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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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As I see it what we're willing to trade will be based on what they have to offer.

The only thing we've really seen that seems to be somewhat concrete is the offer of selling out their rivals by providing information on their location in exchange for the Empire acting as deniable pirates and destroying them.

We get information, they get a damaged rival and customers if the Empire decides to act on it. That seems like a win-win to me (well not for Karond Kar, but screw them) so I'd take that deal since it's basically pure profit for us.

Boney said:
"That said, a better understanding between our people might result in all sorts of information flowing back and forth. Clar Karond and Karond Kar are bitter rivals, and Clar Karond would profit if Karond Kar needed to come to them to replace ships lost by a chance encounter with that navy of yours. A few such opportune encounters and they would learn to seek softer shores."
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WorldSlayer said:
As I see it what we're willing to trade will be based on what they have to offer.

The only thing we've really seen that seems to be somewhat concrete is the offer of selling out their rivals by providing information on their location in exchange for the Empire acting as deniable pirates and destroying them.

We get information, they get a damaged rival and customers if the Empire decides to act on it. That seems like a win-win to me (well not for Karond Kar, but screw them) so I'd take that deal since it's basically pure profit for us.
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That might be the case, but in that case Mathilde doesn't seem like the person for them to talk to. We don't even know any navy people to introduce them to.
 
Does warhammer have long range communication magic at all? Aside from alkadude's mist projection spell I guess. I suppose the celestials have the message in the stars spell.
 
Bear in mind that Mathilde has an inexhaustible horse that can maintain its top speed for the entire journey and a gyrocopter. If she deems it important/time-sensitive enough, she is quite literally probably the fastest way for someone standing in front of her to get that information to anyone.
 
Dreadlord Ylrishen: Lady Weber, here is urgent and actionable military information.
Five hours later-
Mathilde: Lord Algard, here is urgent and actionable military information.
30 minutes later-
Algard: Your majesty, here is urgent and actionable military information.
Leopold: Here are sealed orders for the second fleet, give it to your fastest courier.
Five hours later-
Mathilde: Second Fleet, I have sealed orders from the Emperor.
Two days later-
Second Fleet: we're in the middle of the ocean, where are the Druchii?
Mathilde: oh, they are still two weeks away, I think the Dreadlord underestimated how quickly we could mobilise.
 
The line of thinking entire thread has regarding the Druchi seems to be very..overconfident? Like the druchi are founded upon a society that lives and breathes back stabbing. The idea that Mathilde could get credible, Important military information, without at least having to sacrifce some big things in return seems like a very hard goal?
Mathilde rocking up to the local Druchi with just some gold, and getting away with military information seems dubious to me. Druchi may think humanity is children running around, but they wouldn't be one of the premier raiding powers if they didn't at very least take some measure of seriousness.
 
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Sa'kage said:
The line of thinking entire thread has regarding the Druchi seems to be very..overconfident? Like the druchi are founded upon a society that lives and breathes back stabbing. The idea that Mathilde could get credible, Important military information, without at least having to sacrifce some big things in return seems like a very hard goal?
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In truth yes it probably will not be important information but largely on the basis of "anything the druchii are raiding was probably already raided by nosrcans" more than anything else. Remember the actual deal proposed in this case is "you will pay me for the priveledge of getting to screw over my rivals, who will then pay my faction for the privilege of new boats as well. Also hopefully taking this deal at all will disincline you further away from the Asur, which we the druchii also would like."

The idea that this specific deal would not require much of a big sacrifice really is not a particularly hard goal at all and if somehow it does, we can simply not take the deal and are no worse off for having tried.
 
Boney said:
It's possible, but it's not something you pick up at the shops, it's something that arises from spending years of your life immersed in it.
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So the Staff of Mistery is actually more about shoring up conceptual weaknesses in her paradigm than a result and enhancement of it.
deathofrats0808 said:
THe Great North Road is apparently decently dangerous, which would indicate to me it's not in the best of conditions.
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I somehow kept reading this as "THe Great Horned Rat" and was confusedly trying to parse what you're saying.
DragonParadox said:
Given they came from the east, which is to say over the World's Edge mountains they would likely recognize it for what it was. Hell even before the migration they wold have known what roads were from the Dark Lands... though granted back then they would avoid them or use them only at great need since that is where the dawi xhar slavers came from. I imagine their first time meeting an untainted dwarf would have been... fought, especially since they would have made the obvious comparison. Going from that to being taught how to forge metal would have been a hell of an act of diplomacy and one which will now remain unsung, overshadowed by Sigmar later
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Well, there were Humans im the area before those tribes and during the migration they would have mingled and probably learned that not all Dwarves are of the same culture at the very least.
DragonParadox said:
Actually you know what? List time

So you want to trade with assholes? What can you give them
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I remember informally listing a couple of things. What came to my mind was animals, plants, history, lore, art and fiction sourced away from the shorelines.

As for Skaven tech, remember that the Druchii might be able to replicate technology that the Empire couldn't, either due to legal bans on Dhar use or due to missing resources like rubber tnat the Druchii might have access to.
fictionfan said:
After that much telephone the information is likely to be a bit old and disjointed.
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It's called writing things down. This is an empire, not a kindergarden.
 
Rafin said:
So the Staff of Mistery is actually more about shoring up conceptual weaknesses in her paradigm than a result and enhancement of it.

