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Boney, if we happened to get a bunch of Kislevite religious books at some point in the future (even just Basic-level ones), would that be sufficient to prompt a social action with Cython about the Widow and Her relationship with the land of Kislev itself?

It seems like the sort of thing that would be interesting for their territory-based divine theory.
 
It's mostly the idea of the mislead of Egrimm being under the impression he's meeting a foreign Hysh wizard (as Mathilde suggested to him) resident in VAU, and his total mindscrew in realizing "Actually It's an Ice Dragon", with opportunities for Mathilde to be smug about it and Egrimm to encounter (presumably offpage) a totally alien approach to Hysh and us witnessing the debrief. Parallels to his promotion to Lord Magister and his wry commentary thereon. I'll admit it is very self-congratulatory, but Mathilde has had very little chance to show off VAU and its total weirdness to a true peer she's close to.

I suppose context would be general following up on finally meeting the foreign Hysh wizard (as previously mentioned) and differing perspectives on Hysh, with some shadings of the quest for objective truth, the nature of gods, Volans and secularism, Hysh and revelation vs Ulgu and ponderings, and the resulting food for thought.

None of this is really new content, it's two established characters with established philosophies exchanging them like business cards. There's a few fun paragraphs in there, but not an entire passage, and those fun paragraphs will be just as fun when there's something of substance to bring the two together.

Boney, if we happened to get a bunch of Kislevite religious books at some point in the future (even just Basic-level ones), would that be sufficient to prompt a social action with Cython about the Widow and Her relationship with the land of Kislev itself?

It seems like the sort of thing that would be interesting for their territory-based divine theory.

If Mathilde had actual hard facts to present instead of theories and holy books to wave a hand in the vague direction of, there might be enough there to work with.
 
@Boney Would a liminal realm with its entrance in Tor Lithanel count as 'in' Tor Lithanel? IE could we use Vitae to build housing within the city that bypasses all the restrictions that the Major Houses use to prevent construction ?
 
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@Boney Would a liminal really with its entrance in Tor Lithanel count as 'in' Tor Lithanel? IE could we use Vitae to build housing within the city that bypasses all the restrictions that the Major Familiers use to prevent construction ?

The ones that would be in a position to answer that question are the ones that benefit from the status quo. If you have the political will to solve the problem, it'd be cheaper and easier to expand the walls.

It takes one gallon of magic juice to make 10 cubic feet. That would be the most expensive realestate in the Old World.

I think you got cubic feet and cubic meters mixed up, it works out to about 200 cubic feet per gallon. The point is still correct though, Mathilde's stockpile couldn't even begin to make a dent in Tor Lithanel's requirements.
 
That would be a decent workaround if there isn't a way to reproduce how the original Waystones work, but Mathilde is really hoping for a one-size-fits-all solution instead of needing to customize each branch of the network to match the local Wind concentrations.
My other idea depends on the rotational speed of the orbits being constant. Do winds of magic experience centrifugal force?

If the orbital speed can be assumed to be a constant, and the eight orbit enchantments have a way of 'feeling' out whether a given proximity to the dhar core is stable(that is to say, not automatically pulling the wind mote closer or further away), and a way of pulling back a mote from getting too close to the dhar, it may be possible for the enchantments to just randomly or systematically test distances until they happen across a stable orbit distance.
Then detect that it's stable and dump the orbital system down the line.
If each enchantment has some sort of memory of its previous action, so they all start their tests with the same distance as the last mote they dumped in the system, and only vary from that point, it should be possible to use the general consistency of what sort of winds you'll see in a given environment at a given time to prevent the system from wasting massive amounts of time testing until it finds a stable orbital system.
And that'll let it maintain the same maximum rate of drain during a storm of magic that you'd see from an Elven system.

Also this idea depends perhaps a bit much on thinking of the problem as two dimensional. If the position of a given wind mote in a single orbital plane affects repulsion(and it should), there should, I think, be considerably more than 247 possible orbital positions(because, for example, it turns -Ulgu-Ghyran-ghur-chamon- and -Ulgu-ghur-chamon-ghyran- into different systems with different orbital repulsion characteristics)(It does occur to me that the wind-wheel symbol may have been invented by the elves to arbitrarily standardize which two winds should be nearest to any given wind in an orbit), but that's not even the problem with a 'feeling out' system. If a system of winds can orbit out-of-plane in the waystone network then it becomes too complex for a 'feeling out' enchantment to get orbital distances right with more than two winds in the orbits.


