Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting will open in 10 hours, 15 minutes
My personal opinion is that Mathilde shouldn't decide to mess around with this schism, as the last few lines seem to imply. Clearly Boney is setting up an option for messing with the schism in the next update, but while I doubt many would vote for it, I just think it's a bad idea. Also a waste of Mathilde's time, the Ulrican schism is genuinely not our problem. We have way too many other things to do.
 
I'm kind of wondering how many Grey Wizards were low key sweating at the implications involved with Lord Magister Mathilde Weber, The Most Unsubtle Sword Ever, asking about the biggest cult powder keg she could have.
 
Last edited:
They are Ulricans. Shouldn't they solve this by a bareknuckle cage match between the Ar-Ulric and whoever the most Nordlanders accept as the leader?

I am not even sure is this needs a :V tbh.
My suspicion is that they would love to be able to settle this with a single mano-a-mano shirtless fistfight in a cage on the coldest day of winter... if only they could work out all the pesky little details of what that single fight would determine and how to keep people happy with all that.

If anybody's read Order of the Stick and remember Roy joking "... Can't you just weigh my heart on a set of scales? D:" to an angel in front of the pearly gates to haven, and the angel dryly replying "Oh, the scales are a bitch to calibrate"?

The Ulricans would probably love to settle it with a simple straightforward agreement on the field of honor, and then just honorably hold to that... except that the scales are a bitch to calibrate.

And if you do it anyway, and expect all the macho and honorable and ambitious and straightforward and tricky men to hold to that? Well the problem is that if they aren't happy with the outcome then they... aren't happy with the outcome. The feelings will continue to curdle and boil under the surface. And fights might break out because people aren't happy with what happened and would want a change to things. And... yeah.
 
I wouldn't mind getting involved if we ever need to, by, say, influencing Nordland's cult to lean on Nordland's elector to normalize the relationship with elves in exchange for said elves coming out on their side of the schism, but it would take some effort and we don't need to yet, so I am content to let the sleeping wolves lie.
 
If we get involved with Ulrican situation, our opening gambit should be to just walk up and say 'my wolf can feed himself, open doors and take himself for walks, that makes him better than yours lol'.
 
Warhammer Fantasy isn't nearly as grimdark as Warhammer 40K, but the writers for Warhammer Fantasy still have a habit of putting very long lists of small grimdark things in almost every part of the setting at weirdly high density. Tome of Salvation lists multiple horrible fanatic sects associated with every major God, and one might wonder how these all fit in the same empire if they're "sects" of any notable size, rather than "five assholes with a banner".
Some speculative numbers pulled out of my ass, for a crude sense of scale:

The Empire has about 20M people.
90% of them will praise Sigmar on Sigmartag, beseech Rhya for good harvests, see their relatives interred in a Garden of Morr, pray to Ranald for luck when doing something risky, pray to Shallya for healing after the risky thing resulted in an injury, and more or less stop there. This leaves 10% (2M) with more than trivial devotion to some particular Cult.
90% of those will go on a one-off pilgrimage, make larger donations than usual, and/or find mundane work in a Cult which still needs lots of mundane work done like making clothes and building temples. This leaves 1% (200K) who might become priests or join a Knightly Order or Sect or the like for the long term.
90% of those will join a respectable mainstream order. This leaves 0.1% (20K) to be fanatics.
90% of those will be in the "eh, kinda weird but definitely pious" group one respectfully appreciates from a distance, like the fanatic Mannannites who swear to live their life on boats and never set foot on dry land. This leaves 0.01% (2K) to be grimdark fanatics.
The Empire is divided between about 10 major gods, so this leaves 0.001% (200 people) to join grimdark fanatic Manannite sects in particular, split among the boat-burning Manannites, the monotheist Manannites, the Great Flood Manannites, and so on.

Less than 100 people in each grimdark fanatic sect, and 2000 of them across the Empire in total, sounds vaguely plausible for something the Empire can treat as a painful footnote, not a crisis demanding attention.
 
Last edited:
So, if I read this right
The most wtf part of the struggle for me is that elves were admitted into the Cult by Ar-Ulric, whose official stance requires him to withhold priesthood from women and those not descended from Teutogenes.

Like, politics, obviously, but shouldn't it make his position shaky as fuck from his opponents calling him a hypocrite and his own faction foaming at the mouth for the betrayal of their strictures and "principles"?
 
