Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
Hmmm. Now that I think about it, Kroark is basically a Glass Death Star. He probably has really shitty base stats, but huge learning and Magic.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] All this time away has made you miss your friends, and you'll be practically next door in Altdorf. Visit Anton and Wilhelmina.
Why not? We've earned a break or three from focusing on the Karaks. Time to check up on our old stomping grounds. Also Stewardship focus is definitely an interesting pick, if not necessarily the 'best' one. Definitely a worthwhile pick.
Why not? We've earned a break or three from focusing on the Karaks. Time to check up on our old stomping grounds. Also Stewardship focus is definitely an interesting pick, if not necessarily the 'best' one. Definitely a worthwhile pick.
There is a difference between Marienburg having a temple of Ranald among a dozen or two of other gods, and with Ranald becoming the principal deity of Karak Eight Peaks humans.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Scouting is something we absolutely need to do, each peak was said to have some kind of plot happening. We saw this personally our selves with the Orc ritual/idol and if we hadn't interrupted there we'd have had to face an Idol of the Orc gods which would have done a number on our army. Another example is the deal that was going down between the Green skins and the Skaven. The Rangers weren't able to do either of those things themselves.
The rangers are great for conventional scouting but they don't have illusion magic bolstering them. Take no heed, Mind hole and Doppleganger lets us infiltrate into situations that the rangers can't even get close to. So whilst I sympathise with those thinking that the rangers will be able to get information unless they get stupidly lucky they can't achieve what Mathilde can on moderate rolls. The thing to remember is that the Rangers are scouts, not spies and certainly not magical spies.
The Rangers would be able to warn us conventionally once the plots have become external to their situations for instance if night goblins were herding their squigs towards us for an attack but they're not going to be able to find out if for instance a skaven warplock engineer is building a massive warpbomb. There's a lot of situations that Mathilde can find out about and nip in the bud that the Rangers are incapable of finding out about.
The rangers are great for conventional scouting but they don't have illusion magic bolstering them. Take no heed, Mind hole and Doppleganger lets us infiltrate into situations that the rangers can't even get close to. So whilst I sympathise with those thinking that the rangers will be able to get information unless they get stupidly lucky they can't achieve what Mathilde can on moderate rolls. The thing to remember is that the Rangers are scouts, not spies and certainly not magical spies.
The Rangers would be able to warn us conventionally once the plots have become external to their situations for instance if night goblins were herding their squigs towards us for an attack but they're not going to be able to find out if for instance a skaven warplock engineer is building a massive warpbomb. There's a lot of situations that Mathilde can find out about and nip in the bud that the Rangers are incapable of finding out about.
- Location
- Australia
We can do it next turn. We were told we'd get warned when the last opportunity to build the Ranald shrine came up and we haven't received that warning, so we've still got at least one turn of epilogue to go. Best to visit Anton and Wilhelmina right now while we're in the Empire then go scouting next turn.
- Location
- Aotearoa
You make an excellent argument for letting the scouts scout.
On the other hand "all this time away from your friends" is about maybe four-five months.
We'd spend just about as long locked in our palace-shrine on whatever our obsession of the turn was.
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Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
[X] Remain in Karak Eight Peaks, either in the employ of Belegar or pursuing your research.
[X] Give them away...
- [X] To the Amber College
[X] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[x] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
[X] All this time away has made you miss your friends, and you'll be practically next door in Altdorf. Visit Anton and Wilhelmina.
[X] Give them away...
- [X] To the Amber College
[X] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[x] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
[X] All this time away has made you miss your friends, and you'll be practically next door in Altdorf. Visit Anton and Wilhelmina.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's a difference between being told when we'd have our last chance for something we can feasibly realize IC. We have absolutely no way of knowing when the enemy will act.
- Location
- Austria
Well, getting back with friends for a bit is useful in that both Anton and Wilhelmine will have some use for K8P, and vice versa.
Especially Wilhelmine - EIC can get filthy rich from trade there, and K8P will be only better off for it. So it's not like we are abandoning Belegar there.
