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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Angelform said:
Point 1) This is to some extent a choice between being a spymaster or a master spy.
Taking the Stewardship job would immediately put us at the top of a massive organisation with a fair number of broad duties. Most of Mathilde's time will be spent sitting in an office reading reports (both stewardship and intrigue based) and writing orders for other people to go deal with the problem. Most of her personal intervention will be spying on her own lieutenants to ensure the embezzling (there will/i] be embezzling) is at acceptable levels.
Taking the Learning job means Mathilde would be very much the point wizard for most of her work. She would need to build a web of informants out of her own resources (which are substantial) and act on the info sent to her personally.
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I agree with your point, but I disagree with your conclusion. When Mathilde was acting as purely a master spy, she was spending much more of her personal time to be effective vs when she was acting as a spy-master. The latter definitely took some set-up actions but once we were able to delegate, we had a lot more free time then we used to.
 
Also the biggest argument for scouting.

BoneyM said:
As before, dwarvern strategy has no natural place for someone with your abilities, so it is up to you to decide what your role will be.
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If Mathilde was simply Dwarven Ranger + This would absolutely not be true. Mathilde explicitly brings to the table things that the Dwarven forces simply aren't capable and more importantly that are Esoteric enough that there's no natural fit.

Quest said:
I agree with your point, but I disagree with your conclusion. When Mathilde was acting as purely a master spy, she was spending much more of her personal time to be effective vs when she was acting as a spy-master. The latter definitely took some set-up actions but once we were able to delegate, we had a lot more free time then we used to.
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Being the spy is definitely more time consuming than running the spy ring.
 
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thamuzz said:
Is this joke? Please tell me joke.

Lets finish one herculean task of Reclamation before diving headfirst into Mountain Vietnam. And maybe include some time for the Dawi to eat a damn sandwich and recover in between, no?
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Karak Varn was one of the Holds which were abandoned, but not conquered. So there's a possibility it's still empty. And Karak Ungor was the first one to fall. I'd have named Gunbad (for Brynduraz) or Ekrund(for gold, silver and Gromril) but Gunbad is the Greenskin capital
 
BoneyM said:
And then there's after your return, which will be tomorrow. Tomorrow. Wonderful devices, gyrocopters.


Vote for as many as you like. The three with the most votes will be selected.
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Quick question: I know this is the last Epilogue update, but I can't find where BoneyM said so. This is the last epilogue update, right?
 
Aegon Targaryen said:
Karak Varn was one of the Holds which were abandoned, but not conquered. So there's a possibility it's still empty. And Karak Ungor was the first one to fall. I'd have named Gunbad (for Brynduraz) or Ekrund(for gold, silver and Gromril) but Gunbad is the Greenskin capital
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If we are to do any Karak reclamation, it should be Karak Drazh - as it's a threat to our communication, even if not as much a threat as it could be.
 
If we do any Karak reclamation, it should probably be the one we haven't finished yet.
 
NSMS said:
If we do any Karak reclamation, it should probably be the one we haven't finished yet.
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Funny enough, k8p geography means that it's not as necessary. We control a very distinct defensive perimeter, and from the overland threat point of view, Karak Drazh is more of a threat than the non-retaken part of k8p.

Admittedley, the underground situation is different.

So, were it not for the exceptional amount of orcs in Karak Drazh, I'd advocate taking it as part of the next step of k8p reclamation.
 
@BoneyM ,where exactly is Und-Uzgar located? Am I right to assume that it guards the intersection of old and new Death Pass trade routes?

Is it too much trouble to ask you to mark it on the trade map?
 
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veekie said:
--Cons:
---High uncertainty. Being the weird shit specialist means you don't know when or where weird shit might crop up.
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To me, that con is a pro. I love investigating random weird shot. Never quite knowing what to expect is exciting.

Another point, we need to find a way spend all that moneyin a eay that is useful to our role. Grey Wizards are not supposed to be rich, and we are.

