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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
"He's a mediocre administrator but, for all his faults, he is still an extremely potent Wizard with keen insight, and extremely good at burnishing any deed into a legend.
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Hmm i was worried Alric would turn up on our doorstep wanting in on the Waystone project, offering to 'manage' parties involved while freeing up Mathilde for travel and research but with the loss to Light's connections and the stonewalling by other Orders meant he's can't deploy those assets against Mathilde and her project if we say no.

Though he might join anyway if the project see signs of success since the prestige and connection from the success of the project would be enough for him to regain power and can we really say no considering the usefulness of his vast experience and power and he turns up with bribes like hidden information and materials used for Waystone function from all the travelling he done?
He always know where Egrimm is and the poor guy might be convinced to let him inside the door!

Doubt Alric going to become a black magister considering his long history against that kind of corruption which ruin his hold on power back then.
 
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Codex said:
Alric's so pathetic. I don't care much about him personally, but the desperation and ridiculous tenacity that he has at this point is far past the point of admirable and just loops around to pitiful. The fact that he might be successful only irritates me. He really needs to get a reality check and stop clinging to his position.

It's genuinely amazing how the one man's ambitions is making all this fuss. The Empire already has its fair share of problems and he's only adding to it by reducing the effectiveness of the Order.
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Seems like pretty standard politician stuff to me.

It's the downside of the Patriarch positions being meritocratic and electable; candidates have to spend time campaigning rather than getting on with the business of ruling.
Artemis1992 said:
No, that was Sunscryer.
Hexensohn went into some underground-area and died out of sight.
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I do think he was also the victim of a Nat 1, though.
 
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Alric seems to be intent on ticking every single box for the old has-been in that he's doing his darndest to prove that he's still useful and that they still need him.
 
Really glad we were there for Thorek's arrival. It wouldn't have been a disaster without us, but it would have been very awkward and lots of people could have left the room feeling insulted.

I wonder what's happening in Talabecland? They've been pretty stable and peaceful for the entire quest, so why do they need the intervention of a patriarch in some sort of internal matter? Something that's potentially going to earn Alric a lot of prestige. Mathilde proposes that it might be to do with the vampire trade network, but that's been dismantled, and he's working with the nobility on something.

Hopefully he can keep himself busy until after we have secured the Light order's assistance.
 
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Governance of Laurelorn
  • Media
    • Governance of Laurelorn:

    House Elwyn (Dead): Caledor Asuryan isolationist. Former Wardens of Frost. Lindalioc was the last Vicarius they had. Used to rule Kor Immamor, capital of the Ward of Frost.

    House Malforric: Avelornian Asuryan Isolationist. Wardens of the Sun. Lady Delynna is their Vicarius. They dominate the worship of Asuryan and therefore control the festival that determines the Champion.

    House Fanpatar: Yvressian Ladrielle worshippers. Wardens of Rain. In favor of contact after Boris proved himself to them. Galenstra is their Vicarius. Despite being in charge of the Ward of Rain, due to concerns about their position from political rivals, House Fanpatar only maintains a garrison in the Ward and their true home is in the City. Noble Houses cannot afford to have their position be questioned.

    House Tindomiel: Sapherian Hekarti worshippers. Magic House, in favor of contact with the outside world and don't look down on humans. Unlike the Druchii, the Eonir don't look very positively on the use of Dark Magic and maintain a more balanced view on the worship of Hekarti, and they do not recommend appeasing both Hekarti and Atharti like the Sorceresses of Ghrond.

    House Thyriolan: Sapherian Hoeth isolationists. Magic house, care about waystones but against human contact.

    House Echtelion: Sapherian Hoeth isolationists. Less against human involvement than Thyriolan but look down on humans unlike Thyriolan.

    House Ellemakil: Avelornian Ulrican worshippers. Most in favor of Ulric and involvement with Middenland.

    House Maeglin: Tiranocan Atharti worshippers. Used to have a pleasure house by the name of "Ladroi Nastir". In favor of outside contact.

    House Miriel: Nagarythian Vaul isolationists, house focus on artisanry and crafting. Interested in Dwarven artisanry. Hold dominance over the secrets of communication with the Priests of Vaul working to craft things under the Rainbow Falls, and as they are blind and deaf, this gives them a monopoly over their creations that solidifies their position. The House is led by Councillor Galrith.

