Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
I'm inordinately pleased that Vlag is economically benefitting from the sudden trade agreements with the Eonir. If the people who have been under siege for generations, those who have every reason to mistrust strangers, trade with the Elgi? Then who are the rest of the Karaz Ankor to shy away from such?
- Location
- France
Mathilde: I am under a Vow of Poverty
Also Mathilde: I am now going to funnel Belegar's money directly into the EIC
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Heartbreaking: the worst Barony you know just made a great point.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Assuming I've not misplaced any names, that's a pretty high level of pettiness from Thorek. Borek went slayer, sure, but denying him credit here seems like a step beyond that.
Saying that, it's trickling back that Thorek put himself out a bit to castigate people for slandering Dum, so he's probably super pissed that they roughly lived down to expectations. Including Borek. Still petty, but I won't begrudge him that one.
Last edited:
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
It would be them making that point, too- beyond the old rivalries with the Teutogen, Sudfast Temple that was mentioned is possibly the only all-female temple to Ulric in the Empire. They're known to be the main source of female priestesses, strong-minded ones too, who are generally viewed as 'troublemakers' by the Teutogen Ulricans.
(Nordland is also the main center of Rhya-without-Taal worship)
Gotrek died, that makes him a martyr.
Last edited:
- Location
- Utrecht
I think that's standard practice for when someone becomes a Slayer.
Don't mention their name too much, people will remember them and that they went slayer, and get sad.
Not really, Dum was only in the position to damn themselves because they got no help. A human would go for the obvious self-justification of 'they were heretics to begin with', but not a dwarf, specifically not a dwarf with the paper we gave him that is slanted to his political point. That is what we paid for his aid with.
- Location
- India
- Pronouns
- He/His
"Hello, am I speaking to the Inquisition? Yes, I will hold... Hello, yes Lord Inquisitor, Sir, I found the Slaneeshi. How? Well, he couldnt resist exulting his god at the slightest opportunity. Gets them every time."
P.S. this is a joke.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
hmm it wouldn't make the ar-ulric or nordland nobility happy with us but if we could somehow pry the schisming ulricans away from nordland revanchism and towards focusing more on their legitiment beefs with the central temple this could become an unalloyed good for everyone, including the cult itself.
Praising with faint damns is great, I'm going to steal that one for my personal use.
In order: crafting house, trading house, Isha house which we believe to be queen loyalists.
Once that would've been Borek's expedition, but I suppose there is no Borek any more. I'm glad that even the conservative Thorek is giving the claneless engineer his due, and he absolutely deserves it - Gotrek made the expedition possible and died in its service.
Damnably clever of him. I think there's no easy way for Mathilde to help on this front, and for now she should keep doing what she's been doing and forge more connections between Eonir and Empire through trade.
xamaplak
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE @SOUP?
- Location
- the Soup Store
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So uh, I'm all in favor of devoting at least 1 AP to Nordland damage control, whether that's talking with people or beating up troublesome beastmen near Salzenmund. Ffs the worst part is that they're not wrong.
Last edited:
Well, I think that Shadow Bridge idea has just went up in priority. Establishing better trade between Middenland and Eonir will give the Count additional reasons to hold to the alliance, while strengthening the dwarf-Eonir trade would put a bit of a stumbling block into sigmarite attacks on the alliance.
The most troubling part of the new Nordlander Ulric cult is if it rejects the Eonir as legitimate worshippers of Ulric. That sort of thing gets nasty enough when it's between humans living in the same nation, let alone when that religious connection is the main thing binding two separate nations together.
- Location
- Earth
The EIC has no or not much of a presence in Nordland, so it wouldn't help much.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I have the feeling in the back of my head that some people we talking about buying runes? But that may just have been me looking back at our guns and realising that we missed the opportunity to get moar kickflip by spending AV when we got them done up. :/.
There's been a lot of back and and a few useful effortposts on the matter of what to next get for the library and why for the previous turn, and I'm willing to pay up to three cute animal pics for those being posted.