My own thought regarding storms of magic has brought up another application of this technology that we might be missing with only tributaries derived from Belthani designs.
Most mutation happens when Morrisleb is out, or during Storms of Magic, if we could stick a tributary under every house in a city or village, all leading back to a waystone, it might reduce the mutation rate among humans more obviously than just enhancing the Waystone network in a region.
But if our current tributary designs have inherited the limit of going north-south east-west they can't saturate peoples' living areas like that, not without building an unnecessarily dense line of the extremely expensive waystones through the city in one direction.

@Boney
Do the winds orbit at a consistent speed, consistent relative order, and single-plane? Could that kind of solution work?

I'm not clear on whether out current tributaries have inherited the north-south east-west positional line limitation that the ones we used as a pattern had. Did they? Would saturating a site of habitation with magic drains reduce mutation?
 
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@Boney, I have two social ideas. One, Laurelorn date. Panoramia's probs got stuff to say about the various flora, and the Qhaysh waterfall might be a neat capstone. Two, checking in on the Library-We's education in general, and/or talking to it about religion. One of its teachers was a priestess IIRC.
 
My other idea depends on the rotational speed of the orbits being constant. Do winds of magic experience centrifugal force?

If the orbital speed can be assumed to be a constant, and the eight orbit enchantments have a way of 'feeling' out whether a given proximity to the dhar core is stable(that is to say, not automatically pulling the wind mote closer or further away), and a way of pulling back a mote from getting too close to the dhar, it may be possible for the enchantments to just randomly or systematically test distances until they happen across a stable orbit distance.
Then detect that it's stable and dump the orbital system down the line.
If each enchantment has some sort of memory of its previous action, so they all start their tests with the same distance as the last mote they dumped in the system, and only vary from that point, it should be possible to use the general consistency of what sort of winds you'll see in a given environment at a given time to prevent the system from wasting massive amounts of time testing until it finds a stable orbital system.
And that'll let it maintain the same maximum rate of drain during a storm of magic that you'd see from an Elven system.

Enchantments aren't computers, they can't do tests or remember variables or make calculations. They do the thing they were made to do.

I don't know if Winds experience centrifugal force because I don't know enough about physics off the top of my head to know what the knock-on effects of answering yes or no would be.

Also this idea depends perhaps a bit much on thinking of the problem as two dimensional. If the position of a given wind mote in a single orbital plane affects repulsion(and it should), there should, I think, be considerably more than 247 possible orbital positions(It does occur to me that the wind-wheel symbol may have been invented by the elves to arbitrarily standardize which two winds should be nearest to any given wind in an orbit), but that's not even the problem with a 'feeling out' system. If a system of winds can orbit out-of-plane in the waystone network then it becomes too complex for a 'feeling out' enchantment to get orbital distances right with more than two winds in the orbits.

The problem treats the orbits as two dimensional because each orbital package needs to be travelling at significant speed down the leylines, which gives you only one orbital angle that works.

My own thought regarding storms of magic has brought up another application of this technology that we might be missing with only tributaries derived from Belthani designs.
Most mutation happens when Morrisleb is out, or during Storms of Magic, if we could stick a tributary under every house in a city or village, all leading back to a waystone, it might reduce the mutation rate among humans more obviously than just enhancing the Waystone network in a region.
But if our current tributary designs have inherited the limit of going north-south east-west they can't saturate peoples' living areas like that, not without building an unnecessarily dense line of the extremely expensive waystones through the city in one direction.

Enchantments aren't computers, they can't do tests or remember variables or make calculations. They do the thing they were made to do.

I don't know if Winds experience centrifugal force because I don't know enough about physics off the top of my head to know what the knock-on effects of answering yes or no would be.

