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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I'm not even against trading with the Druchii, but I don't see the point of relitigating the Kurgan and Uzkulak trades. They're just not particularly relevant, as far as I can see.

Whether you regard them as reasonable actions given the circumstances or mistakes, they were a minimum (assuming no significant time passed between making those trades and returning, and that neither our post-expedition interlude nor the Waystone Project preparations took any significant amount of time) of three and a half years ago as of the start of this turn, and undertaken in very different circumstances. (Besides being somewhat more than two years ago out of character, again taking the most favorable interpretation and measuring from the end of the expedition, not when they actually happened.)
 
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Personally I'm all for getting something out of the druchii, as long as we do keep in mind they're the enemy at the end of the day. Bit like the skaven.
We liked the furry little buggers and we did a little pact with one but if we could actively harm their empire we wouldn't (or shouldn't) think twice about it.
 
The Druchii are definitely evil (repugnantly so), but pucflek is right that that's not the main factor that we should be worried about for purposes of trading. What should worry us is that they're insidious dicks playing the long-game, and that we would need to verify how valuable their actual military intelligence or general knowledge would be before actually accepting it.

I'm all for obtaining information on how to prevent Druchii raids from Karond Kar or magical knowledge/books. Both of those are a plus in my book, the latter is possibly even a plus in our library. But we'd really need to nail down the cost. I would prefer that the Empire didn't establish long-term relations with Naggaroth.
 
Boney said:
And in either case it has a good chance of widening the rift between Ulthuan and the Empire, which is something they'd delight in all on its own. But what they're formally here for is the more prosaic forms of trade while we dance about the possibility of endorsing one candidate or the other. There's few Elven societies that wouldn't pay a premium for novel luxuries, of which we've developed many over the years, and the Druchii have an endless hunger for new kinds of beasts. We won't be shipping off any Unicorns or Great Stags, of course, but there's less salubrious inhabitants of the darker corners of Laurelorn, and Boris has said he'd be more than happy for our hunters to scour the Drakwald."
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So here's what Laurelorn is trading to the Druchii—beasts from the Drakwald and novel luxuries, whilst they dance around the idea of who should be the true Phoenix King—which, as far as the Eonir are concerned, is a meaningless title that they owe no loyalty to.

Now admittedly, Marisith doesn't seem like the canniest political operator out there, but at the same time she doesn't seem to worried by the whole thing.
 
Yeah, as far as establishing long-term relations goes, historically speaking trying to be a mitigating diplomatic force on a Naggaroth-like polity (or even straight up appease them so they don't go after you) by establishing relations with them has generally gone poorly. If the Empire were a small polity directly within Naggaroth's area of influence, then they might have to do so anyway because otherwise they'd just get steamrolled, and buying time is better than being invaded right now... But it isn't one, so we're not faced with that particular choice.
 
Parabola said:
The Druchii are definitely evil (repugnantly so), but pucflek is right that that's not the main factor that we should be worried about for purposes of trading. What should worry us is that they're insidious dicks playing the long-game, and that we would need to verify how valuable their actual military intelligence or general knowledge would be before actually accepting it.

I'm all for obtaining information on how to prevent Druchii raids from Karond Kar or magical knowledge/books. Both of those are a plus in my book, the latter is possibly even a plus in our library. But we'd really need to nail down the cost. I would prefer that the Empire didn't establish long-term relations with Naggaroth.
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I doubt we will sell them patrol routes of the second fleet. But telling them the the skate might still be in their civil war, or how to really disrupt an ork waaagh is not a general threat to the empire.
I would check our info but I wouldn't be as paranoid as some here. The druchii like to play the long game till they backstab each other or forget in the excess. Their not the absolute master planners they want us to think they are because then they would have won by now...
But that is just my opinion on the trade and the druchii. We are small fish too far away to bother with generally and with too many teeth to really try.
 
IF you want a pragmatic reason, do yoou think books from Druuchi is worth not getting Asur books? Because Asur making better offer is one option but other is getting blacklisted by them.
 
DragonParadox said:
A major part of their economy is maritime and based on fungible goods. I imagine that gets taxed. IRL feudal lords did that as well.
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Feudal lords taxed damn near everything at various points. That said, from memory trade goods weren't a huge part of their income. Instead, IIRC, ports would charge you for docking and there would be licenses to sell items and things like that, and then the king would tax those as income from the town or lord.
 
Tasoli said:
IF you want a pragmatic reason, do yoou think books from Druuchi is worth not getting Asur books? Because Asur making better offer is one option but other is getting blacklisted by them.
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They will change their tune real quick when we either go to nagarythe and kill druchii or start planting waystones all over the place.
We have many more "ins" with the high elves then with the druchii.
 
Mopman43 said:
I gotta be honest, if there's a Waaagh marching on Naggarond, I'm rooting for the Waaagh.

I'd sooner try to sell Druchii secrets to Naggarothi Greenskins.
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Same tbh.

I find Druuchi currently oddly compelling, mostly because Boney´s short introduction into the topic just did t he absolutely amazing thing of making them everyday racist kind of villain, with the only difference being that we actually know they have to be some flavour of bad beforehand.

Like you ever go through a day with your favorite coworker and you chat as usual and then topics steer and suddenly you find out they support armeni genocide and it suddenly flips your whole worldview because this person up till now has been completely normal, un-unhinged, actually really nice guy all around! And then this.

