and still needing surmounting.
I'd note that by word of Boney he *might* be predisposed to Ulgu (or enchantment in general or just really liked his toy horse). Mathilde is not sure.


And my own five cents is tgat its very in-character for Ulgy talent to be hard to pin down, uncertain and confusing. Its Ulgu, what did you expect
 
I think I prefer Bright for all the reasons stated as well as most of the Arcane Marks besides the flaming hair/beard ones being pretty harmless?

Also if we are worried about him being too passionate, a Gold or Grey advisor could probably calm him down?
Marks are not considered particularly influential in comparison to the normal genetic issues a ruler could have, but Aqshy is explicitly the worst of the ones in the running with the capacity to spontaneously develop an astonishing temper.

Gold, meanwhile, explicitly has no marks that negatively impact the Fellowship characteristic. They're the only wind with that advantage. They look funny, but not bad.
 
His nature being suited for elemental Chamon doesn't mean it's not suited for other things, though. It's not an either-or.

EDIT: To give an example: I have an extremely fussy, pedantic, detail-oriented temperament and intellectual style. This makes me well-suited for the thing I do, which is computer programming. But I would also be well suited for things like accountancy, copyediting, and being completely insufferable on the Internet (which of course is an aspect of my gift I wholly scorn). I read Gehenna as emphasizing that Mandred was suited for a specific aspect of Chamon because he's clearly not suited for other aspects of Chamon (low Learning and Stewardship). But he can be well-suited for multiple things.
On a similar note, I have a grandparent who was pushed into being an accountant because he was very gifted at maths. He absolutely hated it, despite being very good at it.
I am actually kinda surprised pushing for Indic Aqshy is a valid option. The Brights have such hangups about their wind that I would have expected more resistance to straying from their one formula for creating a functional Bright wizard.


The way the Brights are depicted here they suck at being the wind of passion, though. Their college is not a place that appreciates what Aqshy is.
That would be why I originally specified Ind-influenced aqshy (something we can explicitly make a condition of our support), yeah.
 
I do wanna note that any argument over the quality of his armor probably isn't really worth debating. Dude's the son of the Emperor, no matter what kind of robes he gets, they're probably going to at minimum match any kind of masterwork plate that isn't actively magical, and at best blow them out of the water. Will he be tougher if he gets Chamon? Yes. Will fire-slinging and lightsaber-summoning also be a massive boon in combat survival? Also yes.

Also, wrt the Indic tradition, it's worthwhile to note the College's entire paradigm lives and dies on individual adaptability. All you need is a handful of magisters who grok the Indic tradition to start translating it into College spells. Like, we're not Ulthuan here, we're the coked up monkies hammering together spells through raw spiritual alignment and intuition. It ain't that complex.
I am actually kinda surprised pushing for Indic Aqshy is a valid option. The Brights have such hangups about their wind that I would have expected more resistance to straying from their one formula for creating a functional Bright wizard.


The way the Brights are depicted here they suck at being the wind of passion, though. Their college is not a place that appreciates what Aqshy is.
They're not that bad. They have a focus on restraint and self control, but they're still an entire college of dedicated warmages, they know what they do best and they're not afraid to use it. All that restraint and control goes into escalating their magic further.
 
The way the Brights are depicted here they suck at being the wind of passion, though. Their college is not a place that appreciates what Aqshy is.
yeah, that is something that hasn't been brought up. odd.

aqshy is the wind of passion, but the bright order is built around shackling that passion. constraining it in such a way so it doesn't burn down the world. they have a few hangups institutionally about the whole 'wind of passion as opposed to wind of fire', thing.

ensuring that the indic paradigm is learned and taught might ensure that doesn't affect the boy. but it also might fail.
 
I really want to help Mandred become the best ranaldian ruler possible so it's Grey for me. And let's be honest, the teachings of the Grey College and Mathilde in general are going to be valuable to a yound Mandred.

As for the argument that having both Eike and Mandred go grey is narratively boring, there is another side to that. Namely, that if we don't choose grey, Mandred probably won't be very proeminent in the quest at all. After all, characters with a strong connection to the MC are the ones that get more developpement in a quest.

So if you want more Mandred, consider voting the option that keeps him close to Mathilde. Else, I wouldn't expect much more than a snippet once in a while.
 
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I really want to help Mandred pecome the best ranaldian ruler possible so it's Grey for me. And let's be honest, the teachings of the Grey College and Mathilde in general are going to be valuable to a yound Mandred.
I understand you don't really care about him being a normal ruler, but it really has to be emphasized his parents (and Mathilde if she puts actions in because c'mon she's a Lady Magister with a good rep and a personal connection to Mandred, the other colleges wouldn't stop Mathilde from being involved with him) are absolutely going to put their all into keeping his skills at managing intrigue up to snuff. Yes, the teachings of the Grey will be valuable to Mandred. So will the teachings of the Bright, because they're the proper warmage college.
 