Still, I would prefer to scout the depths of K8P sooner rather than later. Skaven are scary gits.
Especially Wilhelmine - EIC can get filthy rich from trade there, and K8P will be only better off for it. So it's not like we are abandoning Belegar there.
Still, I would prefer to scout the depths of K8P sooner rather than later. Skaven are scary gits.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's a difference between scouting and supernatural infiltration.You make an excellent argument for letting the scouts scout.
On the other hand "all this time away from your friends" is about maybe four-five months.
We'd spend just about as long locked in our palace-shrine on whatever our obsession of the turn was.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
It's in tome of corruption, there's numerous ways to get magic boosted, a number of them state you explode if you go beyond magic X. You could call it a game conceit but tome of corruption in general really doesn't give a shit about power scaling and balance.
Being a battle wizard is basically a side upgrade to the wizards in the RP, they have the same magical skill and power but they draw winds from across an entire battlefield. Hence why they explode from miscasts where as the normal spells in the RP have rather small issues unless you're overcooking the spell.
That's... ridiculous? We'll know about the Ranald shrine issue because it's something the character can know about it has no bearing on the scouting situation because Mathilde doesn't know what she doesn't know. Anything could be happening there we're not going to get an OOC warning that we need to investigate now lest we get warp bombed (as an example) because Mathilde has no idea it's coming. We could visit our friends any time, but our magical scouting is something that pays dividends in being done sooner rather than later.
Yes but we could visit them next turn, and I'd certainly be willing to do it then.
You make an excellent argument for letting the scouts scout.
On the other hand "all this time away from your friends" is about maybe four-five months.
We'd spend just about as long locked in our palace-shrine on whatever our obsession of the turn was.
The scouts would love to be able to do what Mathilde can do and literally go inside enemy forts to give more accurate information, but that'd be suicide for them so they don't. I'm not particularly pleased with the flippancy in remarking that i'm making a point for letting the scouts scout because you know exactly what I meant and you know that us scouting the other peaks in K8P is more than just looking at them from the outside which is what the rangers are limited to.
if you want to visit our friends over scouting K8P then say that, don't pretend it's some how optimal for scouting K8P to be done by the rangers alone or that they're better at what is being proposed than Mathilde when we've reams of evidence to show they're not. The rangers would never have been able to stop that Orc ritual from taking place or from stopping the awakening of that idol, something which could well have ripped through the forces retaking K8P. They'd never have been able to assassinate the green skins in such a way as to cause schism between the skaven and Grobi in the area leading to them fighting.
Mathilde scouting K8P would mean a shit load more information is gathered compared to what the Rangers alone can do.
Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
I find the Tabletop to be rather unreliable, since both Gelt and Kroak are Level 4 Wizards and I think there's no one among us who thinks those two are equal.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Remain in Karak Eight Peaks, either in the employ of Belegar or pursuing your research.
[X] Keep them to be hatched.
[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with its reconquest, as a Spymaster focused on threats within the Karak.
[X] All this time away has made you miss your friends, and you'll be practically next door in Altdorf. Visit Anton and Wilhelmina.
This suggests a future in Stirland, whether Roswita likes it or not.
[X] Though your future relationship with the spiders is still unknown, they do appear to be a new species and you do have a number of corpses available. Have Esbern and Seija help you autopsy the creatures for a paper.
This suggests a future of investigation and study at Karak Eight Peaks, and perhaps helping Johann poke at Skaven technology.
+1 Internal Intriguery
+1 Trade/friends/remaining identity ties
+1 research K8P, closer ties with Johann
As for our Council role...
Become Steward. Hire Wilhelmina and entire EIC. Expand administration massively with some of our 18+ Mathilde-weight in silver.
Profit. Re-invest. Karag & Stirland & College profit.
Use one action per turn overseeing someone capable enough to handle the role on her very own. Use others to research our backlog and ghostwrite the Learning position when interesting.
[X] Keep them to be hatched.