Specific cute animal is up for negotiation.
There's been a lot of back and and a few useful effortposts on the matter of what to next get for the library and why for the previous turn, and I'm willing to pay up to three cute animal pics for those being posted.
Specific cute animal is up for negotiation.
How? Mathilde doesn't particularly like Ulric, doesn't know much about Ulrican politics, the only Ulricans she does get along with schisemed from the Ar-Ulric so that's not going to help her argue against more schisms, we have no contacts or EIC presence in Nordland, and Mathilde isn't great at intra-Empire diplomacy in general.
If a beastherd starts terrorizing Nordland, then I could see us using Mathilde's patented murder-diplomacy. Until then, let's keep doing good work where we actually can make a difference.
Since we have continously failed to take the Middenland social actions we actually have no idea how elf worship of Ulric looks like. For all we know they really are illegitimate worshippers of Ulric by orthodox human reckoning. Ideally, the fact that the schism is in part about the unfair exclusion of women from the worship of Ulric would mean that they wouldn't be quick to exclude another population, but politics being what they are I doubt that this is how it's going to go.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Well,
Now, people being consistent is to never be assumed, but hopefully the above bit would make a bit more likely for Elven worship of Ulric to be acceptable to this new movement despite 'Elves worshipping Ulric' being both new, and associated with the current Al-Ulric.
I've forgotten most of the internal politics of the Empire, so please tell me if this framing depends on something that is in error; but if stronger Elven connections were to be seen by this Nordlander new sub-cult as a 'fuck you' to those Middenhiem wankers, then we might be very lucky and it won't be used as another thing to fight about.
Last edited:
I mean if a bunch of Ulrican fanatics want to charge into the forest to kill the pointy eared heretics they are entirely welcome to do so, the forest could use a bit more fertilizer. It would take several imperial provinces with their actual state troops and support to match the Eoor, nevermind the Eonir with Middleheimer support.
- Location
- South Africa
So long as Nordland doesn't re-ignite hostilities with the Eonir (and there statement re. not just limited to men, indicates that this is unlikely) I don't think we should oppose this, and don't see a reason to do so. For while our Eonir allies have been wronged by Nordland: they have already achieved restitution for the most part. They have reclaimed their forest and are regrowing it, and have kicked out several thousand Nordlanders.
But on the other hand, the Grand Baron, a ruler of the Empire and thus also an ally, has been invaded for reasons out of his control and he has lost multiple longstanding (i.e. multi-generational) villages. I don't think we should lick salt into his wounds and should just act neutrally.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thanks for the update @Boney. The discussion is already dominating all the points I wanted to mention, but that won't stop me from reacting to the update.
"The van de Kuypers family head is Jaan van de Kuypers, 57 years old. Reputedly the richest man in the world, he became the head of the family when his elder brother, Bertold, went insane and slaughtered their parents and sister. He counts among his personal friends the Tsar of Kislev, the King of Bretonnia, the Sultan of Araby and even Emperor Karl Franz and the Electors. All of them owe him money. He is the true leader of the Directorate: through his web of clients and contacts, he commands a block of eight votes. Allied to House van de Kuypers are Houses van Raemerswijk, van Scheldt, den Euwe and Rothemuur. Among the permanent seats, the High Priests of Haendryk and Verena appreciate his pious gifts to the cults, while the Rector of Baron Henryk's is his cousin. Jaan van de Kuypers has never lost a vote on the Directorate, and some fear he plans to make all the Directors his puppets."
In canon, Fooger tries to contest this bloc with his own alliance, but they are inferior in scope, mostly consisting of people who have issues with Jaan. I don't know if he is currently the leader, but he is in his 20's, so I imagine he's involved. He's pretty dangerous.
There is no open land between the two cities. It's all Forest of Shadows or Middle Mountains or hills. Hell, there are no rivers that would make the trip easier. Any caravan moving from those two locations would be susceptible to countless attacks by Beastmen, bandits, Goblins or any other sort of gribbly or outlaw. Even heavily armed Dwarven escorts would find the trip somewhat daunting with such a heavy haul.