    House Mardil: Trading house. Open to human/dwarf contact for trading purposes. Cothiquan Mathlann worshippers.

    House Filuan: Avelornian Isha worshippers. Possible Queen loyalists. In favor of outside contact.

    House Quendalmanliye: Eatainan Mathlann worshippers in favor of outside contact.

    House Teleri: Ellyrion Mathlann worshippers in favor of outside contact. Former Boatwrights and boatbuilders.

    House Orodreth: Nagarythian Lileath worshippers in favor of outside contact.

    House Nienna: Cothiquan Morai-Heg worshippers in favor of outside contact.

    House Apacanwa: Chrace Kurnous Isolationists.

    House Sumier: Avelornian Isha Isolationists.

    House Orome: Yvresse Drakira Isolationists.

    House Reveniol: Ellyrion Eldrazor Isolationists.

    House Orophin: Chrace Elinill Isolationists.

    House Vaire: Avelornian Hekarti Isolationists.

    House Yavanna: Avelornian Isha Isolationists.

    Ward of Sun: Contains Tor Lithanel. Warden is Delynna of House Malforric.

    Ward of Frost: Contains the ruins of Kor Immamor. Warden is a council of Forestborn and Forest spirits, including Vicerine Cadaeth of Oldenlitz. This state of affairs has occurred ever since the death of Lindalioc of House Elwynn and his relatives. This Ward holds a stronger connection between spirits and elves, as opposed to other sections of Laurelorn that maintain a divide. This has led to rumors of intermingling between spirits and elves, leading to the possibility of some sort of combination similarly to the Tree Kin of Athel Loren.

    Ward of Storm: Contains the Tower of Se-Athil. Warden is the Forestborn Stormwitch Kaia, who desires friendly contact with the Empire, Norsca and the Druchii.

    Ward of Rain: Contains the Pass of Stone and the Schadensumpf. Warden is Prince Galenstra of House Fanpatar. The Ward of Rain holds a positive relation with the village of Kammendun near the Schadensumpf, as the villagers warn the Elves and leave offerings and erected shrines to the elves, and the elves reward them with "the occasional trinket from the city", which is undeniably a big deal to the humans.

    Triumvirate:
    Queen Marrisith: Matrilineal descent from Queen Maruviel of Avelorn, daughter of Morelion, first son of Aenarion and cousin to Yvraine, the Everqueen after Astraielle. Marrisith is the fourth queen of Laurelorn. Aligned with human contact.

    Champion: The Champion is decided every four years in the Fesitval of Games held in honor to Asuryan by the Temple of Asuryan (aka House Malforric now that they dominate Asuryan worship). Current Champion is Kadoh, aligned with Marrisith's interest.

    Vicarius Triumvir: This position swaps every year between each of the four Wardens, known as the Vicarii.

    Arbiter Yadoh: Acts as an authority who maintains order and represents the Triumvirate when they're not present for Council meetings.

    Then there's the Cityborn/Forestborn divide, the existence of the advisory body of the Senate (not limited by House but strictly advisory), and the status of the Grey Lords/Forest spirits in this paradigm. There are 12 Grey Lords but they serve an essential role in the continued existence of the polity, and the Forestborn are the ones who provide the raw material to Tor Lithanel so it can actually turn to finished product, so they're equally essential to the society albeit heavily underrepresented in the political structure.

    House Fanpatar and House Malforric hold either two votes in the council or a vote and a tiebreaker. House Malforric have the ability to rig the Festival of Games to assign their desired champion for another tiebreaker. The Major Houses dominate the worship of particular gods, and the most prominent gods in Laurelorn according to Boney are:

    Patron Gods of Laurelorn: Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti. The most prominent Gods of Laurelorn. In terms of the Mandela, Isha is in the middle, Asuryan, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti, Atharti, Morai-Heg and Mathlann are in the inner ring. All the remaining gods are in the outer, and both Ereth Khial and Nethu are being considered for removal.