Some ideas if we become a learning advisor:
- An excellent laboratory and an extensive library. We will need that to properly investigate weird shit.
- Maybe we could establish some kind of lodge where other wizards can stay, with some attached basic laboratory and library, in the hope of attracting more Journeymanlings. A mix of wizards from different colleges would be helpful to our investigations.

I guess we can also easily justify buying some excellent Dwarven weapons. Karak Eight Peaks is dangerous.
 
I'm not entirely sure if people are aware of what an Orc Idol actually is, if you own WHFB Monsterous Arcanum you can look it up there but essentially they're on par with Dragons for how dangerous they are.

A Rogue idol which is the mid tier of them which I believe Boney used to describe them have the following Stat line

M7 WS4 S8 T7 W8 I2 A4 LD10
2+ Scaly save for armour.
Does 2d6 impact hits on a charge.


Mathilde is responsible for the Dwarves not having to face one of these in combat. We'd have lost a tonne of lives if we hadn't done that and there are equivalent things happening in all the peaks.
Adhoc vote count started by Sinsystems on Oct 1, 2019 at 9:38 AM, finished with 833 posts and 197 votes.
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Angelform said:
Regarding the Stewardship vs Learning advisor debate.

Two points to make:
Point 1) This is to some extent a choice between being a spymaster or a master spy.
Taking the Stewardship job would immediately put us at the top of a massive organisation with a fair number of broad duties. Most of Mathilde's time will be spent sitting in an office reading reports (both stewardship and intrigue based) and writing orders for other people to go deal with the problem. Most of her personal intervention will be spying on her own lieutenants to ensure the embezzling (there will be embezzling) is at acceptable levels.
Taking the Learning job means Mathilde would be very much the point wizard for most of her work. She would need to build a web of informants out of her own resources (which are substantial) and act on the info sent to her personally.

For myself I prefer the PC to be out doing.

Point 2) Mathilde already has much of what Stewardship would give, just on a smaller scale. As a boss of the EIC she already has an easy in for making a web of informants. Being stinking rich means setting up an adventurer guild and or dedicated spy ring can be done without the support of a larger organisation. Her reputation alone gives here substantial influence and either advisor position would grant authority.

While neither position gives Mathilde options she couldn't access some other way Stewardship costs a lot more attention for the benefits it provides than Learning.
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As a counterpoint, choosing Learning means that K8P isn't benefiting from the unique benefits from the Runepriest/GyroCaptain leaders unless we spend actions delegating and overseeing them, whereas with Stewardship having Wilhelmina and the EIC on call as well as our old spy ring, we can delegate most gruntwork to them and still have actions to spare doing anything unique we could bring to the Learning position.

None of the Stewardship candidates are as valuable or unique in terms of action economy as the Learning candidates, and by choosing the Stewardship position we're going from the average of delegating one to two Learning actions per turn and possibly choosing between advancing dwarf magic or dwarf technology, to delegating one Stewardship action per turn on advancing economics and effectively getting an extra three Learning actions dedicated to dwarf magic and tech.
 
Quest said:
I agree with your point, but I disagree with your conclusion. When Mathilde was acting as purely a master spy, she was spending much more of her personal time to be effective vs when she was acting as a spy-master. The latter definitely took some set-up actions but once we were able to delegate, we had a lot more free time then we used to.
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Thematically
The difference is that as Steward we will be a spymaster who employs master spies and very occasionally, in very dire circumstances, goes out to get her hands dirty.
As a Learning Wizard we will be a master spy who employs a spymaster to tell us where we can find things to deal with and occasionally, in dire circumstances, calls in an army to help us.

A Stewardship advisor is expected to sit in an office and organise.
A Learning advisor is expected to ride around troubleshooting.
Both by necessity do a bit of the other but it is not their focus.