Also this idea depends perhaps a bit much on thinking of the problem as two dimensional. If the position of a given wind mote in a single orbital plane affects repulsion(and it should), there should, I think, be considerably more than 247 possible orbital positions(It does occur to me that the wind-wheel symbol may have been invented by the elves to arbitrarily standardize which two winds should be nearest to any given wind in an orbit), but that's not even the problem with a 'feeling out' system. If a system of winds can orbit out-of-plane in the waystone network then it becomes too complex for a 'feeling out' enchantment to get orbital distances right with more than two winds in the orbits.

The problem treats the orbits as two dimensional because each orbital package needs to be travelling at significant speed down the leylines, which gives you only one orbital angle that works.

My own thought regarding storms of magic has brought up another application of this technology that we might be missing with only tributaries derived from Belthani designs.
Most mutation happens when Morrisleb is out, or during Storms of Magic, if we could stick a tributary under every house in a city or village, all leading back to a waystone, it might reduce the mutation rate among humans more obviously than just enhancing the Waystone network in a region.
But if our current tributary designs have inherited the limit of going north-south east-west they can't saturate peoples' living areas like that, not without building an unnecessarily dense line of the extremely expensive waystones through the city in one direction.

A city has hundreds of thousands of residences. The number of Wizards currently making tributaries is three.

@Boney, I have two social ideas. One, Laurelorn date. Panoramia's probs got stuff to say about the various flora, and the Qhaysh waterfall might be a neat capstone.

This has already happened.

Two, checking in on the Library-We's education in general, and/or talking to it about religion. One of its teachers was a priestess IIRC.

The answer to those topics would be a thumbs up and a shrug, respectively. Hard to get a full action out of that.
 
One social action could potentially be checking in on the Hochlander in a more personal sense, give him more personality and seeing how the operations are going.

Also maybe checking in on the Jade wizards doing the tributary work, make sure things are going alright.
 
I don't know if Winds experience centrifugal force because I don't know enough about physics off the top of my head to know what the knock-on effects of answering yes or no would be.
They have to be experiencing centrifugal something, they're attracted to Dhar and the fact that spinning them around the Dhar counteracts that attraction means at minimum they're experiencing centrifugal acceleration. Whether or not they're experiencing centrifugal force depends on whether the Winds have mass, force is mass times acceleration so if the Winds do have mass they're experiencing centrifugal force while if they're massless they're experiencing centrifugal acceleration but not force. Though if the Winds have something equivalent to mass but isn't mass in the mundane sense, lets call it say "thaumic-mass" then acceleration times thaumic-mass presumably equals thaumic-force, so the winds would be experiencing centrifugal thaumic-force. How thaumic-mass and thaumic-force translates to mundane mass and force would be a complicated and possibly unanswerable question but if thaumic equivalents of mundane physical values existed then you would be able to translate mundane kinematics into magical kinematics without much of an issue.
 
This was a really fun update. It's cool to see the turn I planned wrapping up with so much progress.

[ ] Middenland
[ ] Nordland
I feel like we really need to get around to doing these, at least Nordland, but preferably both.

[ ] The Black Water Canal
[ ] Tzar Boris Bokha
These are time limited and feel important.

[ ] Kalishiniviks
Time limited but less important.

[ ] Eonir Tourism
This sounds fun but it doesn't feel urgent

[ ] Druchii Diplomats
We should get to this eventually but also doesn't feel urgent.
 
You look over the gathered representatives of seven separate magical traditions from four different nations - Elves, Dwarves, humans, Wizards and Witches and Lords. "The Waystone Project has come a long way," you say to them, "and so far we've been the equal of every obstacle. At least part of the credit for that goes to each of you, as well as the power of so many disparate traditions pulling together, but I suspect a part of it is that this final piece of the puzzle is going to turn out to be the really tricky bit."
We've come a long way with the Waystone Project, honestly a lot further and quicker than I think most people expected.

Several weeks later, a harried-looking Zlata and a smug-looking Niedzwenka sail back into the city. Their plans to confer with other Ice Witches - well, Zlata's plans to confer with other Ice Witches while Niedzwenka loiters nearby and frowns at them - went astray when their path took them through the lands of a Boyar who launched what most would call a very minor and mostly symbolic show of force to try to keep secure the expanded rights of Kislev's nobility. Niedzwenka, as it turned out, called it justification enough to rain hell and nightmares down upon those lands in general and the Boyar specifically. A deeply mixed blessing for the newly-crowned Tzar, who already had plans to bring the Boyars to heel but now also had devastation and terror to rebuild and recover from.