Conclusion: Trade would be a difficult endeavour. Rite of Way seems more and more like an attractive prospect at this point.
We saw the Dwarven respect for the dead, especially the honorable dead, in Karak Eight Peaks. The Hall of Oaths is a testament to Grimnir's Oathkeeping nature, rather than his Slayer side. The respect offered to Oaths is also an integral part of Dwarven thinking, which is a part that Belegar emphasised greatly in his speech all those years ago, as a couterpoint to Grudges. Gotrek made an Oath to ensure the expedition would be successful, and while he didn't live to see it succeed, his death no more lessens his Oath than if he had lived. The Hall of Oaths, which records all those that died reclaiming Karak Eight Peaks, is a testament to that part of the Dwarven psyche.
All of this to say, I think this is less of a disrespect to Borek, and more of an honor to Gotrek.
We could settle with the current precarious situation, but when were we satisfied with dealing only with what we have?
Also, laziness is pervading my usual scholarly work. Apologies, but I can't muster the energy and time needed to keep up with my past self. Most of my sources are literally old posts that I made or wiki articles, which are unreliable at the best of times. But hey, there are new loremasters contributing to this thread by the day, so the shoes I left behind are more than filled.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go to the bathroom. DL update delayed my bodily needs, and I got so invested I needed to finish this post before I could leave.
I forgot to mention this in the previous update, but Kuyper is the dominating family of Marienburg, who have influence over the majority of the votes in the Marienburg council. To quote the character description of their leader, which is kind of scary:
"The van de Kuypers family head is Jaan van de Kuypers, 57 years old. Reputedly the richest man in the world, he became the head of the family when his elder brother, Bertold, went insane and slaughtered their parents and sister. He counts among his personal friends the Tsar of Kislev, the King of Bretonnia, the Sultan of Araby and even Emperor Karl Franz and the Electors. All of them owe him money. He is the true leader of the Directorate: through his web of clients and contacts, he commands a block of eight votes. Allied to House van de Kuypers are Houses van Raemerswijk, van Scheldt, den Euwe and Rothemuur. Among the permanent seats, the High Priests of Haendryk and Verena appreciate his pious gifts to the cults, while the Rector of Baron Henryk's is his cousin. Jaan van de Kuypers has never lost a vote on the Directorate, and some fear he plans to make all the Directors his puppets."
In canon, Fooger tries to contest this bloc with his own alliance, but they are inferior in scope, mostly consisting of people who have issues with Jaan. I don't know if he is currently the leader, but he is in his 20's, so I imagine he's involved. He's pretty dangerous.
Maybe I'm just not good at metaphors, or the mining terminology is confusing me, but I do not understand what Thorek just said. I assume "Easy to tunnel through" means they are easy to convince or work with, but I don't get what he means by tunneling back. Please explain it to me like I'm 5.
I've long since forgotten the details, but thanks to my past self, who was a far more obsessed woman, she got me covered:
Vaul, Mathlann and Isha Houses.
I'm actually genuinely surprised Thorek is willing to trade Runic goods. That stuff isn't just regular goods, that stuff possesses religous meaning to the Dwarves. It's luxury goods, so it doesn't help the Elves in any meaningful way from a military perspective. Still, either Thorek is a lot more mercantile than I expected, or he percieves the reward to be worth the cost of Dwarven pride. Dwarves are so stringent about their Runes that they refuse to mass produce them after all.
Barak Varr to Tor Lithanel would require a roundabout trip from the Border Princes' Black Gulf, across the Estalian coast, over the Bretonnian Coast, then into the Sea of Claws. It's a long and arduous trip with a lot of stops along the way, even for Dwarven steamships. The cost would be ruinous, especially if any pirates got the idea to attack. Wolfenburg to Salkalten... I mean, take a look:
Conclusion: Trade would be a difficult endeavour. Rite of Way seems more and more like an attractive prospect at this point.