I somehow kept reading this as "THe Great Horned Rat" and was confusedly trying to parse what you're saying.

Well, there were Humans im the area before those tribes and during the migration they would have mingled and probably learned that not all Dwarves are of the same culture at the very least.

I remember informally listing a couple of things. What came to my mind was animals, plants, history, lore, art and fiction sourced away from the shorelines.

As for Skaven tech, remember that the Druchii might be able to replicate technology that the Empire couldn't, either due to legal bans on Dhar use or due to missing resources like rubber tnat the Druchii might have access to.

It's called writing things down. This is an empire, not a kindergarden.
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I would hesitate to sell historical information since that can be used to form a better image of how to manipulate someone politically. Just as a general idea if we give them imperial books on the empire they will probably have a better idea how to manipulate internal divisions to get what they want. On the other hand if they want our dwarf books on entomology I would be fine with it.
 
fictionfan said:
After that much telephone the information is likely to be a bit old and disjointed.
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We can just talk to Luitpold directly then. Mathilde has already met him on multiple occasions and can get a further 'boost' from Heidi.

The problem isn't on our part - the problem is making the Druchii cooperate because they're masters of backstabbing and some of them have forgotten more intrigue than Mathilde knows. Admittedly she's unlikely to get attention from the very top but whoever she's going to talk to won't be a moron.
 
Found my previous opinions on the issue.

Rafin said:
I'll be honest: I am pretty much in favor of any trade that provides the Druchii with one time luxuries and novelty in exchange for knowledge or information that has a decent chance to save lives. Anything that isn't empowering tools or logistics improving resources is not going to make the Druchii worse than they already are.

Examples:
  • Spices
  • Pigments
  • Rare animals, live or otherwise
  • Non-military history
  • Fiction
  • Art
  • Description of neat geographical landmarks
I would even add Qretch's book(s?) on top of that, even though that definitely has military value. Because a) the Chorfs are just as bad and any losses the two inflict on each other are essentially net zero and b) the two are not natural enemies, so there's no power balance that could be toppled, leading to one conquering the other's resources and becoming massively more powerful.
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It seems like old me had reasons not to want to give them Waaaghbane. Don't know if I still agree with old me on that, but I can see the logic.

That said, what is the Orc presence on the Western continent like? Are there any worth noting? Because if the main places that Druchii encounter Orcs is by mistake while raiding then them having Waaaghbane is fine.

In the end Druuchi are people with an evil government and an evil culture. Orcs are as of yet biologically incompatible with most other sentient species. Trades that harm Orcs and benefit Druuchi might be acceptable. Might, because on the other hand Malekith threatens the Vortex more directly than all but maybe one Waaagh in history.
DragonParadox said:
I would hesitate to sell historical information since that can be used to form a better image of how to manipulate someone politically. Just as a general idea if we give them imperial books on the empire they will probably have a better idea how to manipulate internal divisions to get what they want. On the other hand if they want our dwarf books on entomology I would be fine with it.
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I see your point. I'd say that they could get them anyway by pretending to be a different kind of Elf, but that also means that they are worth less to them. And maybe they haven't done that and seeing these books gives them ideas for low hanging fruits that they hadn't thought about. Still, certain types of history books might be worth certain types of actionable knowledge.
 
So we get unreliable information from the Druchii that we aren't able to judge and pass it onto a bunch other people who are also going to doubt it's reliable.
 
fictionfan said:
So we get unreliable information from the Druchii that we aren't able to judge and pass it onto a bunch other people who are also going to doubt it's reliable.
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Worst case scenario we lose what we paid them with no return, once. Seems worth the potentially saved lives to me.

Edit: Worst case scenario it's a distraction or an ambush I guess. But the Empire military is aware of that too.
 
Rafin said:
I see your point. I'd say that they could get them anyway by pretending to be a different kind of Elf, but that also means that they are worth less to them. And maybe they haven't done that and seeing these books gives them ideas for low hanging fruits that they hadn't thought about. Still, certain types of history books might be worth certain types of actionable knowledge.
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They probably could, but imagine the effort it would take a Druchi to pretend to be Asur or Asrai, including a different language, different mannerisms, maybe even building up a history. Now imagine using all that effort to get the obscure book on Hoechaland they deed to finish their History of the Empire (Imperial) obscure collection. That is a lot of work for what is marginal gain. On the other hand getting the full +5 from Mathilde would be efficient.
 
I honestly don't know what the worst case scenario when dealing with Druchii is.
These re people who can afford to spend decades on plots, and getting their mittens in Empire, no matter how distantly, could have consequences we are unable to really predict.

Luxury goods might be safe(ish) to give, but then what i worry about most is giving druchii a change to get their foot on the door, because i seriously doubt we would be the last contact they seek to make, and any furher contact would be legitimized by our previous involvement.
honestly i'd rather trade with Skaven, because at least with them i would be confident that our trading partner would probably die before having a change to do any long term damage.
 
I don't think short term military info is worth it.

Selling Waaghbane and anti-Skaven stuff in return for either equivalent knowledge - particularly magical knowledge (if we can reasonably vet it) - or just raw resources is fine in my mind; the moment we start overly complicating things we open up the possibility to get screwed over massively.
 
As already pointed out, the anti skaven stuff can largely be turned into anti empire stuff.
Waaghbane, not sure, making it easier for druchii to fight orks means they now have more military resources to spend fighting everyone else.
Which is not a good thing.
 
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