That, you suppose, is one of the benefits to being an ancient terror - instead of working around others, you get to be the one that other people have to work around.
Do I detect a bit of jealously and longing from Mathilde to become an Ancient Terror? She need not worry since the Wind Apotheosis has got her covered.

You toy with a number of potential solutions - a path relayed by Waystone-inspired menhirs, some sort of beacon to be carried by those who have permission to pass, a sort of punt-mounted Battle Altar - but in the end the method that comes up most promising on paper is to split the enchantment over two towers, with the path being projected directly between them. It's nowhere near as efficient as the original spell, but it doesn't have to be.

[Planning the Waystone Towers: Learning, 57+29+10(Enchanter)+5(Library: Enchantment)=101.]
[House Fanpatar understanding: 17.]

You're sure that the schematics that emerge over several weeks of effort are, if not your very finest work, then at least a solid demonstration of the concept, but it seems House Fanpatar's Mages disagree. You'd hoped that the common origin of the enchantment paradigm of the Eonir and the Grey Order would make the gap between the two bridgeable, but many fruitless days are spent trying to blaze a communicable path through the intuitive leaps that your design is built upon. Eventually, to your relief and theirs, the higher-ups of House Fanpatar decide to bring in someone hopefully more able to understand the bizarre ways of human enchantment.

[Sarvoi interrupt: 82.]

Sarvoi reads over the schematics, laughs, frowns, mutters something about cobbling for centipedes, then disappears for several days. When he returns it's with an armful of scrolls and a manic gleam in his eye, and he spends several weeks walking the Fanpatar Mages through your logic and several hours getting you to include details so minor and self-evident you have to look up how to actually describe them. By the time the year starts to draw to a close the foundations are being laid down for the towers, one atop a southern rise of the Misty Hills and the other among the ruins of Vorbegwerk. Without any further assistance from yourself it will likely take several years for the path to be completed, but it is underway.

[Major Trade Route: The Schadenweg, from Middenheim to Tor Lithanel via the Schadensumpf (estimated completion: late 2493)]
Mathilde breaks the Elf Mages understanding of magic, tries to explain but can't, Sarvoi comes in sees the problem and has the time of his life bridging the gap between human madness and normal Elf Mage thought processes.

"Great streamers of energy covering the sky from horizon to horizon, glowing so brightly that even the least gifted can see the shimmering in the air. Any one of those great ribbons would be enough to cause a storm of magic in more southern latitudes, but up here entirely focused on their flight from the Frontier of Chaos. The Kurgan Sorcerers of all eight Winds learn techniques for drawing in magic from far above that in the Empire are the sole domain of the Celestial Order. It is only once they reach the mountains that frame the southern border of the steppes that a facet of their nature that we would recognize reasserts itself, and they plunge downwards in intertangling Windfalls, scattering pearls of forbidden iridescence across the bone-strewn wastes."

Egrimm's verbiage is a bit flowery for academia, but it seems to be entertaining Eike. You toy with the idea of working it into the paper to entertain your readers, but the tone ends up clashing drastically between the descriptions and the technical details, so you end up having to leave it out. The result is still a fairly readable description of a fascinating magical phenomenon in far too dangerous a place to be visited safely, so you're confident it'll garner a decent amount of attention. Especially since it is an undeniably natural phenomena that results in the creation of Dhar, which goes against a lot of orthodox Sevirric theory that argues that as it is inherently unnatural, it can only be created by corrupted beings. You're careful to avoid any suggestion that this in any way legitimizes the energy or its use - it is merely an unfortunate side-effect of an otherwise beautiful process.

[Writing the paper: Learning, 51+29-10(Freshness: Faded)+7(Library: Sevir)=77.]
[Egrimm's contribution: 6+23=29.]
[Max's contribution: 55+18=73.]

[Observations on the Windfall on the Road of Skulls, 2490. Subject: Rare, +1. Insight: Shattering, +3. Delivery: Competent, +0. Exotic, +1. Varied, +1. Unpopular, -1. Shared Credit, -1. Total: +4.]
I can understand why this is a pretty unpopular paper given that it shows that Dhar can be made naturally which is a big no no in the Empire. Also looks like Egrimm is having fun teaching Eike, honestly good for him dude needs some happiness in his life.