[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with its reconquest, as a Spymaster focused on threats within the Karak.
[X] All this time away has made you miss your friends, and you'll be practically next door in Altdorf. Visit Anton and Wilhelmina.
This suggests a future in Stirland, whether Roswita likes it or not.
[X] Though your future relationship with the spiders is still unknown, they do appear to be a new species and you do have a number of corpses available. Have Esbern and Seija help you autopsy the creatures for a paper.
This suggests a future of investigation and study at Karak Eight Peaks, and perhaps helping Johann poke at Skaven technology.
+1 Internal Intriguery
+1 Trade/friends/remaining identity ties
+1 research K8P, closer ties with Johann
As for our Council role...
Become Steward. Hire Wilhelmina and entire EIC. Expand administration massively with some of our 18+ Mathilde-weight in silver.
Profit. Re-invest. Karag & Stirland & College profit.
Use one action per turn overseeing someone capable enough to handle the role on her very own. Use others to research our backlog and ghostwrite the Learning position when interesting.
My vote isn't for some reason lumped in with the others in the tally but I hope it still counts.
Just checked and Mathilde talked to Wilhelmina just before leaving with the Expedition.
Considering the distances involved and the fact that as a pseudo-medieval setting people that live really far apart don't visit each other as often there's no real reason for Mathilde to be that homesick.
She can very well see Wilhelmina next year.
On the flip side dealing with gribblies in Karak Eight Peaks is pretty time sensitive. Sure all the really immediate threats have been knocked down a peg but that's a situation that can change in a matter of days or weeks not months.
Well, may as well chat on what the posts give:
-Head Ranger
--Pros:
---Lots of Favor gaining stuff like hunting gribblies, enemy heroes.
---Opportunities to encounter greenskin and skaven loot and activities for research papers.
---High opportunities to influence the future of the Eight Peaks reclaimation.
---Lots of chances to trigger the Protector coin. People all around Eight Peaks are going to be constantly aware that we're doing a protect.
--Cons:
---Higher personal risk, Mathilde on these trips tends to be basically solo because her stealth methods cannot be shared or replicated.
---Busy job long term, theres a lot of threats to scout and hunt down, and our workaholic tendencies means that we're a little more likely to leave our research items or social obligation on standby repeatedly. Lives ARE at stake.
---Limited ability to influence geopolitics when we're out stabbing monsters.
-Steward
--Pros:
---Very high influence over geopolitics. Lots of room to put agents and rumors as we like.
---High freedom in how to organize Umdungi social and economic structures.
---The scary Grey Wizard is probably one of the few things the ex-adventurers are reliably going to listen to, next to Angry Longbeard.
---EIC can be leveraged to help jumpstart things.
---King himself is an expert in this area.
---Broad skillset needed. We have a braod skillset.
--Cons:
---Very high influence over geopolitics. Lots of room to offend people.
---Bootstrapping an economy from literally nothing is going to be extremely timeconsuming. The easiest is to liberally tax travelers and merchants, allowing the dwarf and halfling economies to focus on the war effort.
---Good help is hard to find. You don't tend to find economists and lawyers as adventurers, we'd need to hire out. And theres a LOT of room for embezzlement everywhere, which will be met with sticky fingers without sufficient supervision. And without good help we'd be largely unable to leave the job for long.
---High Diplomacy preferred. There's going to be a lot of dealing with people who aren't going to be wholly professional about things, and Mathilde doesn't have a lot of options for talking them down nicely.
---Its liable to draw some attention from the College, seeing as its the next thing to setting ourselves up as a petty King. Just to make sure we're on the level.
---Short of major pushes or randomly joining our Umdungi patrols, our chances of seeing action is likely to drop significantly.
---Once we work through our existing research materials it doesn't offer many chances for more R&D.
-Wizard
--Pros:
---High opportunity to gather research paper material while working, translating to incidental College favors.
---Wide remit, anything weird or difficult to solve can be presented as our area of interest.