Some speculative numbers pulled out of my ass, for a crude sense of scale:

The Empire has about 20M people.
90% of them will praise Sigmar on Sigmartag, beseech Rhya for good harvests, see their relatives interred in a Garden of Morr, pray to Ranald for luck when doing something risky, and more or less stop there. This leaves 10% (2M) with more than trivial devotion to some particular Cult.
90% of those will go on a one-off pilgrimage, make larger donations than usual, and/or find mundane work in a Cult which still needs lots of mundane work done like making clothes and building temples. This leaves 1% (200K) who might become priests or join a Knightly Order or Sect or the like for the long term.
90% of those will join a respectable mainstream order. This leaves 0.1% (20K) to be fanatics.
90% of those will be in the "eh, kinda weird but definitely pious" group one respectfully appreciates from a distance, like the fanatic Mannannites who swear to live their life on boats and never set foot on dry land. This leaves 0.01% (2K) to be grimdark fanatics.
The Empire is divided between about 10 major gods, so this leaves 0.001% (200 people) to join grimdark fanatic Manannite sects in particular, split among the boat-burning Manannites, the monotheist Manannites, the Great Flood Manannites, and so on.

Less than 100 people in each grimdark fanatic sect, and 2000 of them across the Empire in total, sounds vaguely plausible for something the Empire can treat as a painful footnote, not a crisis demanding attention.
You have much more faith in human nature than I do.
 
You have much more faith in human nature than I do.
It's less 'faith in human nature' and more 'numbers game'. If there are seriously a significant religious force of these crazed maniacs, with appropriately significant power over the mainstream cults, then the Empire functioning as well as it does, and it already doesn't function great, is illogical.
 
They are Ulricans. Shouldn't they solve this by a bareknuckle cage match between the Ar-Ulric and whoever the most Nordlanders accept as the leader?

I am not even sure is this needs a :V tbh.
My suspicion is that they would love to be able to settle this with a single mano-a-mano shirtless fistfight in a cage on the coldest day of winter... if only they could work out all the pesky little details of what that single fight would determine and how to keep people happy with all that.

If anybody's read Order of the Stick and remember Roy joking "... Can't you just weigh my heart on a set of scales? D:" to an angel in front of the pearly gates to haven, and the angel dryly replying "Oh, the scales are a bitch to calibrate"?

The Ulricans would probably love to settle it with a simple straightforward agreement on the field of honor, and then just honorably hold to that... except that the scales are a bitch to calibrate.

And if you do it anyway, and expect all the macho and honorable and ambitious and straightforward and tricky men to hold to that? Well the problem is that if they aren't happy with the outcome then they... aren't happy with the outcome. The feelings will continue to curdle and boil under the surface. And fights might break out because people aren't happy with what happened and would want a change to things. And... yeah.
The thing is that according to Tome of Salvation at least, one of the Ulrican strictures is "Obey your betters" and they are expected to back down in front of a recognized superior. Resolving matters with a fist-fight is something that happens when two Ulricans of equal rank disagree on something.

Hence the Ar-Ulric cannot just agree to resolve the matter with a cage match because that would undermine his authority and implicitly acknowledge that he's not the head of the entire Cult of Ulric and can't get his nominal subordinates to follow his orders.
 
I have a SOLUTION. Hubert needs to form his own splinter sect that preaches that Ulricans have actually been worshipping Azyr all along, and that he will lightning-fisticuffs anyone who disagrees.

Surely this will solve everything.
Ironically, it's possibly canon in 4e that they've been worshipping Ghur all along, since the Eternal Flame is the Wellspring of Ghur and Ghur has frost properties.
 
Clearly Boney is setting up an option for messing with the schism in the next update

It's also a character thing where Mathilde is increasingly aware of the moving pieces at the highest levels of politics and her growing ability to meddle with or break them.

So, if I read this right
The most wtf part of the struggle for me is that elves were admitted into the Cult by Ar-Ulric, whose official stance requires him to withhold priesthood from women and those not descended from Teutogenes.

Like, politics, obviously, but shouldn't it make his position shaky as fuck from his opponents calling him a hypocrite and his own faction foaming at the mouth for the betrayal of their strictures and "principles"?

The alternative was allowing the Bringer of Tod to claim full credit for normalizing relationships with Laurelorn. The Graf and the Ar-Ulric stand together for external matters, but internally they're rivals for power and influence.
 