[Squeezing the Vitae: Learning, 84+29=113.]

Your attention is yanked back to the task at hand as the Vitae stops pressing back against your will, and seems to shrink down in size as it drains away through a newly-formed slit in reality. As before, the miniature realm you can glimpse on the other side of the slit seems to be entirely normal in every measurable way. You keep your attention on it, ready to act or flee as needed, but time ticks by without anything untoward happening, and eventually you exhale. Maybe you simply got unlucky last time, or perhaps the being in question had been waiting for an opportunity to make its pitch to you. Either way, it seems that while the creation of a liminal realm isn't necessarily safe, it also isn't guaranteed to attract unwanted attention from the other side of the liminal barrier. You note your observations on the slit, including that the word 'slit' is inadequate. A slit is a hole in a two-dimensional object, allowing passage through it in a third dimension. This is a hole in three-dimensional reality, allowing passage through it in a fourth dimension. But as far as you know, no words for such a thing exists in Reikspiel, which was a language built for three spatial dimensions. Perhaps Anoqeyån, or Daemonic, or some other magical language has a vocabulary to describe these kinds of shapes. For now, you settle for noting that the shape of the 'hole' appears to be dipyramidal or trapezohedronal, while the empty grey realm on the other side appears spherical.

You bring over some more Vitae from a supply cache a safe distance away - it wouldn't do to have it right there when you're doing dangerous magical experimentation, after all - and begin trying to introduce it to the slit. You've performed enough experiments with the Vitae to reasonably think you can predict how it will react in a given situation, and for this one specifically you've theorized three possible results: either nothing happens, or it dissolves into Winds, or it dissolves into Winds and then dissolves away into a size increase of the liminal realm. At first you were hoping for the third of those options, and that the reaction is possible indefinitely instead of only in the initial moments after it is created, before you realized that if that was the case, it might make it impossible to bring any of the Vitae into the grounds of the Grey College without it dissolving, since it occupies a liminal realm of its own. So you watch with as much detached neutrality as you can maintain as more Vitae runs down a glass stirring rod and into the slit. Sure enough, the Vitae shatters into Winds and then shimmers into nothingness as it is absorbed into the liminal realm, but the reaction also travels back up the rod to the rest of the Vitae in the beaker and detonates the lot, causing the beaker to shatter and a small vortex of Winds to form as you jump backward
Holy shit yes, we've been waiting for this for so long. I'm so happy we've finally done it. Also Mathilde having a couple of sticks ready to poke at the distortion in reality is peak Human Wizardry, truly she's earned her place as a Lord Magister.

You spend some time at the bottom of that hole in reality, trying to figure out how to best make use of a perfectly spherical area, before doing the sensible thing and kicking the problem over to some Dwarves. You get a number of flat looks from the carpenters of Clan Ironspike as you lay out the requirements - building techniques to create structures within spherical caps of varying dimensions without drilling, nailing, or screwing into it. They ask you why, then insist you stop explaining why. After a great deal of thought, debate, and grumbling, they produce a set of schematics and joints that would allow one to build entire structures within a spherical realm, as long as they take up most of the space within it. Multiple completely separate structures within one spherical realm would, they speculate, be impossible to create with entirely mundane techniques.
These poor Dwai, they not only have to deal with magic shenanigans now they have to deal with high level reality bending magic that is even weirder and more reality bending than normal.
 
With Ulthuan about to enter stage left, trying to get something out of the DElves has become a matter of some importance, even if only for something to counter Ulthuan politically.
 
Good news: this area of research is already well-established and there's a fair few people out there actively trying to teach it to willing students.

Bad news: it's called Daemonology.
So you're saying it's a branding problem :p

More seriously I was thinking more about find secret, forgotten wizards caches instead of peeking into Khorne's bathroom. And maybe detecting veiled cultist lair to inflict violence upon them.

But if the practice is basically summoning maybe finding out how to manipulate rituals so that the unexpected comes out? I mean we probably can counterspell a summoning ritual in a pretty fatal manner but if a changer of fate is expected and a bloodthirster pops out it might be even more devastating - provided we do it far, far from friendly lines.
 
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