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Remember we do want to codify this for the college. Is every magister or battle wizard thst decides to pick up a rider going to be as able to spam teleports as Mathilde? Would it be *more* useful if they could deploy their riders to assist an army unit in breaking an enemy line? Sure, I imagine other wizards will eventually put their own spin on Twilight Rider deployment, but this is what they'll have first.
I mean, on the flip side, most wizards aren't nearly as killy in melee combat as Mathilde, which is a kinder way of saying that they're vulnerable to assholes jumping in their shit. Bodyguard Knights suddenly appearing when they get in a fight is a great way for them to not die.

Its also not like the Grey Wizards don't already have battlemagic for killing an enemy unit or breaking their lines.
 
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Got it; thank you. In my defense, I am very tired (the actual wedding is in, oh god, sixteen hours, but it's been a hell of a week) and I also usually think of Mathilde's actions as "AP" rather than as "actions".
Congrats! All the best to you and yours!

Now as for the actual vote... generally more is better for something like this but how far do we want to take it? I am inclined to go for 6 knights myself. 10 might limit it to relatively fewer people capable of casting it and even then might also limit the circumstances where it can actually be used.
 
Me thinks we should have gone for whispering fog if we wanted the staff of mistery to apply.

I don't want to do full on battlemagic where we can't take advantage of the staff of mistery's buff. I especially don't want to do that when we need immediate melee help and under stress. We are likely to have debuffs then.

Personally, I think this has become a great anti-caster spell, rather than the anti-melee spell we are (still) looking for.

So I'm definitely all in on only one. On top of that, I think either Duel or Bodyguard is the best, with me leaning towards duel.
 
...Alright. In that case, I can support Trio if we take instinctive or bodyguard since that would allow us to cast outside of combat with whatever safety precautions we can gin up (we could do that, right?) and have it be "active" going into the fight ready to go.

Anything else, and I'd stick to One so that safe casting is possible. "Once battle-tested, you don't have to roll for miscast" is an incredibly major benefit. Better a single rider we can use regularly than a collection we risk dying to every time, imo.
Me thinks we should have gone for whispering fog if we wanted the staff of mistery to apply.
I know I voted for that, lol. If we take a One option, we might even have the action economy to circle around to it before elfcation! Maybe.
 
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Nice update, love the descriptions of the sensations of binding to the apparition (I was worried about that too).

Question: correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 'Cataclysm Magic' the one that can only be used during Storms of Chaos?
 
Duel and Charge both sound like great options, but if we want to go all in on the theming of the Dämmerlichtreiter, I have to support Bodyguard, evoking the memory of Mathilde defending Van Hal, and the legend as a protector against evil.
 
Honestly. All and every single one of these options in every combination would be awesome and incredibly valuable for the college as a whole.

@Boney how much of a concern is friendly fire? Assuming we don't pick directed.

And if we do pick directed can we control more than one rider at a time?

and once more. If we pick directed can we direct them to take non combat actions? Like leading someone into an ambush. Creating a distraction. Or kidnapping.

I kind of figure most of this is in the realm of spell masteries. But I'd like to hear your thoughts.
 
Personally, I think this has become a great anti-caster spell, rather than the anti-melee spell we are (still) looking for.

So I'm definitely all in on only one. On top of that, I think either Duel or Bodyguard is the best, with me leaning towards duel.
Due to it being cast ahead of time and left dormant within Mathilde, Bodyguard means it suddenly becomes a fantastic anti-melee and anti-ambush spell for grey wizards in general, and a fantastic melee spell for us because it takes our already killy Mathilde and adds backup dancers of Fuck You.
 
Seems I was right in assuming the staff doesn't apply. That kills Band, and probably Lance, but I still would really like the latter. It would be easier to cast than Band, and won't need to consume as much Winds, while still being sizeable enough to be a large threat, which is important. The action cost is likely to be difficult though, on top of the Battle Magic thing, so I suppose Trio is the more likely to win size when it comes to groups.
 
Worth pointing out here that One is only maybe sub-battle magic. This might end up as battle magic with no staff bonus irrelevant of what is chosen.
 
I think my preference here is for One. Not for tactics, or AP or, or spell complexity or anything like that, but for theme:

It's the Dämmerlichtreiter. Simple as that.

[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Ambush
The Rider will appear near the chosen target and strike them once before disappearing. Further strikes will require the spell to be cast again.
Ah yes, hit them when they're not looking. The Morkish corruption option. :V

Though for what this one is worth, I expect being blindsided by the Dämmerlichtreiter might also have good synergy with Ulgu, for the whole "surprise and showmanship" aspect of it.

[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
The Rider will lay dormant until you attack or are attacked by someone, at which point it will manifest and fight alongside you until combat is over or it is slain.
Yeah, I am just going full thematic here but I feel like Bodyguard is the closest available option to the legend I want to invoke: A protector and servant. Not quite controlled (The classic Cat-Thilde as much as the competent and loyal servant)

...can this be lightly retrained to specifically go after necromancy instead of simply destructive magic?
...Or this, yes. Specifically being a bane of necromancers and those who would defile the dead would also work with the theme.