    House Malforric dominate Asuryan. It has been stated by Boney that there isn't much benefit to be had from attempting to control Isha worship because the Queen effectively dominates it, but House Filuan are also Ishaites and they might support the Queen in her efforts. Despite this, worship of Isha is shared by three Major Houses: Filuan, Yavanna and Sumier, of which only Filuan is not isolationist. Houses Mardil, Quendalmanliye and Teleri share dominance over Mathlann worship. House Miriel dominate worship of Vaul thanks to their control over the priesthood and their secrets of communication. Houses Tindomiel and Vaire share dominance over the worship of Hekarti. House Echtelion and Thyriolan share dominance over worship of Hoeth. House Maeglin dominates Atharti worship and Nienna Morai-Heg.

    According to Boney, there is discussion of replacing Ereth Khial and Nethu in the Pantheonic Mandela of Laurelorn to make space for Ulric and one other god. This is possible because there is no significant presence of worship for the two gods, because no Major Houses cover them.

    Loec has shrines, but no organised hierarchy. Hukon, Estreuth, Addaioth, Anath Raema and Khaine are all not covered by any of the Major Houses.

    Here's a table as a visual aid:
    NameOriginGodPositionPurposeNotes
    TindomielSapheryHekartiInternationalistMagic HouseMost enthusiastic about Waystone Project
    MardilCothiqueMathlannInternationalistTradersInterested in Dwarf craft.
    FiluanAvelornIshaInternationalist???Possible Queen loyalists.
    FanpatarYvresseLadrielleInternationalistWard of RainIn charge of swamps, practical. Connection to Middenland. Two votes
    MaeglinTiranocAthartiInternationalistPleasure?They used to have a house of pleasure named Ladroi Nastir.
    QuendalmanliyeEataineMathlannInternationalist???
    TeleriEllyrionMathlannInternationalistBoatwrights
    NiennaCothiqueMorai-HegInternationalist???
    EllemakilAvelornUlricInternationalist???Most enthusiastic about Ulric. Convinced by the Queen to vote for outside involvement.
    OrodrethNagarytheLileathInternationalist???
    Ward of RainLaurelornLadrielleInternationalistDefenceSwamp cultivated to repel invaders. Ruled by House Fanpatar.
    Ward of FrostLaurelorn???InternationalistDefenceRuled by a council of Forestborn and Forest spirits. The two groups are very intertwined. Holds Lornalim and valuable natural resources.
    Ward of StormsLaurelorn???InternationalistDefenceRuled by Kaia Stormwitch, a Forestborn. Takes the brunt of Norscan and Druchii assault and borders the Wasteland.
    ElwynCaledorAsuryanIsolationistWard of FrostDead with Vicarius Lindalioc and his family in the Battle of the Schadensumpf. Used to rule Kor Immamor. Previously vied for control over Asuryan's worship against Malforric.
    VaireAvelornHekartiIsolationist???One of two houses dominating Hekarti worship
    ApacanwaChraceKurnousIsolationist???
    SumierAvelornIshaIsolationist???
    OromeYvresseDrakiraIsolationist???
    ReveniolElyrrionEldrazorIsolationist???
    OrophinChraceEllinillIsolationist???
    ThyriolanSapheryHoethIsolationistMagic HouseConsider Waystones important. Against human involvement.
    EchtelionSapheryHoethIsolationistMagic HouseLook down upon humanity
    YavannaAvelornIshaIsolationist???
    MirielNagarytheVaulIsolationistCraftersControl the Vaul Priesthood, giving them a hold over high level crafting. Interested in Dwarf craft. Afraid of competition.
    MalforricAvelornAsuryanIsolationistWard of SunTwo votes. Control the Festival of Games. Influence the Champion. Most isolationist house. Second to the Queen in power.
    Ward of the SunLaurelornAsuryanIsolationistGovernmentThe defence is managed by Lady Delynna of House Malforric, but the Ward is ruled by the High Council and Queen as it is the center of government which contains the capital of Tor Lithanel.
    Source for much of this table.
     
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    • Boney said:
    enough to try to mash Khazalid and Eltharin together into a suitable wordplay, and manage each time to land upon something that could easily come across as an insult if it wasn't being translated by someone being very careful to avoid exactly that.
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    Note to self, do not allow Thorek to learn Eltharin?
    Boney said:
    "Would they object to us digging out a few levels of sub-basements?"

    "I'm afraid so. The root networks under the city are apparently quite substantial and considered very necessary."

