Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Heck, I'd be happy to be a Dragon's familiar. Sounds intresting.
Both Chaos Sorcerers and Necromancers are capable of creating artificial familiars, and Chaos Sorcerers can form Familiar bonds with lesser Daemons. It's theorized by some that Druchii Beastmasters use something similar to animal familiars to be able to break even the unruliest of creatures to their will, and the bonds between Dragon Mages and Dragons might also be similar.
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Deriving Lore - a Tinkerer's Quest
- Location
- Earth
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MoneyB said:
oliveolave said:
Blueshirt Squadron said:
mathmage said:
UnImagined said:
ualg said:
Lexicon said:
MoneyB said:
Blueshirt Squadron said:
towelboy42 said:
mathmage said:
UnImagined said:
MoneyB said:
Blueshirt Squadron said:
mathmage said:
towelboy42 said:
oliveolave said:
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- Location
- Earth
Accidentally posted an incomplete version earlier. Hope everybody enjoys Adela Quest! I couldn't quite manage to get fake threadmarks or reactions working, but I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out, if we can ignore mobile.
Credits to @owrtho 's False Forum Formatting Author Resource for the layout.
Profile images either taken from previous ones or from Replicate's AI Generator, with the exception of Blueshirt Squdron, whose tank comes from tankpit
Credits to @owrtho 's False Forum Formatting Author Resource for the layout.
Profile images either taken from previous ones or from Replicate's AI Generator, with the exception of Blueshirt Squdron, whose tank comes from tankpit
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- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
squint
Adela has a brother?
Adela has a brother?
- Location
- Utrecht
Adela has this:
She has all the relatives she can handle, and then some
- Location
- Earth
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
your fictional version of me has no right being this much funnier than i am wtf
It has reached the nerdotheosis. You have not.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I enjoyed this a lot. Great work. I wonder why Lexicon likes Mathilde so much 🤔
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This was very fun to read. I don't remember there being drama about Adela's aunt, though- could I get a reminder?
Cool Negaquest. Lots of work went into this one.
- Location
- Earth
There wasn't any. The first we heard about her was in Turn 38. But we did give Adela a warning in Turn 33 about her family's takeover of the school, and in-universe to Adela Quest, there was a great deal of paranoia about how to react to the scary Grey LM offering vaguely ominous statements.
- Location
- Brazil
Wow, seeing the ol' red and gold avatar sure is a trip down memory lane.
- Location
- Earth
@Boney How does Mindhole interact with memories that have other people in them? For example, let's say the target remembers being at a group meeting where the Grey Wizard brought up some evidence, and a third person, using said evidence as a base, voiced aloud some deductions and finished with a conclusion that everyone at the meeting views as the most important part of it. After being hit with Mindhole, would the target be able to remember the train of logic (that came from the Grey Wizard's contributions) that led to the conclusion, only the conclusion itself, or forget the meeting entirely?
They'd forget the Grey Wizard bringing it up and would be confused if they thought about the train of logic because everything the memory of the Grey Wizard saying things would be gone, but would still remember the rest of the meeting, including the conclusion.
Alright, here's the promised thoughts on warden gods. It got longer than I intended. Disclaimer: most of what we know is filtered through Karag Dum's negative view of them.
Some of the other races probably had wardens as well. Borek certainly thinks so, since he called Norsca "another prison." We don't know how many each race had. They probably weren't shared between races, though.
Cor-Dum, at least, managed to carry on. He first took the name and/or form (I'm not sure what the difference is, for a god) of Khsar, then Kavzar, and then Morghur before Karag Dum brought him back in from the cold. In theory, the others could be revived with enough effort, and some probably have been. Karag Dum thinks Morghur was the least bad option, though.
We don't know what happened to other races' wardens. They might have died like the dwarf wardens, or rebranded into a new pantheon like Khsar. But if they still had followers, or another source of power, they might have survived relatively unchanged. Maybe we can even guess some of them.
First off, I think Rhya might be a warden. Or part of one, or directly descended from one, depending on how you want to interpret her relationship with Ishernos. Her portfolio isn't exact, but it's a decent fit. She has a history going all the way back to the Old Faith, and the worship of the Earth Mother. If we believe Deathfang's claim that she's not Isha, she's probably not an Elven god at all. But most importantly, Radixashen was able to join with her, which suggests she's connected to the same Old One city. It's possible that the two had to combine forces in order to survive Norsca's collapse and fall to Chaos. (There's probably some implications here about her husband Taal and/or the Obernarn stone, but I don't have anything coherent put together.)
Now, time for some wild speculation. We suspect that ogres and halflings came from the same Old One city. What if the ogres were dismissed as failures, but then rose up in rebellion much like the dwarfs did? They succeededand defeated the "sky-titans" (Old Ones?), overthrew their old gods, and drove the halflings west to the Old World. Sadly, by rejecting their wardens, they left themselves open to corruption by the Great Maw. But the wardens hadn't lost all their followers. Maybe instead, they went west as well, and still make up the modern Halfling pantheon.