---Decent chances of triggering Protector by saving people from spoopy threats
--Cons:
---High uncertainty. Being the weird shit specialist means you don't know when or where weird shit might crop up.
---We're the only one. Unless we attract significant numbers of Journeymen or take on apprentices, we're a department of one.
---Without Ritualist, and with our barely developed Enchanting outclassed by dwarf work, our contributions outside of finding trouble to shoot is going to be relatively limited.
-Head Ranger
--Pros:
---Lots of Favor gaining stuff like hunting gribblies, enemy heroes.
---Opportunities to encounter greenskin and skaven loot and activities for research papers.
---High opportunities to influence the future of the Eight Peaks reclaimation.
---Lots of chances to trigger the Protector coin. People all around Eight Peaks are going to be constantly aware that we're doing a protect.
--Cons:
---Higher personal risk, Mathilde on these trips tends to be basically solo because her stealth methods cannot be shared or replicated.
---Busy job long term, theres a lot of threats to scout and hunt down, and our workaholic tendencies means that we're a little more likely to leave our research items or social obligation on standby repeatedly. Lives ARE at stake.
---Limited ability to influence geopolitics when we're out stabbing monsters.
-Steward
--Pros:
---Very high influence over geopolitics. Lots of room to put agents and rumors as we like.
---High freedom in how to organize Umdungi social and economic structures.
---The scary Grey Wizard is probably one of the few things the ex-adventurers are reliably going to listen to, next to Angry Longbeard.
---EIC can be leveraged to help jumpstart things.
---King himself is an expert in this area.
---Broad skillset needed. We have a braod skillset.
--Cons:
---Very high influence over geopolitics. Lots of room to offend people.
---Bootstrapping an economy from literally nothing is going to be extremely timeconsuming. The easiest is to liberally tax travelers and merchants, allowing the dwarf and halfling economies to focus on the war effort.
---Good help is hard to find. You don't tend to find economists and lawyers as adventurers, we'd need to hire out. And theres a LOT of room for embezzlement everywhere, which will be met with sticky fingers without sufficient supervision. And without good help we'd be largely unable to leave the job for long.
---High Diplomacy preferred. There's going to be a lot of dealing with people who aren't going to be wholly professional about things, and Mathilde doesn't have a lot of options for talking them down nicely.
---Its liable to draw some attention from the College, seeing as its the next thing to setting ourselves up as a petty King. Just to make sure we're on the level.
---Short of major pushes or randomly joining our Umdungi patrols, our chances of seeing action is likely to drop significantly.
---Once we work through our existing research materials it doesn't offer many chances for more R&D.
-Wizard
--Pros:
---High opportunity to gather research paper material while working, translating to incidental College favors.
---Wide remit, anything weird or difficult to solve can be presented as our area of interest.
---Decent chances of triggering Protector by saving people from spoopy threats
--Cons:
---High uncertainty. Being the weird shit specialist means you don't know when or where weird shit might crop up.
---We're the only one. Unless we attract significant numbers of Journeymen or take on apprentices, we're a department of one.
---Without Ritualist, and with our barely developed Enchanting outclassed by dwarf work, our contributions outside of finding trouble to shoot is going to be relatively limited.
- Location
- Australia
Are you sure it doesn't have anything to do with the whole Chaos stuff? Seems from that picture that it's the Chaos that makes you explode at Magic 5, not the Magic 5 itself.It's in tome of corruption, there's numerous ways to get magic boosted, a number of them state you explode if you go beyond magic X. You could call it a game conceit but tome of corruption in general really doesn't give a shit about power scaling and balance.
That's not what I meant. Just saying that we'll get to scout before we decide on our new profession (or lackthereof) in K8P.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Well to be fair Kroak on the tabletop is very much dead and can only use the echoes of his last spell, while still being a match for Gelt in terms of power.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Kroak is dead and so drastically weakened in the TT, but yes ultimately the WHFB TT is primarily a game and a setting second so ofcourse there's parity between characters where there absolutely shouldn't be.
Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
What I was trying to say is just because in Game having 10+ magic would mean we explode it's not a given we would in the Quest as well.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It's in tome of corruption, there's numerous ways to get magic boosted, a number of them state you explode if you go beyond magic X. You could call it a game conceit but tome of corruption in general really doesn't give a shit about power scaling and balance.
Being a battle wizard is basically a side upgrade to the wizards in the RP, they have the same magical skill and power but they draw winds from across an entire battlefield. Hence why they explode from miscasts where as the normal spells in the RP have rather small issues unless you're overcooking the spell.
That's... ridiculous? We'll know about the Ranald shrine issue because it's something the character can know about it has no bearing on the scouting situation because Mathilde doesn't know what she doesn't know. Anything could be happening there we're not going to get an OOC warning that we need to investigate now lest we get warp bombed (as an example) because Mathilde has no idea it's coming. We could visit our friends any time, but our magical scouting is something that pays dividends in being done sooner rather than later.
Yes but we could visit them next turn, and I'd certainly be willing to do it then.
The scouts would love to be able to do what Mathilde can do and literally go inside enemy forts to give more accurate information, but that'd be suicide for them so they don't. I'm not particularly pleased with the flippancy in remarking that i'm making a point for letting the scouts scout because you know exactly what I meant and you know that us scouting the other peaks in K8P is more than just looking at them from the outside which is what the rangers are limited to.
if you want to visit our friends over scouting K8P then say that, don't pretend it's some how optimal for scouting K8P to be done by the rangers alone or that they're better at what is being proposed than Mathilde when we've reams of evidence to show they're not. The rangers would never have been able to stop that Orc ritual from taking place or from stopping the awakening of that idol, something which could well have ripped through the forces retaking K8P. They'd never have been able to assassinate the green skins in such a way as to cause schism between the skaven and Grobi in the area leading to them fighting.
Mathilde scouting K8P would mean a shit load more information is gathered compared to what the Rangers alone can do.
Uh, the examples from Tome of Corruption are all "The Chaos Gods shove more magic power in you with wild abandon", it's not weird for that to go "And then you explode when you reach a tipping point because that's half the fun of being a Chaos Follower". Same as why reaching a certain level of mutations automatically turns you into Chaos Spawn.
There's literally no 'Conventional' mechanism in the rulebooks that allow you to go over Magic 5 using other methods, and the one book that theoretically did (Realms of Sorcery, a theoretical Wizard Lord PC with a Familiar who had Magic Power who also downed the +magic potion) didn't seem to comment on it being a game breaker.
- Location
- United States of America
So, interesting thought... if we want to improve our intrigue levels, could we learn the skill "impersonation?" We know that Doppelganger doesn't mask our voice and the sounds that we make, but we could learn to impersonate the different vocal patterns of Greenskins so that it would be harder for Orcs or Goblins to tell that we weren't a Greenskin when using the spell.
It would be a pretty interesting way to get around the drawback of Doppelganger and would be totally something the Grey Order teaches.
It would be a pretty interesting way to get around the drawback of Doppelganger and would be totally something the Grey Order teaches.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Ah I see where you're coming from now, I disagree though it's very important that we do the scouting now even more so if you're correct as there are options unlocked by taking them. One of which is almost certainly going to involve putting the kibosh on any activities we find presumably at a specific peak.
It could well be that but the extreme difficulty in getting to magic 5 in the first place kind of paints a picture, I'll grant it could well just come down to the capricious nature of the chaos gods though.
- Location
- Austria
Yeah,but we'd be hanging around Empire for a bit anyway, might as well talk to them
It's not like we'll be running to Stirland and back every bloody week afterwards, takes too much time.
That's actually...
Well, there've been a number of people who wanted to eventually develop a chapterhouse of Colleges in K8P. Learning focus is clearly the best path to that.
And we can always ask Greys for apprentice if we want one. We probably will want at least one, really, so that we can handle both keeping tabs on Intrigue among humans/traders and do research/stab things in the mountains.