Captain Maktig i think felt a lot like this. A real stand up dude, right up until the moment where the order to reave your coast comes in.
 
Tasoli said:
IF you want a pragmatic reason, do yoou think books from Druuchi is worth not getting Asur books? Because Asur making better offer is one option but other is getting blacklisted by them.
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The Asur can't afford to blacklist us—the Empire is a major power, and if they do, all that will do is drive the Empire deeper into Naggaroth's embrace.

The High Elves need the Empire to, at the very least, be neutral, if not a full ally to Ulthuan.

They lack the military might to force the Empire to comply, so all that's left is carrots—and we can get bigger carrots out of them, if we wave the Druchii's carrots in their face.

Like obviously, in any bidding war between the high and dark elves, we're always going to pick the high elves—but I see no reason not to court the Druchii to get a better price for our loyalty to Ulthuan.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The Asur can't afford to blacklist us—the Empire is a major power, and if they do, all that will do is drive the Empire deeper into Naggaroth's embrace.

The High Elves need the Empire to, at the very least, be neutral, if not a full ally to Ulthuan.
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Why do they need the Empire? Like, sure blacklisting the Empire means they lose all ability to furtehr influence them, but like, they don't need the Empire for anything.
 
Boney said:
the Druchii have an endless hunger for new kinds of beasts. We won't be shipping off any Unicorns or Great Stags, of course, but there's less salubrious inhabitants of the darker corners of Laurelorn, and Boris has said he'd be more than happy for our hunters to scour the Drakwald.
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This might also serve as a counterpoint against accusations of betrayal by way of aiding an enemy of the Empire, considering an Elector Count is consenting to his forests being combed for beasts to weaponize. Mathilde could definitely point to it if people start making accusations, anyway.
 
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Speaking of queen Marrisith and ongoing Druuchi relations, we could try to get a better grasp on the political dynamics with a
[ ] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: specify who and how (Marrisith, druuchi trade negotiations).
Action
Also because I am deeply curious about her and she just hasn't gotten a lot of screen time
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Why do they need the Empire? Like, sure blacklisting the Empire means they lose all ability to furtehr influence them, but like, they don't need the Empire for anything.
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Presumably so that whatever chaos geopolitical entity that would replace it doesn´t take the largest chunk of network and doesn´t unplug it from "Keep-the-continent-afloatinator 9000".

I don´t foresee much issue tbh, Norscans have literal quarter in marienburg and Asur seem to tolerate it.
 
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mathymancer said:
I don't see why Marrisith should be any kind of authority on whether or not we should deal with the Druchii.
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What does authority have to do with anything I said? I was using the actual things Laurelorn is trading as examples of what the Druchii might ask of us as payment. And frankly, the only way we could outcompete Laurelorn in the realm of monsters is if we imported stuff from the World's Edge Mountains, and at that point we might as well as send them to the Imperial Zoo.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Why do they need the Empire? Like, sure blacklisting the Empire means they lose all ability to furtehr influence them, but like, they don't need the Empire for anything.
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pucflek said:
Presumably so that whatever chaos geopolitical entity that would replace it doesn´t take the largest chunk of network and doesn´t unplug it from "Keep-the-continent-afloatinator 9000"
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Yeah, that was pretty directly stated by the Queen.
Boney said:
then they can parlay that into countering Ulthuan's influence and interests in the Old World. If something goes wrong, then it creates problems that Ulthuan has to fix, because it's Ulthuan that's most directly dependent on the integrity of the Great Vortex.
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pucflek said:
Presumably so that whatever chaos geopolitical entity that would replace it doesn´t take the largest chunk of network and doesn´t unplug it from "Keep-the-continent-afloatinator 9000".

I don´t foresee much issue tbh, Norscans have literal quarter in marienburg and Asur seem to tolerate it.
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Right, but that's an argument for them not allowing the Empire to be destroyed. Which has nothing to do with blacklisting them. And evidently isn't their biggest priority, because when Asavar Kul gave it the old college try, they shrugged, said they had too many Druchii to fight and all but left the Empire to burn.
 
pucflek said:
Same tbh.
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I think two of you mean exactly opposite things because he is talking about letting orcs burning down Naggaroth while you have been talking trade with them.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The Asur can't afford to blacklist us—the Empire is a major power, and if they do, all that will do is drive the Empire deeper into Naggaroth's embrace.
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I meant Mathilde specifically.

They could blacklist her without blacklisting the entire Empire after all. And it would work as long as they don't push too much.

If she were to get blacklisted our library will lack in Asur books even if we get others to buy for us there will be problems.
 
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deathofrats0808 said:
Why do they need the Empire? Like, sure blacklisting the Empire means they lose all ability to furtehr influence them, but like, they don't need the Empire for anything.
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WAYSTONES.

If the Empire becomes formal allies with Naggaroth, then Malekith will send "Magical Advisors" to the Empire, and help us redirect the waystones away from powering the Vortex and towards our own needs.

We already know the network doesn't need to be plugged into the vortex for it to work—we just need some way of using the magic, like the Dwarf or Kislev networks do.

Tasoli said:
I meant Mathilde specifically.

They could blacklist her without blacklisting the entire Empire after all. And it would work as long as they don't push too much.

If she were to get blacklisted our library will lack in Asur books even if we get others to buy for us there will be problems.
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Can they do that without starting War of the Beard 2?
 
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