    He sighs. "Then we'll just have to endure."
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    The things he does for the KA.
     
    Codex said:
    This shocked me. Laurelorn doesn't have just the Grey Lords, but they still have their first Champion? You barely hear about anyone this old in Ulthuan, but Laurelorn has several of them. Even Ariel and Orion in Athel Loren have the excuse of being demigods, but I doubt this Arbiter is a demigod himself. What is it in the water giving them so many long lived people?
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    I suspect it's called "not getting invaded by Malekith every couple-few Elven generations" relative to Ulthuan, and "not being ground zero for half of the major Beastmen horde attacks" relative to Athel Loren. While Laurelorn clearly does have its own security concerns, you can't really pull out many examples of a really major threat taking a solid run at them. Elves seem to be similar to the Dwarves in that their eldest members tend to also be their most powerful; while that does make them harder to kill, it also guarantees they will be on the front lines in every major conflict and that they will be near the top of the enemy's priority targets list. So if you're constantly getting dragged into major conflicts, well, over time attrition becomes something closer to a guarantee than a threat. Over a sufficient span of time any non-zero probability becomes a certainty, and all that.

    And Tor Lithanel in particular seems to be doubly insulated; Laurelorn as a whole doesn't seem to get targeted as often, and then on top of that Tor Lithanel seems to use the Forestborn as ablative armor most of the time (to describe the arrangement cynically). Hence, a lot fewer opportunities for attrition to strike down the elders of Tor Lithanel.
     
    Codex said:
    Where do they get all of these resources? Like, I get the silver, it was already explained. But Marble, obsidian, gold etc. it seems like they never run out of building materials of all kinds but I don't think they would have any mines? There are no mountains anywhere near them. Do the hills contain all the necessary
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    Andres110 said:
    Where high elves and wood elves get their mineral resources from is never explained. The closest we get to a proper explanation is in Age of Sigmar where it's explained the Sylvaneth get their metals from drawing them out of the earth with tree roots. As you can see, that's not very close to a proper explanation.
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    While also not a complete answer - small deposits can go a very long way if your urban center's population(which is the bit that actually uses all this stuff) is strictly regulated.

    I'd bet they do have actual mines and quarries though, just small, discreet ones. You don't need a lot to supply a small population, heck, if the city is geographically constrained a lot of their stuff might still be built from the product of dwarf trade(and excuses some of the constraints - they can maintain the standard of living by choosing not to grow their urban centers).
    Codex said:
    What's amazing about this is that Thorek outright admits a part of the fault lies with the Dwarfs here for the War of Vengeance. He says "if we paid more attention to Elven politics". That places the blame on the Dwarfs, not the Elves, which I find very intriguing. Thorek definitely realises that the blame for the war doesn't rest solely on the Elves, and he seems set to not make those same mistakes again.

    This is what draws me to him. He doesn't think his ancestors and society is infallible, and he actively tries to make it better and not make those mistakes himself. Very admirable, especially considering he's old enough to be set in his ways.
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    I'm not sure it's admitting fault exactly.
    Thorek's angle seems to be based on the idea that the elves are fiddly people and they should be more closely watched to make sure you're bonking the right lot when they inevitably do something crazy and nonsensical.

    Correct attribution of Grudges is pretty important.
     
    Fayhem said:
    I suspect it's called "not getting invaded by Malekith every couple-few Elven generations" relative to Ulthuan, and "not being ground zero for half of the major Beastmen horde attacks" relative to Athel Loren. While Laurelorn clearly does have its own security concerns, you can't really pull out many examples of a really major threat taking a solid run at them. Elves seem to be similar to the Dwarves in that their eldest members tend to also be their most powerful; while that does make them harder to kill, it also guarantees they will be on the front lines in every major conflict and that they will be near the top of the enemy's priority targets list. So if you're constantly getting dragged into major conflicts, well, over time attrition becomes something closer to a guarantee than a threat. Over a sufficient span of time any non-zero probability becomes a certainty, and all that.