Mechanically
Having organisations with lieutenants converts personal actions to organisation actions. Back in Stirland we spent one action on two organisations. That as just a spymaster still in the process of trying to set up our stuff.
Being Steward for a Karak would involve having:
People organising local trade. Inspectors for traders. Local EIC branch. Optional non-EIC traders. Our temple / tavern / adventurer guild. Death Pass patrols, or a liaison for same. Then the Information network itself.
Being Learning Wizard would only need the adventurer guild and information network.

Troubleshooting in person would require more personal actions per turn. But as Steward we would have less personal actions available.

Conclusion
It is a question of if you want Mathilde to spend most of her time delegating or most of her time doing hands-on work.
I prefer the latter.
 
Also, frustrated tactical re-voting;

[X] Remain in Karak Eight Peaks, either in the employ of Belegar or pursuing your research.
[X] Keep them to be hatched.
[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with its reconquest, as a Spymaster focused on threats within the Karak.
[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.
[X] Though your future relationship with the spiders is still unknown, they do appear to be a new species and you do have a number of corpses available. Have Esbern and Seija help you autopsy the creatures for a paper.
 
Angelform said:
Thematically
The difference is that as Steward we will be a spymaster who employs master spies and very occasionally, in very dire circumstances, goes out to get her hands dirty.
As a Learning Wizard we will be a master spy who employs a spymaster to tell us where we can find things to deal with and occasionally, in dire circumstances, calls in an army to help us.

A Stewardship advisor is expected to sit in an office and organise.
A Learning advisor is expected to ride around troubleshooting.
Both by necessity do a bit of the other but it is not their focus.
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Haha, what? This is very wrong; all choosing a position pins down is what focus the actions we suggest and carry out to Belegor are.

Learning or Stewardship, doesn't matter, either can focus more on investigating in person or sending others to do so.

The only difference in my mind, is who we're displacing and therefore not getting use from unless we spend actions working with them.
 
Das good.

Only now I realize I spent a good six hours to read the fifty pages of discussion I was behind on...

Hey folks, is there a colored spell that grants a straight up Ward save?
 
Angelform said:
Thematically
The difference is that as Steward we will be a spymaster who employs master spies and very occasionally, in very dire circumstances, goes out to get her hands dirty.
As a Learning Wizard we will be a master spy who employs a spymaster to tell us where we can find things to deal with and occasionally, in dire circumstances, calls in an army to help us.

A Stewardship advisor is expected to sit in an office and organise.
A Learning advisor is expected to ride around troubleshooting.
Both by necessity do a bit of the other but it is not their focus.
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I heavily disagree with what is expected of us as a steward. BoneyM has been clear that K8P has no economy to speak of right now. We will be building that economy and as such, what will be expected of us is up to us. We will be given a wide latitude to work however we want as long as we keep delivering results.
Angelform said:
Mechanically
Having organisations with lieutenants converts personal actions to organisation actions. Back in Stirland we spent one action on two organisations. That as just a spymaster still in the process of trying to set up our stuff.
Being Steward for a Karak would involve having:
People organising local trade. Inspectors for traders. Local EIC branch. Optional non-EIC traders. Our temple / tavern / adventurer guild. Death Pass patrols, or a liaison for same. Then the Information network itself.
Being Learning Wizard would only need the adventurer guild and information network.

Troubleshooting in person would require more personal actions per turn. But as Steward we would have less personal actions available.
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You do realise that we won't be joining an organisation, but rather building it up from the ground up, yes? We decide who we delegate to, how many organisations we run, and how much time that takes us.

Plus, larger number of underlings doesn't mean it'd take us more actions. While we chose to use at least one action for work as a spy-master, we never had to use any actions to order our underlings. We just got to decide their focus.
 
So I was trawling through wiki entries, and apparently there's a great temple to Grimnir somewhere in K8P that many slayers have tried and failed to reclaim in canon Warhammer. Does anyone know where that is?
 
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