I don´t care what spells they have. Lore of Magic isn´t just about what spells you make, its about with what philosophy you approach it.
Uh, what? Are you arguing that the Bright College has... spells completely disconnected from their paradigm? What is the paradigm that allows for emotional manipulation, but does not allow for emotional manipulation, Ind edition?

Not to mention that there is not a single paradigm shared by all Bright wizards, but individual approaches for every one of them:
It is the fundamental problem of magical academia - how do you explain something when everyone experiences that thing differently? The Elves of Ulthuan use poetry, a language where every word has a dozen contradictory meanings, and a lifespan measured in centuries. The Colleges find the best results from a Master and Apprentice system, so that the teacher and the student end up with similar magical senses and a solid understanding of where they differ. But the drawback of that is that it makes widely disseminating information impossible and standardization close to it. So every Wizard who puts quill to parchment ends up turning to metaphor, and every recorded Magesight observation is described through the lens of a more mundane sense. Usually sight, sometimes sound, the more repugnant magics often as smell, and for you, the Waaagh is best described as the taste of metal in your mouth and the feeling of an unpleasant vibration in your bones.

But as fundamental a problem as it is, it's also one that your audience will be familiar with wrestling with. While you do have to filter your observations through metaphor, you don't have to worry about it misleading them the way you would with laymen. So you merely couch your metaphor with a few others from your library - the discordant tones of a Light Order observer, the sensation of half-welcome heat mixed with entirely unwelcome humidity of a Bright Order Battle Wizard, the staccato pulsations of a Runesmith. Those that have felt it for themselves should be able to translate to their own senses, and those that haven't will have to figure it out when they first do. You regret that your Magesight had apparently decided that Waaagh is a flavour, as if it was a sight you could replicate it with your MAPP.

If you bank on Bright college being capable of teaching something not of their own that they might have couple of books on at best as curiosity, then i dunno what to tell you.
They have three to five years of teaching Mandred the minimal survival basics and simplest spells inside the College before he is released and assigned an individual master. Do you seriously thing that no one, not a single Bright wizard in the entire College, will make significant progress in learning from the Indic paradigm in that time? No one is suitable for manipulating emotions despite having learned a spell to do just that already, no one is even available to tutor the young prince if his master wasn't flexible enough? No classes, no adapted spellbooks, no nothing.

I don't think I'm the one who has unrealistic expectations there.
 
Aethyric armor is already a spell that every wind has, that scales with skill (Mathilde´s is iirc as good as a plate). I am also pretty sure that even gold mages can´t wear Armour in DL thought feel free to prove me wrong.

He would have to get the set made by Von Tarnus, which i assume he has the right to.

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Uh, what? Are you arguing that the Bright College has... spells completely disconnected from their paradigm? What is the paradigm that allows for emotional manipulation, but does not allow for emotional manipulation, Ind edition?
Bright College has the spells that Teclis taught them, irrespective of what philosophy the various magical dilletantes that flocked to him previously espoused.
They have three to five years of teaching Mandred the minimal survival basics and simplest spells inside the College before he is released and assigned an individual master. Do you seriously thing that no one, not a single Bright wizard in the entire College, will make significant progress in learning from the Indic paradigm in that time? No one is suitable for manipulating emotions despite having learned a spell to do just that already, no one is even available to tutor the young prince if his master wasn't flexible enough? No classes, no adapted spellbooks, no nothing.
I don´t think that you can upend your entire worldview that you depend (and depended) on for safe casting for probably decades (no way is he getting some newbie teacher) and then teach it well, yes.
 
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Aethyric armor is already a spell that every wind has, that scales with skill (Mathilde´s is iirc as good as a plate). I am also pretty sure that even gold mages can´t wear Armour in DL thought feel free to prove me wrong.

He would have to get the set made by Von Tarnus, which i assume he has the right to.
Gehenna did say this:
An Elector Count that can harden his own armour and empower his own blade is one that will go down in history."
 
I don´t care what spells they have. Lore of Magic isn´t just about what spells you make, its about with what philosophy you approach it.

You are talking about being taught foreign magical paradigm from a foreign land. It does not work that way. I mean it could, otherwise Boney would say flat out no, but i don´t consider it very likely.

EDIT: Fundamentally, Indic fire traditions are not quite as far away to what Cathay are from Empire, but they still are. If you bank on Bright college being capable of teaching something not of their own that they might have couple of books on at best as curiosity, then i dunno what to tell you.

If they have to develop things wholesale what they come up with might not be extraordinarily impressive (Though I expect they'll come up with at least a decent offering or two, it's not really a huge stretch from their areas of strength).

If they manage to trade for actual Indic spells though it's a completely different story, you don't need to have the same paradigm as the creator to cast a codified spell.

Speaking of trading... I'd kind of lost interest in the Druchii exchange option but this could actually be a pretty valuable option for that.
 
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