Remember we do want to codify this for the college. Is every magister or battle wizard thst decides to pick up a rider going to be as able to spam teleports as Mathilde? Would it be *more* useful if they could deploy their riders to assist an army unit in breaking an enemy line? Sure, I imagine other wizards will eventually put their own spin on Twilight Rider deployment, but this is what they'll have first.
Beyond wizards, Here's a fun thought: Would the spell be able to be bound in Mathilde's Mystical Matrix?
 
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So. i am looking at this spell as something that has 3 main options.
1) single target damage. this is the duel/ambush option.
2) mass damage. this is the charge option
3) middle of the road. this is the bodyguard option.

we are already pretty set on single target damage between teleport and our sword.

we have better options for mass damage in the form of other battle magic if we want to learn that (pit or pendulum).

so i think we should take versatility and get a couple of dudes to help us kill stuff or escape as needed. 3 total gives us a significant extra punch while not being too rough to cast.

[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[ ] [NUMBER] Trio
 
One minor detail about this spell is that, since it's going to be mainly used by Ulgu Battle Wizards, Bodyguard can be an issue if it's miscasted and releases the Rider near them. Now that we know its literal only guiding purpose in life is to murder destructive mages, it being nearby when it's released means it could be close to whatever Battle Wizards are in the fight, not to mention the summoner. If it's one of the others, that at least allows the possibility that the Rider'll be further away from the wizards when it goes rogue, and gives them time to run.

Admittedly, I don't think it'll matter that much overall, but still.
 
Due to it being cast ahead of time and left dormant within Mathilde, Bodyguard means it suddenly becomes a fantastic anti-melee and anti-ambush spell for grey wizards in general, and a fantastic melee spell for us because it takes our already killy Mathilde and adds backup dancers of Fuck You.
Yes, if it's not battlemagic. Because it will be cast when you are being mobbed/losing (by the nature of a bodyguard spell), and the less ways to screw it up the better.

Also, then more people could learn it, too, as it wouldn't necessarily be subject to battle magic restrictions.



Also, as a side note, it's tendency to target destructive spells means we probably shouldn't learn the Grey's destruction magic, like Pit of Shades, or Penumbral Pendulum. This kinda explains to me why we might be the first to use the Horsies.
 
Beyond wizards, Here's a fun thought: Would the spell be able to be bound in Mathilde's Mystical Matrix?

... huh.

I feel like that shouldn't be allowed, since it can't possibly be simple to attach an apparition to someone else's soul.

Maybe there's a technique that can do it, but I doubt journeywoman Mathilde's first neat trick is up to the task.

I'm basically saying we might need to invent Mathilde's Massively Modular Mystical Matrix, first. :V
 
If we go back later and make a second spell with Riders, would there be a new vote for how they looked, or would they automatically be Mathilde-shaped? Feels like it'd be skirting relitigation, but it would also be a different spell...
 
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Yes, if it's not battlemagic. Because it will be cast when you are being mobbed/losing (by the nature of a bodyguard spell), and the less ways to screw it up the better.
Bodyguard isn't cast in combat while being mobbed or losing, it is cast ahead of time while safe, and then stored dormant but ready in the caster's soul until they're attacked at which point their bodyguards trigger, so no that entire argument is bullshit.

The other complaints are valid though, although even at only 1 its only possibly not a battle magic, and 3 is a lot more effective than 1.
 
Something that now has me leaning towards Bodyguard, when before I was leaning to Charge, is that it's one of the three options that don't necessarily involve the target being destroyed. The others, Directed and Ambush, have their own problems, so if Mathilde has to use the Rider/s in a situation where she doesn't necessarily want the opposing target to die, such as a Supreme P/Matriarch duel, Bodyguard would be the best option for it.

On the other hand, a quickdraw Charge of Riders may just be what Mathilde needs to keep Dragomas from transforming so...
 
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Directed
You will be able to give the Rider moment-to-moment instructions to do just about anything, but you will need to focus most of your attention on it while it is summoned.
This feels fairly useless to us. The whole advantage of this is action economy in battle where every second counts. If this was the only spell we knew I could see it, but that is unlikely to be the case of any wizard able to catch a few red ri
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Instinctive
The Rider will lay dormant until someone or something within several kilometers uses destructive magic, at which point it will manifest and hone in on that being and attempt to destroy them.
Unfortunately we are a wizard and lots of our friends are wizards. This doesn't work unless we can somehow work in an automatic friend foe recognition.
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Duel
The Rider will appear at your location and move towards a chosen individual, and will engage them until it or the Rider is slain.
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
The Rider will appear at your location and charge towards a specific group of people, and will engage them until it is slain or the group is destroyed or shattered.
Both very useful behaviors that we are likely to call on and don't require our concentration. Not sure what the difference really is can we not have it charge at a group of 1?
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
The Rider will lay dormant until you attack or are attacked by someone, at which point it will manifest and fight alongside you until combat is over or it is slain.
This is really great if it's able to eat incoming destructive magic. @Boney How long would we be able to keep it in this mode?
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Ambush
The Rider will appear near the chosen target and strike them once before disappearing. Further strikes will require the spell to be cast again.
I don't see a single advantage of this mode over charge or duel.
 
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