1. What am I talking about?
Before the dwarfs escaped from captivity in the Southlands and adopted the Ancestor Gods, they had a different pantheon. These gods served as teachers, and also as wardens, in both the "protector" sense and the "prison guard" sense. (I'll just call them "wardens" from here on.) One of these was known as Cor-Dum. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of detail about what exactly they were beyond "gods," or how the Old Ones created or controlled them.Some of the other races probably had wardens as well. Borek certainly thinks so, since he called Norsca "another prison." We don't know how many each race had. They probably weren't shared between races, though.
2. What happened to them?
Even before the dwarfs rebelled, their wardens' numbers "dwindled over time." Maybe they died as the Old Ones themselves died. Maybe they were called away to the front against Chaos. Maybe the dwarfs had been branded a dead end by the Old Ones, and the gods were turned off to save power. In any case, most or all of them were gone by the beginning of the rebellion, and none survived the end of it. They were about as dead as gods can get... which turns out to be only mostly dead.Cor-Dum, at least, managed to carry on. He first took the name and/or form (I'm not sure what the difference is, for a god) of Khsar, then Kavzar, and then Morghur before Karag Dum brought him back in from the cold. In theory, the others could be revived with enough effort, and some probably have been. Karag Dum thinks Morghur was the least bad option, though.
We don't know what happened to other races' wardens. They might have died like the dwarf wardens, or rebranded into a new pantheon like Khsar. But if they still had followers, or another source of power, they might have survived relatively unchanged. Maybe we can even guess some of them.
3. Which gods could have been a warden?
This is a pretty hard question to answer. Protecting or teaching their followers is a pretty common theme with gods, after all. And the wardens' names and domains can change, possibly more than once. They are not bound to a single race, nation, or group of followers. We can probably at least rule out ascended mortals like Sigmar, or ascended spirits of the land like Manhorak. I'm not sure if we can rule out gods with parents, since those relationships can be contested and messy.3a. Possible dwarf wardens
With that said, there are some interesting possibilities for dwarf wardens, keeping in mind that they have to be pretty nasty gods to be worse than Morghur:- Hashut. This one's easy, Borek pretty much said it. Like Karag Dum, the Fire Dwarfs turned to their old wardens to save themselves from destruction by Chaos. Borek also seems to think that someone (Hashut? His followers? Chaos?) manipulated the dwarfs into settling there in the first place.
- The Great Horned Rat. Kavzar let his betrayer close enough to hurt him and become the Rat, even after going through the fall of two pantheons. This suggests that he was already familiar with them. Maybe he was trying to help a fellow warden onto their feet? The wiki also mentions a myth of Skavor, a minor dwarf ancestor god, who transformed into the first Skaven. It's not exact, but you can definitely read a connection into that.
- Sotek. The lizardmen mainly worship the Old Ones directly, and they aren't active the way gods are. But Sotek is different - coming along far later, only appearing in a single tablet, and actually taking action against enemies. Borek implied that the dwarfs in Lustria's Spine of Sotek might be quest canon. The timing allows for them to take Sotek's name across the Great Ocean, much like Hashut's followers took his name to the Dark Lands. That origin would explain the hatred for Skaven, doubly so if Sotek, the Horned Rat, and/or Cor-Dum once knew each other. And his need for sacrifices would explain why Karag Dum didn't call upon him. (I'm not sure any of this explains why Sotek was on the Obernarn stone, though.)
3b. Other possible wardens
What about wardens from other races? Well, there are a ton of candidates, and I don't want to get too fixated on explaining everything using a single data point. I'll just mention a couple, one reasonably sourced and one made of wild speculation.First off, I think Rhya might be a warden. Or part of one, or directly descended from one, depending on how you want to interpret her relationship with Ishernos. Her portfolio isn't exact, but it's a decent fit. She has a history going all the way back to the Old Faith, and the worship of the Earth Mother. If we believe Deathfang's claim that she's not Isha, she's probably not an Elven god at all. But most importantly, Radixashen was able to join with her, which suggests she's connected to the same Old One city. It's possible that the two had to combine forces in order to survive Norsca's collapse and fall to Chaos. (There's probably some implications here about her husband Taal and/or the Obernarn stone, but I don't have anything coherent put together.)
Now, time for some wild speculation. We suspect that ogres and halflings came from the same Old One city. What if the ogres were dismissed as failures, but then rose up in rebellion much like the dwarfs did? They succeeded
Sources
Borek's story, Deathfang's story, Deathfang on Rhya, and the Warhammer wiki (surely a paragon of accuracy, and definitely not filled with mistakes, outdated info and fanfiction).
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Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Going to just say it now, the Sky Titans were not the Old Ones. The Sky Titans are the original ancestors and true form of Giants, who have been left to dwindle in both numbers and individual stature due to inbreeding, malnutrition and other factors, like how nearly all giants spend as much of their lives as possible blackout drunk to dull the pain of gravity pulling on their massive bodies, presumably including during times of pregnancy for giantesses.
Yeah, that's more likely true. The story can work without it, but like I said, it's wild speculation either way.
- Location
- Earth
What about the Grey Wizard Mindholing the person making the deductions? Would they remember their conclusion as "I get a headache every time I think too hard about how I got to this, but it definitely makes sense", or "what did they put in my drink last night? I was speaking gibberish!"?
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
It was Tzeentch who orchestrated that whole debacle, so he probably convinced them in the first place.
Depends on whether the circumstances of the meeting have enough remaining context for the memories to remain intact and legible.