Last edited:
Instead you send a letter to the offices of the Provost and the Librarian of the Grey Order and ask for a surface-level briefing of the matter, and after it is prepared you set aside an afternoon the next time you're passing by Altdorf to go through the materials they've accumulated on the topic, from historical background of the dispute to the events currently unfolding within it. Nothing in it especially secret or sensitive, but you smile at the sheer breadth of the information the Grey Order is able to deliver on short notice.
I suspect most Grey Wizards end up putting together a general info-gathering network wherever they are just as a matter of habbit. The Grey Order itself doesn't bother, they just remind people like The Hochlander to cc them in and let the info flow.

Part of you is happy that you're able to file all of this under someone else's problem, but another, deeper part of your mind is already noting the pressure points where influence could be brought to bear to bring the different groups under one banner or the other, and tallying up the amount of influence one could wield by playing kingmaker, and the amount of strife that could be avoided if this matter was put swiftly and forcibly to rest. You allow the mental notes to be made and tuck them away neatly in a corner of your mind, just in case.
Looks like the sort of thing that Heidi's job offer would have lead to.
 
Ironically, it's possibly canon in 4e that they've been worshipping Ghur all along, since the Eternal Flame is the Wellspring of Ghur and Ghur has frost properties.
Teclis: steps into the Empire
Teclis: Ah, I see, the children are having problems again! As a Hoethian, how could I deny them the knowledge that they so obviously lack and need?
 
Typos:
led to the the subjugation of that office by Middenland's temporal ruler.
2 much the

the Talabheim branch of the Ulric has a long and complicated history
Could just be odd but technically correct phrasing, but I feel like that should be Ulricans

Gosh, I'm so glad this isn't our problem. Long as they don't really bother the Eonir and our dealings with them, we don't have to worry about it. With that said, if this does end up becoming a problem, does Mathilde have the authority to cuff people upside the head for meddling in her Emperor-sanctioned Elf business? Just to be sure
 
things are really heating up freezing in the wolf fandom
This set the stage for the Jutonians to become the Nordlanders, and also laid the foundations for its complicated relationship with their coreligionists in Middenland.
SVA: I think the "its" should be "their"? Or possibly "the."
And Ulrikadrin, you learn from Hubert, have been approached by both sides
SVA again, "have" should be "has" (or "Ulrikadrin" should be "the Ulrikadrin", since IIRC Ulrikadrin is both the name of the settlement, which is singular, and used to name its people, which would be plural).
 
The thing is that according to Tome of Salvation at least, one of the Ulrican strictures is "Obey your betters" and they are expected to back down in front of a recognized superior. Resolving matters with a fist-fight is something that happens when two Ulricans of equal rank disagree on something.

Hence the Ar-Ulric cannot just agree to resolve the matter with a cage match because that would undermine his authority and implicitly acknowledge that he's not the head of the entire Cult of Ulric and can't get his nominal subordinates to follow his orders.

There is also the fact that they are an organized religion and it would be really stupid to get into the habit of resolving disagreements by cage matches. Even the Norscans, the same ones at least, do not choose their chiefs that way.
 
The alternative was allowing the Bringer of Tod to claim full credit for normalizing relationships with Laurelorn. The Graf and the Ar-Ulric stand together for external matters, but internally they're rivals for power and influence.
Interesting, that definitely makes Laurelorn coming down on the side of the Nordlander Ulricans a better prospect if they can rely on Boris to keep relations with Middenland steady.
 
I'm kinda with Ulrikardin, sod the whole mess, stick to their stronghold and village on the border where the conflict is fighting greenskins and gribblies.

This is normal. Every cult has an incredibly extremist downright heretical faction that everyone within the faction hates.

What stupefies me is that until this moment, word from Boney has been more along the lines that these extremists (in general, not just the Ulrican sect) are mostly seen as total idiots and shunned. That we now find out that these ones appear to have a large degree of influence on the church as whole is extremely concerning... But still not really our problem.
I'm kind of seeing that the usually fringe and isolationist sects of the main cult get amplified in importance because the central power players need them to lean one way or another, even if it means catering to their problematic views.

As with secular politics, if theres a deadlock, the fringe groups become kingmakers as long as courting them doesn't go far enough to break your support base.

So the best thing for the Ulricans is to resolve this one way or another before the fringes decide it for them, but neither of the central core are willing to just give in, and a straight up sectarian war is something none of them have the stomach for.

Which mostly means the ball is essentially in Chaos' court.
 
Honestly if Mathilde did get involved it should mainly be focused around dealing with bad actors and outside forces trying to stir the pot. Like I doubt that there aren't a few Tzeentch cultists or Vampires somewhere in this mess actively trying to make things worse.
 
Voting will open in 10 hours, 15 minutes
Back
Top