    And Tor Lithanel in particular seems to be doubly insulated; Laurelorn as a whole doesn't seem to get targeted as often, and then on top of that Tor Lithanel seems to use the Forestborn as ablative armor most of the time (to describe the arrangement cynically). Hence, a lot fewer opportunities for attrition to strike down the elders of Tor Lithanel.
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    Yeah but here's the thing. Elven lifespan is heavily variable, but most elves still die of old age. Three of the Phoenix Kings died of old age, and none of them were as old as Yadoh is. Boney has said before that Elves and Dwarves operate similarly, where they have a limited lifespan that can be extended in a similar manner to Dwarves. So not being killed isn't the only factor for a person living very long, they need to have something else. Maybe an immense determination and refusal to die like Kragg, or magical life extension like Morathi/Malekith.

    Many elves die of old age long before they get anywhere near Yadoh's age.
     
    Codex said:
    Yeah but here's the thing. Elven lifespan is heavily variable, but most elves still die of old age. Three of the Phoenix Kings died of old age, and none of them were as old as Yadoh is. Boney has said before that Elves and Dwarves operate similarly, where they have a limited lifespan that can be extended in a similar manner to Dwarves. So not being killed isn't the only factor for a person living very long, they need to have something else. Maybe an immense determination and refusal to die like Kragg, or magical life extension like Morathi/Malekith.

    Many elves die of old age long before they get anywhere near Yadoh's age.
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    Right. But in Ulthuan and Athel Loren, those few elves who COULD live to be Yadoh's age... probably still won't, because they'll die from a terminal case of getting murderized first. Most elves in Laurelorn aren't living that long either, they just have fewer attritional pressures cutting down their (in my analysis) equally few potential candidates for that kind of longevity. That's what I'm saying.
     
    fictionfan said:
    Alric should go and clear out a Dwarfhold. We have shown it to be a tried and proven strategy.
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    Or he might get eaten by something large and toothy, win/win. :V

    Seriously though I hope the Grey College is watching his antics, just in case he tips over from politicking to something more dangerous, there is a lot of that stuff to go around for the desperate.

    Also it is nice seeing Thorek being restrained and diplomatic as it is possible for a living ancestor to be and I hope this is the start of pulling the Vaul worshipers onto the side of contact with the outside world. That majority is rather slim I fear.
     
    Boney said:
    The position of Champion is linked to Asuryan like a sort of inverse Everqueen, which suggests a possible source of Yadoh's longevity.
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    It appeals to me that you can actually work hard to achieve such a vaunted position and be genuinely blessed by your god, and you can't just rest on your laurels because the competitions happens every four years so you have to keep yourself in shape and make sure you don't lose your edge.

    It's unfortunate that like nearly all things, it gets messed with through politics since now a single Major House dominates the preparations of the festival. We really need to start investigating Malforric, because I'm not sure Kadoh will stay in his position forever if they're determined to kick him out of the position because he's too aligned to the Queen.
     
    Codex said:
    What's amazing about this is that Thorek outright admits a part of the fault lies with the Dwarfs here for the War of Vengeance. He says "if we paid more attention to Elven politics". That places the blame on the Dwarfs, not the Elves, which I find very intriguing. Thorek definitely realises that the blame for the war doesn't rest solely on the Elves, and he seems set to not make those same mistakes again.

    This is what draws me to him. He doesn't think his ancestors and society is infallible, and he actively tries to make it better and not make those mistakes himself. Very admirable, especially considering he's old enough to be set in his ways.
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    My read of him is that he's very much set in his ways, it's just that his ways are pretty good. (Mostly at least. Trying to get back at Middenheim dwarfs for something their ancestors did thousands of years ago isn't good.)
     
    Andres110 said:
    My read of him is that he's very much set in his ways, it's just that his ways are pretty good. (Mostly at least. Trying to get back at Middenheim dwarfs for something their ancestors did thousands of years ago isn't good.)
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    Eh, I do not think that any dwarf old or young would ever think that the mere passage of time can erase guilt upon a line. like I think that is foundational to what a grudge is, or even more so to the impulse beneath that cultural artifact that may be as old as dwarfs themselves.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Eh, I do not think that any dwarf old or young would ever think that the mere passage of time can erase guilt upon a line. like I think that is foundational to what a grudge is, or even more so to the impulse beneath that cultural artifact that may be as old as dwarfs themselves.
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    Just because it's common throughout dwarf culture doesn't mean Thorek's attitude towards the Middenheimers is good.
     
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