Somebody already mentioned the distinction here, but rather than disrespect to Borek, I interpret this as respect to Gotrek. Yes, Borek dishonored himself and no amount of Slayering is going to cause Thorek to reconsider that. But, as a matter of fact, Gotrek was essential to the expedition. He was the primary engineer who worked on the Steam Wagons, which made the trip possible in the way that it operated in the first place. Without him, there would be no expedition in the way that it happened, and his death makes him a martyr, imprinting his influence on the operation permanently.
We saw the Dwarven respect for the dead, especially the honorable dead, in Karak Eight Peaks. The Hall of Oaths is a testament to Grimnir's Oathkeeping nature, rather than his Slayer side. The respect offered to Oaths is also an integral part of Dwarven thinking, which is a part that Belegar emphasised greatly in his speech all those years ago, as a couterpoint to Grudges. Gotrek made an Oath to ensure the expedition would be successful, and while he didn't live to see it succeed, his death no more lessens his Oath than if he had lived. The Hall of Oaths, which records all those that died reclaiming Karak Eight Peaks, is a testament to that part of the Dwarven psyche.
All of this to say, I think this is less of a disrespect to Borek, and more of an honor to Gotrek.
Thorek already mentioned what House Teleri stands for, but because I already have my post opened up:
Note that this Mathlann house was based on Ellyrion, an inland kingdom famed for its worship of Kurnous and its wide open, endlessly shifting plains and the horses that graze on it. They were never going to be a big name back in their homeland, but the nature of their location and the separation from the open sea thanks to the Annuli mountains. This probably means that they built their ships to navigate the Sea of Dusk and Sea of Dreams, otherwise known as the Inner Seas to the Elves. This probably means that their position was less prestigous and them moving on from being a boatwrights and boatbuilders was, yes, because of convenience, but also it makes sense why they aren't as excited to get back into it as Thorek would like them to be. Elves respect tradition and their ancestors, but not so much that they would let it overwrite their sensibilities, such as the pride they take in their work. If they don't feel satisfied with their job, they're not going to keep doing it because their ancestors used to do it.
I don't get tired of Thorek interactions. It's so interesting to see such a politically savvy Dwarf. He's not so much atraditional as he is practical, and it's really neat to see him work his trade in a way that combines runecraft with modern sensibilities. Kragg may not respect him as much because he splits his attention from runesmithing to do all this maneuvering, but this particular situation makes him much more valuable to our continued success with the project.
I assume that this is primarily because Boney wants to make sure that Mathilde is neutral on this topic so as to keep it open to votes in the future, because he knows that making Mathilde pro-Thorek in this endeavour would encourage votes in the future to keep politicking, and Boney doesn't like to tamper with voter choice that much. However, I personally believe that it is very much a good use of our time to ensure the political situation is stable and in our favor. This is one of the stated goals of working with the Eonir which we proposed to our higher ups, and while restoring the Waystones is a much loftier goal, improving the political situation through this project is one of the more achievable and attainable goals that would improve the internal balance of the Empire. Especially since it's in our best interests as a Grey Wizard and a citizen of the Empire.
We could settle with the current precarious situation, but when were we satisfied with dealing only with what we have?
I remember these tensions. There's a whole lot of talk about this in various 2E sources including Heirs of Sigmar (Nordland section) and the Cult of Ulric section in Tome of Salvation, for those who are up for source delving. I'm on a new laptop and my old one is whirring with very worrying noises, so I can't exactly check my sources without a lot of work on my part.
Also, laziness is pervading my usual scholarly work. Apologies, but I can't muster the energy and time needed to keep up with my past self. Most of my sources are literally old posts that I made or wiki articles, which are unreliable at the best of times. But hey, there are new loremasters contributing to this thread by the day, so the shoes I left behind are more than filled.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go to the bathroom. DL update delayed my bodily needs, and I got so invested I needed to finish this post before I could leave.
It's very good. One problem: It doesn't have enough semi-random DRAMATIC CAPITALIZATION. Excellent otherwise